For the people that moan about electric turbos on ebay...

[pimpchez]

how many of you drive an Audi ,as they have done the same thing.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/I...

[Janesy B]

Yes because it's really the same thing.

[pimpchez]

In principle yes it is ,see their diagram. Obviously the main difference is that this system actually works.

[kambites]

It's not quite the same thing - it sounds like the system in that article is only designed to boost the engine for a fraction of a second while the conventional turbo spools up.

I'd imagine it's powered from super-capacitors rather than straight from the battery because that motor will need a massive burst of current if it's going to compress the air fast enough to be effective.

It's basically a twin-charger setup but the supercharger plays a lesser part and is electric rather than belt driven.

[kambites]

I guess you could use a small tank of compressed air to achieve much the same thing.

[McWigglebum4th]

kambites said:

I guess you could use a small tank of compressed air to achieve much the same thing.

Depends on what you call small.

3 ltr swept volume at 2000rpm is a stload of air

[scarble]

pimpchez said:

how many of you drive an Audi ,as they have done the same thing.

I do hope you're a bad troll. The two systems have about as much in common as the Gallardo pictured and the type of cars they're typically fitted too.
They are utter BS.

There was an AVL/ALABC/Valeo concept a few months ago using a switched reluctance motor driven radial compressor which was used only to provide low-end response when the main compressor was off-boost and this is pretty much the same system it would appear.
If you read the full article you will see that this system requires 48V (and probably a raft of high tech batteries).
It is not physically possible to move sufficient air to boost even the lowliest of engines at the lowest of speeds and loads using a single standard car battery especially with an electric motor and a fan which are also both entirely incapable of meeting the requirements.

McWigglebum4th said:

Depends on what you call small.
3 ltr swept volume at 2000rpm is a stload of air

Depends what you mean by compressed

[jon-]

What's EGT got to do with spooling a turbo?

[J4CKO]

In the article they say it fires the car off the line like an R8, probably not the best comparison, I drove an R8 and found it pretty gutless until that V8 was singing, and then it moved fairly well, if not in an other worldly manner, think you need the V10 for that.

Still, great use of the technology, always thought there must be some mileage int he electric turbo, the whole Ebay PC fan in the air intake kind of spoils the image but this looks great, now, if they could dispense with all the pistons and stuff and make the electric bit work on its own,

[StottyZr]

jon- said:

What's EGT got to do with spooling a turbo?

I thought the article was a spoof

[scarble]

jon- said:

What's EGT got to do with spooling a turbo?

assuming EGT is exhaust gas temp (I only skimmed the article), probably because the hotter it is the more/faster it expands.
HTH.

StottyZr said:

I thought the article was a spoof

Not at all, if one can drive a car at a reasonable-ish pace using electric motors then one can provide air to a proper engine using electric motors. It's not the basic idea that's daft, simply the ebay attempts at scamming the technically illiterate.
You just need a bigger motor, a bigger compressor and more battery

Edited by scarble on Tuesday 30th July 12:28

[hman]

Some of the electric ducted fan RC planes are chucking out an immense amount of thrust from similar voltages and currents as a car battery could deliver.

How much air volume does a turbo chuck out?

[lufbramatt]

depends on the turbo, application and the psi, but around 200-300cfm (5660-8500 litres/min)

[Mave]

Haven't yet read the link, but IIRC you need 10s of HP to drive the compressor on a supercharger, I can't imagine electric RC planes can manage that! :-(

[kambites]

hman said:

How much air volume does a turbo chuck out?

It's not the volume at atmospheric pressure that makes those things rather unviable, it's the volume at significant pressure.

As for how much, well a 3 litre four-stroke engine will have a swept capacity of 1500cc per revolution; say 6000rpm peak = 100 hz = 150 litres per second N/A. If you want to get 1 bar of boost, you'd need to add another 150 litres per second under pressure.

[hman]

Mave said:

Haven't yet read the link, but IIRC you need 10s of HP to drive the compressor on a supercharger, I can't imagine electric RC planes can manage that! :-(

The electric ducted fan is a turbine in a shroud not a supercharger compressor (ie a scroll or twin screw setup)

We can get 10-1lbs of thrust from an EDF easily.

What that works out to in this application I have no idea

[hman]

kambites said:

It's not the volume at atmospheric pressure that makes those things rather unviable, it's the volume at significant pressure.

As for how much, well a 3 litre four-stroke engine will have a swept capacity of 1500cc per revolution; say 6000rpm peak = 100 hz = 150 litres per second N/A. If you want to get 1 bar of boost, you'd need to add another 150 litres per second under pressure.

4st engine is only sucking in the air on every alternate stroke ..

http://www.centralturbos.com/pop-werks5a.htm

[scarble]

hman said:

4st engine is only sucking in the air on every alternate stroke ..
http://www.centralturbos.com/pop-werks5a.htm

Which is why he says 1.5l per cycle from a 3l engine

hman said:

The electric ducted fan is a turbine in a shroud not a supercharger compressor (ie a scroll or twin screw setup)

No it's not, a turbine is a device which is worked upon by a fluid to produce mechanical work, a ducted fan is a device which uses mechanical work to produce work upon a fluid.

A typical turbocharger compressor is actually a radial flow or centrifugal compressor (so neither a scroll or twin screw which granted are typical mechanically driven supercharger configurations)
But axial flow compressors are not used (queue someone coming up with some weird concept from the 50s to make me look silly) although there have been murmurs of axial turbines (as opposed to the typical radial flow ones used in cars) (I think they work better for very low flows or something?).

[hman]

scarble said:

hman said:

4st engine is only sucking in the air on every alternate stroke ..
http://www.centralturbos.com/pop-werks5a.htm

Which is why he says 1.5l per cycle from a 3l engine

hman said:

The electric ducted fan is a turbine in a shroud not a supercharger compressor (ie a scroll or twin screw setup)

No it's not, a turbine is a device which is worked upon by a fluid to produce mechanical work, a ducted fan is a device which uses mechanical work to produce work upon a fluid.

A typical turbocharger compressor is actually a radial flow or centrifugal compressor (so neither a scroll or twin screw which granted are typical mechanically driven supercharger configurations)
But axial flow compressors are not used (queue someone coming up with some weird concept from the 50s to make me look silly) although there have been murmurs of axial turbines (as opposed to the typical radial flow ones used in cars) (I think they work better for very low flows or something?).

Whatever, the guy before talked of a "supercharger" requiring huge forces -hence why I was talking about the difference between the commonly accepted usage of the word super charger in the context of cars with scrolls and or twin screws (not a turbo) and an EDF.

For all your regurgitations you still haven't worked out if an edf with 11 lbs of thrust would work as a turbo charger have you..

Pop that in your Wikipedia pipe and smoke it.

[Face for Radio]

Leaf-blowers in the intake have been proven to work. Bit impractical though. There's a video online of some yanks doing it with some sort of horrible music dubbed over.