bentley continental gt any good?

[IATM]

279 said:

300bhp/ton said:

LeeMad said:

dont forget, just because theyve dropped into your price range, theyre still a £100k car that will cost a lot to maintain.

Why do people believe this?? There are some expensive bits but also a lot of common parts from VAG plus its not made from pixie dust and unicorn bits. It's nuts and bolts like any other car.

Specialists will charge huge amounts for simple parts and charge high labour rates for simple work. If you are buying at the bottom of the market there is no point over paying for parts and labour.

You've been told before that your thoughts on cheap Continental ownership are wrong. People with actual experience of these cars have taken their time to try and educate you on the subject, and then you go back to posting the exact same rubbish just a few months later. You'd expect people to taken on board your experience and thoughts on a subject that they were clearly wrong about and not expect them to forget it readily, why can you not show the same common courtesy to others? To be honest, its fking rude.

Moving on...

My thoughts as a former Bentley technician.

Older (04-05) cars aren't nearly as nice a place to be as a later car (06+). I found the leather in every 04-05 car to be shiny and nasty no matter how many miles were or were not on the clock, and bearing in mind that there is leather everywhere it'd be enough to put me off owning one and to cap it off they aren't as well screwed together as the later cars (cliche, but somehow true).

All GT series cars have a underbonnet plenum design that allows leafs to collect on the bulkhead. 04-05 cars had a special issue of having a badly designed plenum drain which meant leafs would easily block and cause the plenum to fill up with water. Did I mention that at the bottom of this plenum prone to flooding with water plenum contains a key electrical loom? Oh, and the outrageously expensive engine control modules live there as well, then directly below in the cabin below the passenger side carpet lives the Front body control module, and yes, it is about as expensive as it sounds, and yes, it is accessible to that water pooling above it in the plenum if you're particularly unlucky. If you're very unlucky the corrosion has been known to travel all over the loom on more than one occasion. And that's how a £20,000 Bentley racks up a £20,000 repair bill.

For anybody looking at any 04-05 GT I cannot stress how important it is to lift the bonnet, lift up the plenum and have a good look (with a torch) to see A) If the plenum has been kept free of leaves, B) If water is pooling and C) If the slice loom is corroded. No A or B does not necessarily mean no C, so have a look. I cannot stress this enough, if you're going to do anything before handing over your money, do this.

The fix requires half the interior to be stripped out in order to get the HVAC unit out, replacing the loom and carrying out the drain mod. Actually doing the fix takes all of 2 minutes, but it sits underneath the HVAC unit and thus, needs the interior stripping. If my memory serves me rightly, you'll be lucky to get change from £5,000, and that's the best case scenario.

Oh, and unless there is a receipt clearing outlining that the slice loom has been replaced, it hasn't and is prone to this issue happening. I've been asked to look over a few cheap GTs on the behalf of people in the past. Every Salesmen I've spoken to at prestige used car dealers seems to think that it was a part of some sort of Bentley recall which it certainly was not, so do take anyone's word for it.

As i mentioned, the drain was improved on 06 cars, but also the slice loom was relocated, so it is not so much of a worry.

They'll consume suspension bushes quicker than the original owners would have consumed champagne and caviar. Without a doubt top suspension arms and Anti roll bar links were the most common MOT failure item. If you said you got more than 25,000 miles out of a set, I’d call you a liar. If you got 15,000 out a set, I’d say you had a good run. My memory is terrible, but I think the arms alone (bushes not available separately) came to £600 for all 4 (two each side) (and from my experience no 300BHP, you cannot use the arms from a Phaeton) and bottom arms will run about a grand each (and there are four the them, but lucky they rarely then to go all at once). The antiroll bar links however are surprisingly cheap and easy to fit. Then you’ve got to align the car, and that is a nightmare on its own. Continental GTs are incredibly camber conscious cars and even when set within manufacture sets on a Top of the liner laser 4 wheel aligner, they’ll pull to the left. A LOT of fiddling about needs to be done to get them to drive nice, not one for Phil down the arches with the Dunlop gauges

The W12 is a very strong reliable engine mechanically; unfortunately the bits bolted to it aren’t so reliable. Many jobs that would be ‘ordinary’ on other cars GT automatically have £5,000+ slapped onto the price on a Conti car simply because of the packaging of the W12. Starter motor, some (or all, depending on who you speak to) Oxygen sensors, turbochargers, etc require the engine to be removed.

Look out for general electrical issues. Nothing in particular, but if you find a gadget doing something funky assume it is going to be a job for a specialist seeing how most control modules need programming with the correct diagnostic tools. Plug in and play does not apply.
The process might have changed since I last heard, but I believe the TPM sensors AND control module still need to be replaced about every 5 years on early cars. Easily a 4 figure job, nearly that in parts alone.

Every 4th year service is a spark plug change which requires the intake plenum to be removed to gain access to the plugs which means a lot of potential breakages if you don’t know what you’re doing. Every 6th year is the hydraulic service. Be carefully who you take it to, cross thread the wrong pipe and the engine needs to come out to replace it .

Would I recommend one? An early 04-05 car? Not a bloody chance. They’re liabilities. I’d entertain a 06+ onwards car, with a proper Bentley approved warranty, but I would have to convince myself that they were a significantly nicer car than say a 6 series or XKR. A Conti does feel like a better place to be than the BMW or Jaguar, but not quite as night and day as you’d have perhaps hoped.

Any questions feel free to post them and I'll do my best to help .

Edited by 279 on Friday 21st June 04:15

Edited by 279 on Friday 21st June 04:16

Very useful post. Thank you for a honest insight.

[300bhp/ton]

Fox- said:

Krikkit said:

change the oil a bit cheaper at an independent rather than dealer.

False economy, surely the effect on the history of corner cutting and scrimping will knock more than the price difference off the value of a £30-40k Bentley?

How is buying the same oil and paying someone less money to do the same thing actually scrimping?

BTW the op said 100,000 mile GT's which means £20-25k cars

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...

And they are going to lose money no matter how you maintain them.

[dave_s13]

279 said:

Good stuff

It's not a porky boxster then is it!

[LuS1fer]

Question for 279:

I've never been that taken by the CGT but have always found the Bentley Arnage an enticing proposition for around £25k.
I believe these use the 4.4 V8.
Are these any better or worse than a CGT?

[300bhp/ton]

Piersman2 said:

It's also worth bearing in mind that these are massively complex machines with 4 wheel drive etc... Imagine your gearbox going kaput, it doesn't bear thinking about how much it would cost to get sorted.

My first XJR lunched it's gearbox, £1500 later all sorted. I dread to even start to consider the size of the bill on a Continental.

You do realise that

a) Bentley don't make the gearbox
b) Other cars use the same AWD system.



The platform and AWD system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_D_pl...


And the gearbox is made by ZF it's the 6HP26 unit used in things like an A8 or an S6, even a Phaeton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_6HP26_transmission...

[mercfunder]

Jimmy No Hands said:

http://www.pmcuk.com/content.asp?id=89

Breakdown of a quote for new brakes (well discs & pads) all around on a Bentley CGT.


Comes to... £1650.

Doesn't seem that bad for a premium car, surely if you were buying a Conti or similar you would go in with your eyes open and expect bills of this size?

[dave_s13]

300bhp/ton said:

You do realise that

a) Bentley don't make the gearbox
b) Other cars use the same AWD system.



The platform and AWD system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_D_pl...


And the gearbox is made by ZF it's the 6HP26 unit used in things like an A8 or an S6, even a Phaeton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_6HP26_transmission...

It will still cost a b@stding fortune though.

You really need to accept that you canot run a Bentley on the same budget as a "normal" car...you just sodding well can't do it.

[Herbs]

Citing Mondials and 308's are different as they come from an era where a car was a car regardless of badge - the modern car needs a computer to connect to it and represents a completely different proposition than it did 10-20 years ago.

In theory yes, it could be run for a bit more than a high end BMW but the baulk possibility on a failed part is on a whole different level and to advise something otherwise is morally wrong.

[Herbs]

BTW if you could only afford to put Nankangs on a GT then it probably isn't the car you should be looking to run

[300bhp/ton]

279 said:

You've been told before that your thoughts on cheap Continental ownership are wrong. People with actual experience of these cars have taken their time to try and educate you on the subject, and then you go back to posting the exact same rubbish just a few months later. You'd expect people to taken on board your experience and thoughts on a subject that they were clearly wrong about and not expect them to forget it readily, why can you not show the same common courtesy to others? To be honest, its fking rude.

I had hoped this would be a polite rational conversation. But it appears I am once again wrong.


I have never said they are not expensive - I have just said they are not as expensive as is believed. FFS just look at the first reply in this thread, a person convinced it will still cost as much as a £100,000 car to upkeep.

Logic says, if this were true, then there would be no used ones below £100,000. Because if you needed that kind of money to maintain one, you'd simply buy a new one.

Evidence shows there are many for £20-25k available, that people are running and maintaining. Logic again suggests that most people owning these cars are not millionaires, and therefore the running costs can be cheaper. Or at least no worse than any other high performance vehicle that also costs £25k to buy today. - which really has been the crux of what I've been trying to post.


So there is nothing "fking rude" as you put it, about saying what I've just said.

[300bhp/ton]

dave_s13 said:

300bhp/ton said:

You do realise that

a) Bentley don't make the gearbox
b) Other cars use the same AWD system.



The platform and AWD system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_D_pl...


And the gearbox is made by ZF it's the 6HP26 unit used in things like an A8 or an S6, even a Phaeton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_6HP26_transmission...

It will still cost a b@stding fortune though.

You really need to accept that you canot run a Bentley on the same budget as a "normal" car...you just sodding well can't do it.

Sometimes I think nobody on PH reads.

I've never said "normal" car. But if the box goes on the Bentley, then it would likely cost the SAME to rebuild or replace as it would on a 2003 Audi A8 that uses the same gearbox.

[Krikkit]

doogz said:

300bhp/ton said:

Logic says, if this were true, then there would be no used ones below £100,000. Because if you needed that kind of money to maintain one, you'd simply buy a new one.

I'm not sure what that is, but it's not logic.

Agreed.

300: What electrical complexity? 50-odd ECU's needing specialist/dealer recoding when things go wrong and a highly complicated body and interior hiding them all away...

Some parts are shared - your point about a gearbox is a good one, but how much would you need to spend to get it fitted? I can't imagine it's a simple task to strip a GT down to get the box out, even compared to an A8.

[300bhp/ton]

Herbs said:

Citing Mondials and 308's are different as they come from an era where a car was a car regardless of badge

Actually it was directly answering a question that someone asked.

Herbs said:

- the modern car needs a computer to connect to it and represents a completely different proposition than it did 10-20 years ago.

This is true, although the GT will be OBDII compliant. For other software needs I assume (but don't know) that it'll interface with the same software you'd use on an A8, Phaeton type of thing. Pricey, but something that is attainable or accessible.

Herbs said:

In theory yes, it could be run for a bit more than a high end BMW but the baulk possibility on a failed part is on a whole different level and to advise something otherwise is morally wrong.

Then how do people manage to run these? Do you honestly think these £20k examples are going to go up in price dramatically, or maybe continue to drop in value.


I still stand by the fact that if you are considering a turbocharged Porsche, M BMW, AMG Merc then the costs "could" indeed be quite similar over a period of years ownership. And when you factor in depreciation on newer lesser vehicles, then the total cost of ownership might be very similar to that of many other vehicles.

[dave_s13]

300bhp/ton said:

Sometimes I think nobody on PH reads.

I've never said "normal" car. But if the box goes on the Bentley, then it would likely cost the SAME to rebuild or replace as it would on a 2003 Audi A8 that uses the same gearbox.

Sorry chap but I would strongly suggest that it would cost a hell of a lot more.

Not evidence based, granted but there you go.

I agree with you on the other thread about running a boxster though. I would dare buy one of those. Not a bentley though, it would look completely tw@ttish parked outside my 3 bed semi.

[Fast Bug]

300bhp/ton said:

It's also worth noting there are many older Bentleys, Turbo R's about. These have been kicking around the £10k mark for ages. And they where equally as pricey as the GT when new. But people seem perfectly able to maintain them without needing the income to buy a £100,000 car.

I'm no mechanical expert, and have never confessed to being one. But I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say that the W12 engine might be a little bit more complex than the 6.75 V8 which first saw service in the back of Noah's Ark...

[300bhp/ton]

dave_s13 said:

Sorry chap but I would strongly suggest that it would cost a hell of a lot more.

Not evidence based, granted but there you go.

ok, so ignoring evidence if you have none. Why do you think it'd cost more? In what areas?

I understand if you went to a Bentley specialist they would likely charge more an hour than maybe a VW specialist. But there is no need to do this most likely.

Same with parts, a Bentley specialist would likely charge you more for oil and consumables than a VW one would for the same parts. Largely this is where there is a lot of variance in pricing.


Personally I'd probably get a quote from an automatic transmission specialist to rebuild a 6HP26 ZF unit and go from there. I might even get quotes for an Audi A8 with that box first, just to get a feel on if any Bentley tax is being applied.

[300bhp/ton]

Krikkit said:

300: What electrical complexity? 50-odd ECU's needing specialist/dealer recoding when things go wrong

Doesn't a p38a Range Rover have 26 or so ECU's? I'm sure it's complex, but when you look at the actual systems on the Bentley it doesn't do anything above and beyond what a top spec Audi does and likely uses many of the same bits.

Krikkit said:

and a highly complicated body and interior hiding them all away...

The interior is plush yes and has lovely wood. But is it really any more complex than most modern cars? I'm pretty sure screws and clips hold it in the car too.

I don't know about the body, what bits of it are complex that would likely cause additional cost for maintenance? Headlight units I suspect are silly money and Bentley only, but one would hope you would only ever need to replace one under an insurance claim. Which means the actual cost of it doesn't really matter.

Krikkit said:

Some parts are shared - your point about a gearbox is a good one, but how much would you need to spend to get it fitted? I can't imagine it's a simple task to strip a GT down to get the box out, even compared to an A8.

No idea how easy it is to get the box out. The platform is shared with other vehicles, so I suspect it's a similar process. And I'm not convinced it would really be any additional work over removing the gearbox from an Audi RS6.

But again, I would have thought this isn't routine maintenance and you'd be fairly unlucky if yo had to do this anyhow.

[williamp]

300bhp/ton said:

dave_s13 said:

300bhp/ton said:

You do realise that

a) Bentley don't make the gearbox
b) Other cars use the same AWD system.



The platform and AWD system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_D_pl...


And the gearbox is made by ZF it's the 6HP26 unit used in things like an A8 or an S6, even a Phaeton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_6HP26_transmission...

It will still cost a b@stding fortune though.

You really need to accept that you canot run a Bentley on the same budget as a "normal" car...you just sodding well can't do it.

Sometimes I think nobody on PH reads.

I've never said "normal" car. But if the box goes on the Bentley, then it would likely cost the SAME to rebuild or replace as it would on a 2003 Audi A8 that uses the same gearbox.

To rebuild yes, but maybe not to replace. Maybe access is a problem. Maybe more gubbins needs to be moved. May need a special tool.

[longblackcoat]

It's not the servicing you need to worry about, and, as 300 points out, the actual gearbox, say, could be attended to by a trade specialist.

But the plenum issue mentioned by 279 was a real eye-opener for me. All cars have their quirks, but as design flaws go, that one's right up there with CX camchain tensioners, TVR finger follower and Porsche IMS.

To answer the OP: yes, it'll ruin you. Don't wall away ....RUN!

[300bhp/ton]

Fast Bug said:

I'm no mechanical expert, and have never confessed to being one. But I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say that the W12 engine might be a little bit more complex than the 6.75 V8 which first saw service in the back of Noah's Ark...

The 6.75 is twin turbocharged and uses electronic fuel injection. It might be of an older design, but I'm not sure it's actually that much less complex to maintain. Although I admit it is less sophisticated and uses less electronic senses, but BMW 123D is also far more complex in this regard too.

Also worth noting the RR V8 was used exclusively by RR. The W12 and derivatives are used in many more vehicles and share some common parts with older VAG engines. This means there is a wider more diverse usage of the W12.