RE: Aston and AMG: it's official!
Discussion
Megaflow said:
Krikkit said:
It's not. I didn't say the above were exempt, I'd just rather see Aston develop its own engines.
Pagani couldn't have started if they made their own for the C12. Since then they've continually had AMG modify it to their spec, it's become their own.
The Lamborghini V10 was developed for them, just because it's subsequently been used elsewhere doesn't make it less special. It was built for the Gallardo.
The Rolls is a stickler for me - sharing the engine with a puny 7-series is a bit below what is supposed to be the ultimate in luxury cars.
Mini/Range doesn't make any difference to me - they're not sports cars and have never had their own engines, objectively speaking.
They simply cannot afford it. To develop an engine costs hundreds of millions of pounds, to recover that cost over the tiny number of units Aston Martin are going to sell is not viable.Pagani couldn't have started if they made their own for the C12. Since then they've continually had AMG modify it to their spec, it's become their own.
The Lamborghini V10 was developed for them, just because it's subsequently been used elsewhere doesn't make it less special. It was built for the Gallardo.
The Rolls is a stickler for me - sharing the engine with a puny 7-series is a bit below what is supposed to be the ultimate in luxury cars.
Mini/Range doesn't make any difference to me - they're not sports cars and have never had their own engines, objectively speaking.
As most have said I can see very few downsides to this.
Aston gain access to modern, high-performance powertrain components which match their needs perfectly without the expense of developing any themselves (which would surely bankrupt them).
AMG get more publicity and are able to amortise their investment a little more, developing their offering as a customer engine builder.
Aston gain access to modern, high-performance powertrain components which match their needs perfectly without the expense of developing any themselves (which would surely bankrupt them).
AMG get more publicity and are able to amortise their investment a little more, developing their offering as a customer engine builder.
dukebox9reg said:
At least there not sticking a Chevy V8 in them like everybody else...
Indeed. Plus AMG units sound excellent. AMG have V8's for the smaller cars, V12's for the top end cars, I really can't see a downside to this.Assuming Aston are going to get access to transmissions and electrical architecture as well, all they need to do know is come up with more fabulous body designs to stuff it all in!
urban_alchemist said:
Not sure the engines are the problem. Does this deal include platforms and other running gear (electrics, gearboxes etc)? That is where Aston seems to be falling behind the curve. Never heard any complaints about any of their engines...
Most manufacturers don't build their own Gearboxes. There's a set of tier 1 suppliers who do, e.g. Getrag and ZF etc.Megaflow said:
Krikkit said:
It's not. I didn't say the above were exempt, I'd just rather see Aston develop its own engines.
Pagani couldn't have started if they made their own for the C12. Since then they've continually had AMG modify it to their spec, it's become their own.
The Lamborghini V10 was developed for them, just because it's subsequently been used elsewhere doesn't make it less special. It was built for the Gallardo.
The Rolls is a stickler for me - sharing the engine with a puny 7-series is a bit below what is supposed to be the ultimate in luxury cars.
Mini/Range doesn't make any difference to me - they're not sports cars and have never had their own engines, objectively speaking.
They simply cannot afford it. To develop an engine costs hundreds of millions of pounds, to recover that cost over the tiny number of units Aston Martin are going to sell is not viable.Pagani couldn't have started if they made their own for the C12. Since then they've continually had AMG modify it to their spec, it's become their own.
The Lamborghini V10 was developed for them, just because it's subsequently been used elsewhere doesn't make it less special. It was built for the Gallardo.
The Rolls is a stickler for me - sharing the engine with a puny 7-series is a bit below what is supposed to be the ultimate in luxury cars.
Mini/Range doesn't make any difference to me - they're not sports cars and have never had their own engines, objectively speaking.
robinessex said:
Megaflow said:
Krikkit said:
It's not. I didn't say the above were exempt, I'd just rather see Aston develop its own engines.
Pagani couldn't have started if they made their own for the C12. Since then they've continually had AMG modify it to their spec, it's become their own.
The Lamborghini V10 was developed for them, just because it's subsequently been used elsewhere doesn't make it less special. It was built for the Gallardo.
The Rolls is a stickler for me - sharing the engine with a puny 7-series is a bit below what is supposed to be the ultimate in luxury cars.
Mini/Range doesn't make any difference to me - they're not sports cars and have never had their own engines, objectively speaking.
They simply cannot afford it. To develop an engine costs hundreds of millions of pounds, to recover that cost over the tiny number of units Aston Martin are going to sell is not viable.Pagani couldn't have started if they made their own for the C12. Since then they've continually had AMG modify it to their spec, it's become their own.
The Lamborghini V10 was developed for them, just because it's subsequently been used elsewhere doesn't make it less special. It was built for the Gallardo.
The Rolls is a stickler for me - sharing the engine with a puny 7-series is a bit below what is supposed to be the ultimate in luxury cars.
Mini/Range doesn't make any difference to me - they're not sports cars and have never had their own engines, objectively speaking.
robinessex said:
Megaflow said:
Krikkit said:
It's not. I didn't say the above were exempt, I'd just rather see Aston develop its own engines.
Pagani couldn't have started if they made their own for the C12. Since then they've continually had AMG modify it to their spec, it's become their own.
The Lamborghini V10 was developed for them, just because it's subsequently been used elsewhere doesn't make it less special. It was built for the Gallardo.
The Rolls is a stickler for me - sharing the engine with a puny 7-series is a bit below what is supposed to be the ultimate in luxury cars.
Mini/Range doesn't make any difference to me - they're not sports cars and have never had their own engines, objectively speaking.
They simply cannot afford it. To develop an engine costs hundreds of millions of pounds, to recover that cost over the tiny number of units Aston Martin are going to sell is not viable.Pagani couldn't have started if they made their own for the C12. Since then they've continually had AMG modify it to their spec, it's become their own.
The Lamborghini V10 was developed for them, just because it's subsequently been used elsewhere doesn't make it less special. It was built for the Gallardo.
The Rolls is a stickler for me - sharing the engine with a puny 7-series is a bit below what is supposed to be the ultimate in luxury cars.
Mini/Range doesn't make any difference to me - they're not sports cars and have never had their own engines, objectively speaking.
robinessex said:
So what do AMG know that engines Cosworth don't? Who designed McLaren "Mercedes" F1 engines? Ex Cosworth engineers. But I suppose it's part of the German plan to own the entire continental car industry eventually.
There are two parts to Cosworth, one is called Cosworth and is owned by the American Indycar Series owner and produces race engines. The other part, which developed the road car engines, is now called Mahle and is owned by... yes, the Germans, Audi to be precise.Edited by Megaflow on Thursday 25th July 13:01
dukebox9reg said:
We all know that the ZF 8spd is gradually taking over the car world
Fair enough, but can you name me a car in the AM league (above the Vantage) that uses a torque-converter and doesn't use a double-clutch gearbox? Last time I checked, Aston doesn't have one of those...urban_alchemist said:
dukebox9reg said:
We all know that the ZF 8spd is gradually taking over the car world
Fair enough, but can you name me a car in the AM league (above the Vantage) that uses a torque-converter and doesn't use a double-clutch gearbox? Last time I checked, Aston doesn't have one of those...NomduJour said:
Turbocharged Aston Martins then.
Afraid so. The 'economy & green emissions' march will be lead to more and more 'downsizing' of V8,s to V6'S etc. And as for AMG and V8'S , no one has mentioned their new A45 with 300+ bhp hand built and turbo 4 pot.
Even the editor of 'EVO' magazine said some time ago, it could be a good idea to have ' programmable sound effects' on future hybrid & electric cars to aid the driving experience...dear, oh dear..
Great news! 
It'll mean bye-bye to the old skool 6-speed ZF 'box. Hurrah!
And I'm guessing that AMG's V8s and V12s are a tidy bit lighter and more compact, as well as being more efficient, than Aston's current engines?
Ooo, imagine the Vantage with a lighter front-end and 600bhp. Yes please
Or a 1400kg 2-seat coupé/convertible 'basic'/'trendy minimalist' Aston sports car, costing no more than £70k, with a whooshing and snorting 400bhp version of AMG's 2.0-litre turbo delivering 4.2secs 0-60, 170mph and 35mpg. It would be a useful, and vital, cash cow that also lowers Aston's overall CO2/mpg - and it would be a darn sight more fitting than the Cygnet
It'll mean bye-bye to the old skool 6-speed ZF 'box. Hurrah!
And I'm guessing that AMG's V8s and V12s are a tidy bit lighter and more compact, as well as being more efficient, than Aston's current engines?
Ooo, imagine the Vantage with a lighter front-end and 600bhp. Yes please
Or a 1400kg 2-seat coupé/convertible 'basic'/'trendy minimalist' Aston sports car, costing no more than £70k, with a whooshing and snorting 400bhp version of AMG's 2.0-litre turbo delivering 4.2secs 0-60, 170mph and 35mpg. It would be a useful, and vital, cash cow that also lowers Aston's overall CO2/mpg - and it would be a darn sight more fitting than the Cygnet
Edited by NGK210 on Thursday 25th July 13:39
So tell me how does McLaren have their own engine which is developed and built by Ricardo cost effectively enough to sell a car at £170,000 in relatively small numbers and sell all around the world.
If McLaren can afford this why can not Aston. For me using AMG engines might make for a nice package but it is a step back whilst McLaren are moving forward.
I have not heard anyone say the McLaren engine is rubbish they should have put a Merc or BMW engine in it instead it adds to the pedigree and saleability of the McLaren as they are meeting Ferrari square on.
If McLaren can afford this why can not Aston. For me using AMG engines might make for a nice package but it is a step back whilst McLaren are moving forward.
I have not heard anyone say the McLaren engine is rubbish they should have put a Merc or BMW engine in it instead it adds to the pedigree and saleability of the McLaren as they are meeting Ferrari square on.
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