bentley continental gt any good?
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
The 6.75 is twin turbocharged and uses electronic fuel injection. It might be of an older design, but I'm not sure it's actually that much less complex to maintain. Although I admit it is less sophisticated and uses less electronic senses, but BMW 123D is also far more complex in this regard too.
Also worth noting the RR V8 was used exclusively by RR. The W12 and derivatives are used in many more vehicles and share some common parts with older VAG engines. This means there is a wider more diverse usage of the W12.
The old unit was in production for many, many years as unsophisticated as they come, and I would doubt if it even has a quarter of the sensors as a CGT. And that's just the engine and ignoring the gearbox and 4x4 drive train.Also worth noting the RR V8 was used exclusively by RR. The W12 and derivatives are used in many more vehicles and share some common parts with older VAG engines. This means there is a wider more diverse usage of the W12.
But hey, much like the last Bentley thread you trampled all over and ignored the experts, you plough on regardless and think you can run one for £2.29 a year.
300, i sometime do agree with your assertions that most cars can be run on a shoestring budget, but sometimes you have to man up or back down.
The only way you will convince the large amount of people who all seem to have actual experience with GTs is by buying one, running it and proving them wrong.
The only way you will convince the large amount of people who all seem to have actual experience with GTs is by buying one, running it and proving them wrong.
so called said:
279 said:
You've been told before that your thoughts on cheap Continental ownership are wrong. People with actual experience of these cars have taken their time to try and educate you on the subject, and then you go back to posting the exact same rubbish just a few months later. You'd expect people to taken on board your experience and thoughts on a subject that they were clearly wrong about and not expect them to forget it readily, why can you not show the same common courtesy to others? To be honest, its f
king rude.
Moving on...
My thoughts as a former Bentley technician.
Older (04-05) cars aren't nearly as nice a place to be as a later car (06+). I found the leather in every 04-05 car to be shiny and nasty no matter how many miles were or were not on the clock, and bearing in mind that there is leather everywhere it'd be enough to put me off owning one and to cap it off they aren't as well screwed together as the later cars (cliche, but somehow true).
All GT series cars have a underbonnet plenum design that allows leafs to collect on the bulkhead. 04-05 cars had a special issue of having a badly designed plenum drain which meant leafs would easily block and cause the plenum to fill up with water. Did I mention that at the bottom of this plenum prone to flooding with water plenum contains a key electrical loom? Oh, and the outrageously expensive engine control modules live there as well, then directly below in the cabin below the passenger side carpet lives the Front body control module, and yes, it is about as expensive as it sounds, and yes, it is accessible to that water pooling above it in the plenum if you're particularly unlucky. If you're very unlucky the corrosion has been known to travel all over the loom on more than one occasion. And that's how a £20,000 Bentley racks up a £20,000 repair bill.
For anybody looking at any 04-05 GT I cannot stress how important it is to lift the bonnet, lift up the plenum and have a good look (with a torch) to see A) If the plenum has been kept free of leaves, B) If water is pooling and C) If the slice loom is corroded. No A or B does not necessarily mean no C, so have a look. I cannot stress this enough, if you're going to do anything before handing over your money, do this.
The fix requires half the interior to be stripped out in order to get the HVAC unit out, replacing the loom and carrying out the drain mod. Actually doing the fix takes all of 2 minutes, but it sits underneath the HVAC unit and thus, needs the interior stripping. If my memory serves me rightly, you'll be lucky to get change from £5,000, and that's the best case scenario.
Oh, and unless there is a receipt clearing outlining that the slice loom has been replaced, it hasn't and is prone to this issue happening. I've been asked to look over a few cheap GTs on the behalf of people in the past. Every Salesmen I've spoken to at prestige used car dealers seems to think that it was a part of some sort of Bentley recall which it certainly was not, so do take anyone's word for it.
As i mentioned, the drain was improved on 06 cars, but also the slice loom was relocated, so it is not so much of a worry.
They'll consume suspension bushes quicker than the original owners would have consumed champagne and caviar. Without a doubt top suspension arms and Anti roll bar links were the most common MOT failure item. If you said you got more than 25,000 miles out of a set, I’d call you a liar. If you got 15,000 out a set, I’d say you had a good run. My memory is terrible, but I think the arms alone (bushes not available separately) came to £600 for all 4 (two each side) (and from my experience no 300BHP, you cannot use the arms from a Phaeton) and bottom arms will run about a grand each (and there are four the them, but lucky they rarely then to go all at once). The antiroll bar links however are surprisingly cheap and easy to fit. Then you’ve got to align the car, and that is a nightmare on its own. Continental GTs are incredibly camber conscious cars and even when set within manufacture sets on a Top of the liner laser 4 wheel aligner, they’ll pull to the left. A LOT of fiddling about needs to be done to get them to drive nice, not one for Phil down the arches with the Dunlop gauges
The W12 is a very strong reliable engine mechanically; unfortunately the bits bolted to it aren’t so reliable. Many jobs that would be ‘ordinary’ on other cars GT automatically have £5,000+ slapped onto the price on a Conti car simply because of the packaging of the W12. Starter motor, some (or all, depending on who you speak to) Oxygen sensors, turbochargers, etc require the engine to be removed.
Look out for general electrical issues. Nothing in particular, but if you find a gadget doing something funky assume it is going to be a job for a specialist seeing how most control modules need programming with the correct diagnostic tools. Plug in and play does not apply.
The process might have changed since I last heard, but I believe the TPM sensors AND control module still need to be replaced about every 5 years on early cars. Easily a 4 figure job, nearly that in parts alone.
Every 4th year service is a spark plug change which requires the intake plenum to be removed to gain access to the plugs which means a lot of potential breakages if you don’t know what you’re doing. Every 6th year is the hydraulic service. Be carefully who you take it to, cross thread the wrong pipe and the engine needs to come out to replace it.
Would I recommend one? An early 04-05 car? Not a bloody chance. They’re liabilities. I’d entertain a 06+ onwards car, with a proper Bentley approved warranty, but I would have to convince myself that they were a significantly nicer car than say a 6 series or XKR. A Conti does feel like a better place to be than the BMW or Jaguar, but not quite as night and day as you’d have perhaps hoped.
Any questions feel free to post them and I'll do my best to help
.
279, top quality post.king rude.Moving on...
My thoughts as a former Bentley technician.
Older (04-05) cars aren't nearly as nice a place to be as a later car (06+). I found the leather in every 04-05 car to be shiny and nasty no matter how many miles were or were not on the clock, and bearing in mind that there is leather everywhere it'd be enough to put me off owning one and to cap it off they aren't as well screwed together as the later cars (cliche, but somehow true).
All GT series cars have a underbonnet plenum design that allows leafs to collect on the bulkhead. 04-05 cars had a special issue of having a badly designed plenum drain which meant leafs would easily block and cause the plenum to fill up with water. Did I mention that at the bottom of this plenum prone to flooding with water plenum contains a key electrical loom? Oh, and the outrageously expensive engine control modules live there as well, then directly below in the cabin below the passenger side carpet lives the Front body control module, and yes, it is about as expensive as it sounds, and yes, it is accessible to that water pooling above it in the plenum if you're particularly unlucky. If you're very unlucky the corrosion has been known to travel all over the loom on more than one occasion. And that's how a £20,000 Bentley racks up a £20,000 repair bill.
For anybody looking at any 04-05 GT I cannot stress how important it is to lift the bonnet, lift up the plenum and have a good look (with a torch) to see A) If the plenum has been kept free of leaves, B) If water is pooling and C) If the slice loom is corroded. No A or B does not necessarily mean no C, so have a look. I cannot stress this enough, if you're going to do anything before handing over your money, do this.
The fix requires half the interior to be stripped out in order to get the HVAC unit out, replacing the loom and carrying out the drain mod. Actually doing the fix takes all of 2 minutes, but it sits underneath the HVAC unit and thus, needs the interior stripping. If my memory serves me rightly, you'll be lucky to get change from £5,000, and that's the best case scenario.
Oh, and unless there is a receipt clearing outlining that the slice loom has been replaced, it hasn't and is prone to this issue happening. I've been asked to look over a few cheap GTs on the behalf of people in the past. Every Salesmen I've spoken to at prestige used car dealers seems to think that it was a part of some sort of Bentley recall which it certainly was not, so do take anyone's word for it.
As i mentioned, the drain was improved on 06 cars, but also the slice loom was relocated, so it is not so much of a worry.
They'll consume suspension bushes quicker than the original owners would have consumed champagne and caviar. Without a doubt top suspension arms and Anti roll bar links were the most common MOT failure item. If you said you got more than 25,000 miles out of a set, I’d call you a liar. If you got 15,000 out a set, I’d say you had a good run. My memory is terrible, but I think the arms alone (bushes not available separately) came to £600 for all 4 (two each side) (and from my experience no 300BHP, you cannot use the arms from a Phaeton) and bottom arms will run about a grand each (and there are four the them, but lucky they rarely then to go all at once). The antiroll bar links however are surprisingly cheap and easy to fit. Then you’ve got to align the car, and that is a nightmare on its own. Continental GTs are incredibly camber conscious cars and even when set within manufacture sets on a Top of the liner laser 4 wheel aligner, they’ll pull to the left. A LOT of fiddling about needs to be done to get them to drive nice, not one for Phil down the arches with the Dunlop gauges
The W12 is a very strong reliable engine mechanically; unfortunately the bits bolted to it aren’t so reliable. Many jobs that would be ‘ordinary’ on other cars GT automatically have £5,000+ slapped onto the price on a Conti car simply because of the packaging of the W12. Starter motor, some (or all, depending on who you speak to) Oxygen sensors, turbochargers, etc require the engine to be removed.
Look out for general electrical issues. Nothing in particular, but if you find a gadget doing something funky assume it is going to be a job for a specialist seeing how most control modules need programming with the correct diagnostic tools. Plug in and play does not apply.
The process might have changed since I last heard, but I believe the TPM sensors AND control module still need to be replaced about every 5 years on early cars. Easily a 4 figure job, nearly that in parts alone.
Every 4th year service is a spark plug change which requires the intake plenum to be removed to gain access to the plugs which means a lot of potential breakages if you don’t know what you’re doing. Every 6th year is the hydraulic service. Be carefully who you take it to, cross thread the wrong pipe and the engine needs to come out to replace it
. Would I recommend one? An early 04-05 car? Not a bloody chance. They’re liabilities. I’d entertain a 06+ onwards car, with a proper Bentley approved warranty, but I would have to convince myself that they were a significantly nicer car than say a 6 series or XKR. A Conti does feel like a better place to be than the BMW or Jaguar, but not quite as night and day as you’d have perhaps hoped.
Any questions feel free to post them and I'll do my best to help
.Edited by 279 on Friday 21st June 04:15
Edited by 279 on Friday 21st June 04:16
I've also been mulling over the GT for a couple of years now.
What would PH be without people like yourself sharing knowledge.
Much appreciated.
Cheers.
300bhp/ton said:
Fast Bug said:
I'm no mechanical expert, and have never confessed to being one. But I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say that the W12 engine might be a little bit more complex than the 6.75 V8 which first saw service in the back of Noah's Ark...
The 6.75 is twin turbocharged and uses electronic fuel injection. It might be of an older design, but I'm not sure it's actually that much less complex to maintain. Although I admit it is less sophisticated and uses less electronic senses, but BMW 123D is also far more complex in this regard too.Also worth noting the RR V8 was used exclusively by RR. The W12 and derivatives are used in many more vehicles and share some common parts with older VAG engines. This means there is a wider more diverse usage of the W12.
williamp said:
300bhp/ton said:
dave_s13 said:
300bhp/ton said:
You do realise that
a) Bentley don't make the gearbox
b) Other cars use the same AWD system.
The platform and AWD system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_D_pl...
And the gearbox is made by ZF it's the 6HP26 unit used in things like an A8 or an S6, even a Phaeton.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_6HP26_transmission...
It will still cost a b@stding fortune though.a) Bentley don't make the gearbox
b) Other cars use the same AWD system.
The platform and AWD system:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_D_pl...
And the gearbox is made by ZF it's the 6HP26 unit used in things like an A8 or an S6, even a Phaeton.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_6HP26_transmission...
You really need to accept that you canot run a Bentley on the same budget as a "normal" car...you just sodding well can't do it.
I've never said "normal" car. But if the box goes on the Bentley, then it would likely cost the SAME to rebuild or replace as it would on a 2003 Audi A8 that uses the same gearbox.
300bhp/ton said:
No idea how easy it is to get the box out. The platform is shared with other vehicles, so I suspect it's a similar process. And I'm not convinced it would really be any additional work over removing the gearbox from an Audi RS6.
But again, I would have thought this isn't routine maintenance and you'd be fairly unlucky if yo had to do this anyhow.
I'd say you were a nightmare to teach in schoolBut again, I would have thought this isn't routine maintenance and you'd be fairly unlucky if yo had to do this anyhow.
300bhp/ton said:
Herbs said:
Citing Mondials and 308's are different as they come from an era where a car was a car regardless of badge
Actually it was directly answering a question that someone asked.Herbs said:
- the modern car needs a computer to connect to it and represents a completely different proposition than it did 10-20 years ago.
This is true, although the GT will be OBDII compliant. For other software needs I assume (but don't know) that it'll interface with the same software you'd use on an A8, Phaeton type of thing. Pricey, but something that is attainable or accessible.Herbs said:
In theory yes, it could be run for a bit more than a high end BMW but the baulk possibility on a failed part is on a whole different level and to advise something otherwise is morally wrong.
Then how do people manage to run these? Do you honestly think these £20k examples are going to go up in price dramatically, or maybe continue to drop in value.I still stand by the fact that if you are considering a turbocharged Porsche, M BMW, AMG Merc then the costs "could" indeed be quite similar over a period of years ownership. And when you factor in depreciation on newer lesser vehicles, then the total cost of ownership might be very similar to that of many other vehicles.
I completely agree that taking depreciation in consideration but that opens up a whole different argument on New/Nearly New/Used which is not for now. However, the OP asked for running costs not overall cost so for this debate, depreciation is best ignored.
I have had a few lively debates with you in the past and on some of your more recent posts you do have a valid point but you are debating the same point from a different angle to the rest of us which can make you look argumentative and wrong.
Bottom line, a Bentley can be ran on a reasonable budget but the potential for a massive bill lingers on your shoulder and a new owner must go into that with there eyes open and have the relevant reserves in case that happens otherwise they have bought a very expensive garage ornament
Agreed?279 said:
You've been told before that your thoughts on cheap Continental ownership are wrong. People with actual experience of these cars have taken their time to try and educate you on the subject, and then you go back to posting the exact same rubbish just a few months later. You'd expect people to taken on board your experience and thoughts on a subject that they were clearly wrong about and not expect them to forget it readily, why can you not show the same common courtesy to others? To be honest, its fking rude.
Moving on...
My thoughts as a former Bentley technician.
Older (04-05) cars aren't nearly as nice a place to be as a later car (06+). I found the leather in every 04-05 car to be shiny and nasty no matter how many miles were or were not on the clock, and bearing in mind that there is leather everywhere it'd be enough to put me off owning one and to cap it off they aren't as well screwed together as the later cars (cliche, but somehow true).
All GT series cars have a underbonnet plenum design that allows leafs to collect on the bulkhead. 04-05 cars had a special issue of having a badly designed plenum drain which meant leafs would easily block and cause the plenum to fill up with water. Did I mention that at the bottom of this plenum prone to flooding with water plenum contains a key electrical loom? Oh, and the outrageously expensive engine control modules live there as well, then directly below in the cabin below the passenger side carpet lives the Front body control module, and yes, it is about as expensive as it sounds, and yes, it is accessible to that water pooling above it in the plenum if you're particularly unlucky. If you're very unlucky the corrosion has been known to travel all over the loom on more than one occasion. And that's how a £20,000 Bentley racks up a £20,000 repair bill.
For anybody looking at any 04-05 GT I cannot stress how important it is to lift the bonnet, lift up the plenum and have a good look (with a torch) to see A) If the plenum has been kept free of leaves, B) If water is pooling and C) If the slice loom is corroded. No A or B does not necessarily mean no C, so have a look. I cannot stress this enough, if you're going to do anything before handing over your money, do this.
The fix requires half the interior to be stripped out in order to get the HVAC unit out, replacing the loom and carrying out the drain mod. Actually doing the fix takes all of 2 minutes, but it sits underneath the HVAC unit and thus, needs the interior stripping. If my memory serves me rightly, you'll be lucky to get change from £5,000, and that's the best case scenario.
Oh, and unless there is a receipt clearing outlining that the slice loom has been replaced, it hasn't and is prone to this issue happening. I've been asked to look over a few cheap GTs on the behalf of people in the past. Every Salesmen I've spoken to at prestige used car dealers seems to think that it was a part of some sort of Bentley recall which it certainly was not, so do take anyone's word for it.
As i mentioned, the drain was improved on 06 cars, but also the slice loom was relocated, so it is not so much of a worry.
They'll consume suspension bushes quicker than the original owners would have consumed champagne and caviar. Without a doubt top suspension arms and Anti roll bar links were the most common MOT failure item. If you said you got more than 25,000 miles out of a set, I’d call you a liar. If you got 15,000 out a set, I’d say you had a good run. My memory is terrible, but I think the arms alone (bushes not available separately) came to £600 for all 4 (two each side) (and from my experience no 300BHP, you cannot use the arms from a Phaeton) and bottom arms will run about a grand each (and there are four the them, but lucky they rarely then to go all at once). The antiroll bar links however are surprisingly cheap and easy to fit. Then you’ve got to align the car, and that is a nightmare on its own. Continental GTs are incredibly camber conscious cars and even when set within manufacture sets on a Top of the liner laser 4 wheel aligner, they’ll pull to the left. A LOT of fiddling about needs to be done to get them to drive nice, not one for Phil down the arches with the Dunlop gauges
The W12 is a very strong reliable engine mechanically; unfortunately the bits bolted to it aren’t so reliable. Many jobs that would be ‘ordinary’ on other cars GT automatically have £5,000+ slapped onto the price on a Conti car simply because of the packaging of the W12. Starter motor, some (or all, depending on who you speak to) Oxygen sensors, turbochargers, etc require the engine to be removed.
Look out for general electrical issues. Nothing in particular, but if you find a gadget doing something funky assume it is going to be a job for a specialist seeing how most control modules need programming with the correct diagnostic tools. Plug in and play does not apply.
The process might have changed since I last heard, but I believe the TPM sensors AND control module still need to be replaced about every 5 years on early cars. Easily a 4 figure job, nearly that in parts alone.
Every 4th year service is a spark plug change which requires the intake plenum to be removed to gain access to the plugs which means a lot of potential breakages if you don’t know what you’re doing. Every 6th year is the hydraulic service. Be carefully who you take it to, cross thread the wrong pipe and the engine needs to come out to replace it.
Would I recommend one? An early 04-05 car? Not a bloody chance. They’re liabilities. I’d entertain a 06+ onwards car, with a proper Bentley approved warranty, but I would have to convince myself that they were a significantly nicer car than say a 6 series or XKR. A Conti does feel like a better place to be than the BMW or Jaguar, but not quite as night and day as you’d have perhaps hoped.
Any questions feel free to post them and I'll do my best to help.
279 - many thanks...exactly what we all needed. Great contribution. The rest of the conversation on here is just noise...king rude.Moving on...
My thoughts as a former Bentley technician.
Older (04-05) cars aren't nearly as nice a place to be as a later car (06+). I found the leather in every 04-05 car to be shiny and nasty no matter how many miles were or were not on the clock, and bearing in mind that there is leather everywhere it'd be enough to put me off owning one and to cap it off they aren't as well screwed together as the later cars (cliche, but somehow true).
All GT series cars have a underbonnet plenum design that allows leafs to collect on the bulkhead. 04-05 cars had a special issue of having a badly designed plenum drain which meant leafs would easily block and cause the plenum to fill up with water. Did I mention that at the bottom of this plenum prone to flooding with water plenum contains a key electrical loom? Oh, and the outrageously expensive engine control modules live there as well, then directly below in the cabin below the passenger side carpet lives the Front body control module, and yes, it is about as expensive as it sounds, and yes, it is accessible to that water pooling above it in the plenum if you're particularly unlucky. If you're very unlucky the corrosion has been known to travel all over the loom on more than one occasion. And that's how a £20,000 Bentley racks up a £20,000 repair bill.
For anybody looking at any 04-05 GT I cannot stress how important it is to lift the bonnet, lift up the plenum and have a good look (with a torch) to see A) If the plenum has been kept free of leaves, B) If water is pooling and C) If the slice loom is corroded. No A or B does not necessarily mean no C, so have a look. I cannot stress this enough, if you're going to do anything before handing over your money, do this.
The fix requires half the interior to be stripped out in order to get the HVAC unit out, replacing the loom and carrying out the drain mod. Actually doing the fix takes all of 2 minutes, but it sits underneath the HVAC unit and thus, needs the interior stripping. If my memory serves me rightly, you'll be lucky to get change from £5,000, and that's the best case scenario.
Oh, and unless there is a receipt clearing outlining that the slice loom has been replaced, it hasn't and is prone to this issue happening. I've been asked to look over a few cheap GTs on the behalf of people in the past. Every Salesmen I've spoken to at prestige used car dealers seems to think that it was a part of some sort of Bentley recall which it certainly was not, so do take anyone's word for it.
As i mentioned, the drain was improved on 06 cars, but also the slice loom was relocated, so it is not so much of a worry.
They'll consume suspension bushes quicker than the original owners would have consumed champagne and caviar. Without a doubt top suspension arms and Anti roll bar links were the most common MOT failure item. If you said you got more than 25,000 miles out of a set, I’d call you a liar. If you got 15,000 out a set, I’d say you had a good run. My memory is terrible, but I think the arms alone (bushes not available separately) came to £600 for all 4 (two each side) (and from my experience no 300BHP, you cannot use the arms from a Phaeton) and bottom arms will run about a grand each (and there are four the them, but lucky they rarely then to go all at once). The antiroll bar links however are surprisingly cheap and easy to fit. Then you’ve got to align the car, and that is a nightmare on its own. Continental GTs are incredibly camber conscious cars and even when set within manufacture sets on a Top of the liner laser 4 wheel aligner, they’ll pull to the left. A LOT of fiddling about needs to be done to get them to drive nice, not one for Phil down the arches with the Dunlop gauges
The W12 is a very strong reliable engine mechanically; unfortunately the bits bolted to it aren’t so reliable. Many jobs that would be ‘ordinary’ on other cars GT automatically have £5,000+ slapped onto the price on a Conti car simply because of the packaging of the W12. Starter motor, some (or all, depending on who you speak to) Oxygen sensors, turbochargers, etc require the engine to be removed.
Look out for general electrical issues. Nothing in particular, but if you find a gadget doing something funky assume it is going to be a job for a specialist seeing how most control modules need programming with the correct diagnostic tools. Plug in and play does not apply.
The process might have changed since I last heard, but I believe the TPM sensors AND control module still need to be replaced about every 5 years on early cars. Easily a 4 figure job, nearly that in parts alone.
Every 4th year service is a spark plug change which requires the intake plenum to be removed to gain access to the plugs which means a lot of potential breakages if you don’t know what you’re doing. Every 6th year is the hydraulic service. Be carefully who you take it to, cross thread the wrong pipe and the engine needs to come out to replace it
. Would I recommend one? An early 04-05 car? Not a bloody chance. They’re liabilities. I’d entertain a 06+ onwards car, with a proper Bentley approved warranty, but I would have to convince myself that they were a significantly nicer car than say a 6 series or XKR. A Conti does feel like a better place to be than the BMW or Jaguar, but not quite as night and day as you’d have perhaps hoped.
Any questions feel free to post them and I'll do my best to help
.Edited by 279 on Friday 21st June 04:15
Edited by 279 on Friday 21st June 04:16
PF
TwistingMyMelon said:
300BHP, you gotta buy a Bentley Conti, take it to Kevs motors, pay £25 an hour to get it serviced, when it needs consumables at quite a substantial price, tell em "its all Audi aint it bruv, they share same bits off A6" innit, go on I dare you :P
I have neither the cash nor the balls to do this, but this sounds quite fun.I love how every thread turns into a get a 300bhp/ton.
I think people understand his point but read between lines that aren't there.
When someone posted about it being a 100k car so will still require £100k car maintenance my view on that would be yes to a certain extent but then no as its VAG.
A £100k 456 or Maserati 4200 at £20k is going to require exotic car maintenance but being VAG I think the Conti would be a much cheaper proposition.
There are always going to be car specific parts that will ruin your pocket but given the cars peers the Conti is the 'cheaper' £100k car.
I think people understand his point but read between lines that aren't there.
When someone posted about it being a 100k car so will still require £100k car maintenance my view on that would be yes to a certain extent but then no as its VAG.
A £100k 456 or Maserati 4200 at £20k is going to require exotic car maintenance but being VAG I think the Conti would be a much cheaper proposition.
There are always going to be car specific parts that will ruin your pocket but given the cars peers the Conti is the 'cheaper' £100k car.
I think that buying a 'budget' CGT is possible. I take on 300/bhp's comments and agree with many of them, but also appreciate the comments from those that have more direct experience.
The same advice probably applies for anyone buying an expensive car cheaply - make sure you have a warchest of funds tucked away that you can dip into should something catastrophic happen.
All things considered I think the main issue with a Bentley is that the warchest should be bigger than for most other similar cars as there will be a limited number of used parts available from breakers and the prices for some bits from Bentley have the ability to leave a £25k CGT almost as scrap.
As to labour rates, personally I'd be expecting to be using specialists for anything I couldn't do myself, and I'd be making sure the specialist had extensive experience of the CGTs and the appropriate kit to work on them. Ok, their rates might be higher than 'Bob under arches' but they'd still be half the price of a Bentley dealer and probably know the older car problems better as well.
The same advice probably applies for anyone buying an expensive car cheaply - make sure you have a warchest of funds tucked away that you can dip into should something catastrophic happen.
All things considered I think the main issue with a Bentley is that the warchest should be bigger than for most other similar cars as there will be a limited number of used parts available from breakers and the prices for some bits from Bentley have the ability to leave a £25k CGT almost as scrap.
As to labour rates, personally I'd be expecting to be using specialists for anything I couldn't do myself, and I'd be making sure the specialist had extensive experience of the CGTs and the appropriate kit to work on them. Ok, their rates might be higher than 'Bob under arches' but they'd still be half the price of a Bentley dealer and probably know the older car problems better as well.
I'm going to side with 300Bhp on this one. As these cars drop in value and particularly when they hit sub 10k they will fall into the hands of people who will run them with a bit more ingenuity than the first owner.
The example earlier in the thread where an owner was quoted £3000 for an ECU, which turned out to be a 100 quid sensor (assuming new so £50-60 from a breaker) and fit it yourself. When the ABS light came on my S40 Volvo quoted £1000+ to replace the pump motor and control unit. 30 seconds of googling reveals the loom corrodes under the radiator so it was fixed for half a day of my labour and few pence of solder, worked perfectly for the couple of years I ran it after that. There's 1000's of other examples, LCD display and suspension bushes on my LS400, I dread to think what Lexus would have charged me for those jobs.
As with all cars worth preserving when something goes wrong it won't be off to the dealer for a new this and that it will be lets open the ECU, fix the dry joints or whatever, post on the internet/market cheap repair solution.
I seem to recall that Bentley have sold 10000+ Conti GT's, a ready supply of the model specific parts for a while to come is pretty much guaranteed.
Having said that they will never be 'cheap' cars to own, which is perfect as that's what will put them in the 1-5k barge thread in the first place. When they get down to 5K i'll have a serious look, they've got a lot depreciating still to do.
Edit: must remember to close brackets
The example earlier in the thread where an owner was quoted £3000 for an ECU, which turned out to be a 100 quid sensor (assuming new so £50-60 from a breaker) and fit it yourself. When the ABS light came on my S40 Volvo quoted £1000+ to replace the pump motor and control unit. 30 seconds of googling reveals the loom corrodes under the radiator so it was fixed for half a day of my labour and few pence of solder, worked perfectly for the couple of years I ran it after that. There's 1000's of other examples, LCD display and suspension bushes on my LS400, I dread to think what Lexus would have charged me for those jobs.
As with all cars worth preserving when something goes wrong it won't be off to the dealer for a new this and that it will be lets open the ECU, fix the dry joints or whatever, post on the internet/market cheap repair solution.
I seem to recall that Bentley have sold 10000+ Conti GT's, a ready supply of the model specific parts for a while to come is pretty much guaranteed.
Having said that they will never be 'cheap' cars to own, which is perfect as that's what will put them in the 1-5k barge thread in the first place. When they get down to 5K i'll have a serious look, they've got a lot depreciating still to do.
Edit: must remember to close brackets
Edited by inman999 on Friday 21st June 13:46
Lots of people seem to be ganging up on 300 and whilst he is not entirely right, he is not entirely wrong either. Unlike many on here I speak from personal ownership experience albeit 2 x Spurs and not coupes.
The routine stuff is slightly more labour intensive mainly due to access. The front wings have to come off to make space around the engine, but you can go to an indie and reduce the total cost. Our cars as a whole have always had extra faults which hit the purse hard. Generally we use Bentley parts only but you might find that your friendly Bentley indie knows that a certain widget also fits a golf, thus avoiding Bentley tax. Years ago my MAF sensor failed on my M5. This was a Bosch part and from BMW was 250 quid. It was also the same one (bar a plastic lug) that was fitted to VAG cars and cost only 110 from VW.
There are quite a few big ticket failures which will scrap the car if you are stretching yourself at 25k. The leaves blocking the plenum has already been mentioned. Our dampers ruptured at 50k miles costing 5 grand to replace. The high level brake light goes on early GTs meaning lots of trim and glass removal. From memory a starter motor is 21 hours labour as the engine comes out and so on. We have had electrical faults that not even Jack Barclay have been able to banish so don't assume that any car you buy will be reliable.
So to summarize - Yes you can run a GT on a budget simlar to other high end cars but you must buy the right car in the first place, use a respected indie and keep a few grand under the mattress just in case.
The routine stuff is slightly more labour intensive mainly due to access. The front wings have to come off to make space around the engine, but you can go to an indie and reduce the total cost. Our cars as a whole have always had extra faults which hit the purse hard. Generally we use Bentley parts only but you might find that your friendly Bentley indie knows that a certain widget also fits a golf, thus avoiding Bentley tax. Years ago my MAF sensor failed on my M5. This was a Bosch part and from BMW was 250 quid. It was also the same one (bar a plastic lug) that was fitted to VAG cars and cost only 110 from VW.
There are quite a few big ticket failures which will scrap the car if you are stretching yourself at 25k. The leaves blocking the plenum has already been mentioned. Our dampers ruptured at 50k miles costing 5 grand to replace. The high level brake light goes on early GTs meaning lots of trim and glass removal. From memory a starter motor is 21 hours labour as the engine comes out and so on. We have had electrical faults that not even Jack Barclay have been able to banish so don't assume that any car you buy will be reliable.
So to summarize - Yes you can run a GT on a budget simlar to other high end cars but you must buy the right car in the first place, use a respected indie and keep a few grand under the mattress just in case.
TwistingMyMelon said:
300bhp/ton said:
Fast Bug said:
I'm no mechanical expert, and have never confessed to being one. But I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say that the W12 engine might be a little bit more complex than the 6.75 V8 which first saw service in the back of Noah's Ark...
The 6.75 is twin turbocharged and uses electronic fuel injection. It might be of an older design, but I'm not sure it's actually that much less complex to maintain. Although I admit it is less sophisticated and uses less electronic senses, but BMW 123D is also far more complex in this regard too.Also worth noting the RR V8 was used exclusively by RR. The W12 and derivatives are used in many more vehicles and share some common parts with older VAG engines. This means there is a wider more diverse usage of the W12.
Yes I know i'm biting but there's a massive sheep mentality on here at the minute.
stain said:
So to summarize - Yes you can run a GT on a budget simlar to other high end cars but you must buy the right car in the first place, use a respected indie and keep a few grand under the mattress just in case.
This ^ I looked at a good few cars and a load of homework which helped find the right one from the right place. It was a 06 onwards car, the right spec and colour combination, touch quilted leather it's been a great car!Edited by RevHappy on Friday 21st June 14:14
279 said:
You've been told before that your thoughts on cheap Continental ownership are wrong. People with actual experience of these cars have taken their time to try and educate you on the subject, and then you go back to posting the exact same rubbish just a few months later. You'd expect people to taken on board your experience and thoughts on a subject that they were clearly wrong about and not expect them to forget it readily, why can you not show the same common courtesy to others? To be honest, its fking rude.
Moving on...
My thoughts as a former Bentley technician.
Older (04-05) cars aren't nearly as nice a place to be as a later car (06+). I found the leather in every 04-05 car to be shiny and nasty no matter how many miles were or were not on the clock, and bearing in mind that there is leather everywhere it'd be enough to put me off owning one and to cap it off they aren't as well screwed together as the later cars (cliche, but somehow true).
All GT series cars have a underbonnet plenum design that allows leafs to collect on the bulkhead. 04-05 cars had a special issue of having a badly designed plenum drain which meant leafs would easily block and cause the plenum to fill up with water. Did I mention that at the bottom of this plenum prone to flooding with water plenum contains a key electrical loom? Oh, and the outrageously expensive engine control modules live there as well, then directly below in the cabin below the passenger side carpet lives the Front body control module, and yes, it is about as expensive as it sounds, and yes, it is accessible to that water pooling above it in the plenum if you're particularly unlucky. If you're very unlucky the corrosion has been known to travel all over the loom on more than one occasion. And that's how a £20,000 Bentley racks up a £20,000 repair bill.
For anybody looking at any 04-05 GT I cannot stress how important it is to lift the bonnet, lift up the plenum and have a good look (with a torch) to see A) If the plenum has been kept free of leaves, B) If water is pooling and C) If the slice loom is corroded. No A or B does not necessarily mean no C, so have a look. I cannot stress this enough, if you're going to do anything before handing over your money, do this.
The fix requires half the interior to be stripped out in order to get the HVAC unit out, replacing the loom and carrying out the drain mod. Actually doing the fix takes all of 2 minutes, but it sits underneath the HVAC unit and thus, needs the interior stripping. If my memory serves me rightly, you'll be lucky to get change from £5,000, and that's the best case scenario.
Oh, and unless there is a receipt clearing outlining that the slice loom has been replaced, it hasn't and is prone to this issue happening. I've been asked to look over a few cheap GTs on the behalf of people in the past. Every Salesmen I've spoken to at prestige used car dealers seems to think that it was a part of some sort of Bentley recall which it certainly was not, so do take anyone's word for it.
As i mentioned, the drain was improved on 06 cars, but also the slice loom was relocated, so it is not so much of a worry.
They'll consume suspension bushes quicker than the original owners would have consumed champagne and caviar. Without a doubt top suspension arms and Anti roll bar links were the most common MOT failure item. If you said you got more than 25,000 miles out of a set, I’d call you a liar. If you got 15,000 out a set, I’d say you had a good run. My memory is terrible, but I think the arms alone (bushes not available separately) came to £600 for all 4 (two each side) (and from my experience no 300BHP, you cannot use the arms from a Phaeton) and bottom arms will run about a grand each (and there are four the them, but lucky they rarely then to go all at once). The antiroll bar links however are surprisingly cheap and easy to fit. Then you’ve got to align the car, and that is a nightmare on its own. Continental GTs are incredibly camber conscious cars and even when set within manufacture sets on a Top of the liner laser 4 wheel aligner, they’ll pull to the left. A LOT of fiddling about needs to be done to get them to drive nice, not one for Phil down the arches with the Dunlop gauges
The W12 is a very strong reliable engine mechanically; unfortunately the bits bolted to it aren’t so reliable. Many jobs that would be ‘ordinary’ on other cars GT automatically have £5,000+ slapped onto the price on a Conti car simply because of the packaging of the W12. Starter motor, some (or all, depending on who you speak to) Oxygen sensors, turbochargers, etc require the engine to be removed.
Look out for general electrical issues. Nothing in particular, but if you find a gadget doing something funky assume it is going to be a job for a specialist seeing how most control modules need programming with the correct diagnostic tools. Plug in and play does not apply.
The process might have changed since I last heard, but I believe the TPM sensors AND control module still need to be replaced about every 5 years on early cars. Easily a 4 figure job, nearly that in parts alone.
Every 4th year service is a spark plug change which requires the intake plenum to be removed to gain access to the plugs which means a lot of potential breakages if you don’t know what you’re doing. Every 6th year is the hydraulic service. Be carefully who you take it to, cross thread the wrong pipe and the engine needs to come out to replace it.
Would I recommend one? An early 04-05 car? Not a bloody chance. They’re liabilities. I’d entertain a 06+ onwards car, with a proper Bentley approved warranty, but I would have to convince myself that they were a significantly nicer car than say a 6 series or XKR. A Conti does feel like a better place to be than the BMW or Jaguar, but not quite as night and day as you’d have perhaps hoped.
Any questions feel free to post them and I'll do my best to help.
Blimey, an informative post on Pistonheads. Just like the old days. Well done 279. king rude.Moving on...
My thoughts as a former Bentley technician.
Older (04-05) cars aren't nearly as nice a place to be as a later car (06+). I found the leather in every 04-05 car to be shiny and nasty no matter how many miles were or were not on the clock, and bearing in mind that there is leather everywhere it'd be enough to put me off owning one and to cap it off they aren't as well screwed together as the later cars (cliche, but somehow true).
All GT series cars have a underbonnet plenum design that allows leafs to collect on the bulkhead. 04-05 cars had a special issue of having a badly designed plenum drain which meant leafs would easily block and cause the plenum to fill up with water. Did I mention that at the bottom of this plenum prone to flooding with water plenum contains a key electrical loom? Oh, and the outrageously expensive engine control modules live there as well, then directly below in the cabin below the passenger side carpet lives the Front body control module, and yes, it is about as expensive as it sounds, and yes, it is accessible to that water pooling above it in the plenum if you're particularly unlucky. If you're very unlucky the corrosion has been known to travel all over the loom on more than one occasion. And that's how a £20,000 Bentley racks up a £20,000 repair bill.
For anybody looking at any 04-05 GT I cannot stress how important it is to lift the bonnet, lift up the plenum and have a good look (with a torch) to see A) If the plenum has been kept free of leaves, B) If water is pooling and C) If the slice loom is corroded. No A or B does not necessarily mean no C, so have a look. I cannot stress this enough, if you're going to do anything before handing over your money, do this.
The fix requires half the interior to be stripped out in order to get the HVAC unit out, replacing the loom and carrying out the drain mod. Actually doing the fix takes all of 2 minutes, but it sits underneath the HVAC unit and thus, needs the interior stripping. If my memory serves me rightly, you'll be lucky to get change from £5,000, and that's the best case scenario.
Oh, and unless there is a receipt clearing outlining that the slice loom has been replaced, it hasn't and is prone to this issue happening. I've been asked to look over a few cheap GTs on the behalf of people in the past. Every Salesmen I've spoken to at prestige used car dealers seems to think that it was a part of some sort of Bentley recall which it certainly was not, so do take anyone's word for it.
As i mentioned, the drain was improved on 06 cars, but also the slice loom was relocated, so it is not so much of a worry.
They'll consume suspension bushes quicker than the original owners would have consumed champagne and caviar. Without a doubt top suspension arms and Anti roll bar links were the most common MOT failure item. If you said you got more than 25,000 miles out of a set, I’d call you a liar. If you got 15,000 out a set, I’d say you had a good run. My memory is terrible, but I think the arms alone (bushes not available separately) came to £600 for all 4 (two each side) (and from my experience no 300BHP, you cannot use the arms from a Phaeton) and bottom arms will run about a grand each (and there are four the them, but lucky they rarely then to go all at once). The antiroll bar links however are surprisingly cheap and easy to fit. Then you’ve got to align the car, and that is a nightmare on its own. Continental GTs are incredibly camber conscious cars and even when set within manufacture sets on a Top of the liner laser 4 wheel aligner, they’ll pull to the left. A LOT of fiddling about needs to be done to get them to drive nice, not one for Phil down the arches with the Dunlop gauges
The W12 is a very strong reliable engine mechanically; unfortunately the bits bolted to it aren’t so reliable. Many jobs that would be ‘ordinary’ on other cars GT automatically have £5,000+ slapped onto the price on a Conti car simply because of the packaging of the W12. Starter motor, some (or all, depending on who you speak to) Oxygen sensors, turbochargers, etc require the engine to be removed.
Look out for general electrical issues. Nothing in particular, but if you find a gadget doing something funky assume it is going to be a job for a specialist seeing how most control modules need programming with the correct diagnostic tools. Plug in and play does not apply.
The process might have changed since I last heard, but I believe the TPM sensors AND control module still need to be replaced about every 5 years on early cars. Easily a 4 figure job, nearly that in parts alone.
Every 4th year service is a spark plug change which requires the intake plenum to be removed to gain access to the plugs which means a lot of potential breakages if you don’t know what you’re doing. Every 6th year is the hydraulic service. Be carefully who you take it to, cross thread the wrong pipe and the engine needs to come out to replace it
. Would I recommend one? An early 04-05 car? Not a bloody chance. They’re liabilities. I’d entertain a 06+ onwards car, with a proper Bentley approved warranty, but I would have to convince myself that they were a significantly nicer car than say a 6 series or XKR. A Conti does feel like a better place to be than the BMW or Jaguar, but not quite as night and day as you’d have perhaps hoped.
Any questions feel free to post them and I'll do my best to help
.Edited by 279 on Friday 21st June 04:15
Edited by 279 on Friday 21st June 04:16
279 said:
Comprehensive details about likely costs]
Superb post 279.Like all really nice cars, noticing the near-affordability of the GT makes my mind start to wander and Im gald you've put me off so comprehensively.
Something you didn't really mention is how common these expensive faults were. Are they an inevitability or are they the minority but with the potential costs being that scary that it doesn't matter?
blindswelledrat said:
Superb post 279.
Like all really nice cars, noticing the near-affordability of the GT makes my mind start to wander and Im gald you've put me off so comprehensively.
Something you didn't really mention is how common these expensive faults were. Are they an inevitability or are they the minority but with the potential costs being that scary that it doesn't matter?
I've been surprised with ours just how many faults we have had. The suspension was the biggest single item bill but they do wear out suspension arms and ball joints fairly regularly as 279 has mentioned. The gearbox played up on my first one but they got to the bottom of that. Despite resetting the ECU it still had a bad jolt between 1st and 2nd in the morning. Like all really nice cars, noticing the near-affordability of the GT makes my mind start to wander and Im gald you've put me off so comprehensively.
Something you didn't really mention is how common these expensive faults were. Are they an inevitability or are they the minority but with the potential costs being that scary that it doesn't matter?
The black chrome window trims will be bubbling by now and they are very pricey.
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