RE: Spoiler alert: PH Blog
Discussion
Im probably wrong here but ill say it anyway. Arnt these things purely cosmetic and for pub bragging rights? I mean if you need one for performance on a SPORTS car then just have a permanent fixed lightweight thingy and sod the low speed drag which would be negligable against a powerfull motor anyway. And also wouldnt the extra weight (structure, fluid and cooling, pump, motor and wiring etc) and complexity of an electro hydraulic system defeat the saving obtained by retracting into the bodywork at low speed anyway. They seem completely pointless to me.
Andy ap said:
Im probably wrong here but ill say it anyway. Arnt these things purely cosmetic and for pub bragging rights? I mean if you need one for performance on a SPORTS car then just have a permanent fixed lightweight thingy and sod the low speed drag which would be negligable against a powerfull motor anyway. And also wouldnt the extra weight (structure, fluid and cooling, pump, motor and wiring etc) and complexity of an electro hydraulic system defeat the saving obtained by retracting into the bodywork at low speed anyway. They seem completely pointless to me.
I'd guess that having them retractible may help the MPG figures.My 911 / 996 deploys its so called ''active aero' spoiler automatically at about 60mph. It has always struck me as being a little tricky in that the driver would have no idea if a malfunction occurred when the spoiler was called upon to deploy. Presumably if I were on the Nurburgring or at a track day I might experience a sudden adrenalin rush followed by armco barrier.
There seems to be no visual warning on the dash and anyway under such circumstances it would probably all come a bit too late to avoid the pendulum effect!
There seems to be no visual warning on the dash and anyway under such circumstances it would probably all come a bit too late to avoid the pendulum effect!
PH said:
The effect is startling and educational for numbskulls like me who never pay enough attention to the crucial work of design and styling teams.
To me it shows the opposite. It shows how the design and styling teams have failed to take in to account the reality of physics forcing the aero & engineering people to come up with a compromise. If the car needs a spoiler it should be designed as part of the original package. They look bad when they are stuck on top of a prior design.Captain Muppet said:
Try holding a plank sideways out of a car window at 70mph. The forces are non-trivial.
Although nothing that a careful driver wouldn't be able to live without.
Mat777 is a failed aerodynamics student, he should have an interesting view on this.
IIRC the rear spoiler on the Escort Cosworth generated 20kg of downforce at 70mph - you could get more than than by getting someone to sit in the back seat.Although nothing that a careful driver wouldn't be able to live without.
Mat777 is a failed aerodynamics student, he should have an interesting view on this.
VladD said:
I'd guess that having them retractible may help the MPG figures.
But if theyre retracted theyre dead weight so that wont help the mpg. Are they trying to tell us that aero has more of an effect on mpg than weight does. Im not so sure? A pop up spoiler is fine when your trying to stop 90 tons of a300 going over 160mph but on a car? So shd we say theyre really for when you brake?Edited by Andy ap on Thursday 11th July 14:02
They'll be active so the car looks 'swish' when parked, and then gets ugly once it gets going.
They will also no doubt be down at cruising speeds to help mpg/co2 a bit vs a fixed spoiler.
In most cases they are there to just separate the flow at speed to reduce lift at a cost of more drag... All a bit naff really because an active spoiler could be really cool looking if done well.
My other thoughts are how much extra does it cost to make/fit and weight etc etc to have it active, vs the benefits on the co2 rating. I bet it's pretty damn slight.
The onward march of chasing economy figures no matter how slight while ignoring that driving style will likely have 100x more impact if you care that much about mpg.
Dave
They will also no doubt be down at cruising speeds to help mpg/co2 a bit vs a fixed spoiler.
In most cases they are there to just separate the flow at speed to reduce lift at a cost of more drag... All a bit naff really because an active spoiler could be really cool looking if done well.
My other thoughts are how much extra does it cost to make/fit and weight etc etc to have it active, vs the benefits on the co2 rating. I bet it's pretty damn slight.
The onward march of chasing economy figures no matter how slight while ignoring that driving style will likely have 100x more impact if you care that much about mpg.
Dave
I may be alone on this one, but I really don't like the Carrera GT spoiler when it's raised. When lowered, it is one of the purest, most exciting cars to look at (IMHO of course). In saying that however, I can safely say it needs it at speed!
My boss has one, and constantly insists on leaving it up when parked, he thinks it transforms the look of the car. Fair enough
My boss has one, and constantly insists on leaving it up when parked, he thinks it transforms the look of the car. Fair enough
doogz said:
Well, yeah, but then you'd be carrying that weight about all of the time.
It's not a huge amount of downforce, I agree, but you seem to be missing the point of it?
My point is that a lot of these retractable "spoilers" are too small and lack the aerodynamic profile to generate any significant amount of downforce or drag reduction. I mean look at what they're fitted to - they're hardly lightweight vehicles that need it. Most are there purely for decoration IMHO.It's not a huge amount of downforce, I agree, but you seem to be missing the point of it?
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