Got stopped driving without insurance in an R32 please help.

Got stopped driving without insurance in an R32 please help.

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hubters

Original Poster:

36 posts

97 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
This isn't a troll post whatsoever. Basically, I am 19 years old and had rented out an R32. I got pulled over by the police as according to them, the car isn't insured to drive. Had my license for just over a year, so if 6 points, will be a ban.

I phoned the guy who I rented the car from (proper company, has website etc) and he says it is insured. The police officer took down the policy number and they said it does not exist.

They were nice police officers, and were waiting for an hour to try and sort things out. Gave the guy time to sort out insurance he gave them another policy number but that does not exist either.

They had a hire agreement with an insurer the police said, but was canceled last year due to undisclosed reasons.

The police officers were really nice and friendly, the car had one bold tyre and which they said they would of given me 3 points for but gave me the benefit of the doubt.

They basically given me a producer, and I've got to go to the police station and show them my licence, counterpart, etc within 7 days.

I might have to go to court for this because the car wasn't insured. He gave me a car hire agreement and that's about it.

So they've sized the car and the recovery truck, took it away, the police officer said in order for him to get the car back, he needs that white paper slip and without it, he can't get the car out. The officer indicated that I should keep the note and not give it him to collect the car until they either refund me (b - provide proper insurance.

The officer has to do the report and will do the best for me to avoid any points being on my licence.

Can anyone give me any advice what to do, regarding possible outcome? My fate? The car being impounded? Don't give him the slip to collect the car unlesss he either refunds me, or provides proper insurance for the car?

thank you.






Funk

23,243 posts

178 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
Sounds like a pretty stty situation.

Unfortunately I believe that the onus is on the driver to ensure that they are correctly insured. I don't know if it's SOP for hire companies to provide proof of cover as part of the paperwork supplied to you at point of hire?

9mm

3,128 posts

179 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
hubters said:
This isn't a troll post whatsoever. Basically, I am 19 years old and had rented out an R32. I got pulled over by the police as according to them, the car isn't insured to drive. Had my license for just over a year, so if 6 points, will be a ban.

I phoned the guy who I rented the car from (proper company, has website etc) and he says it is insured. The police officer took down the policy number and they said it does not exist.

They were nice police officers, and were waiting for an hour to try and sort things out. Gave the guy time to sort out insurance he gave them another policy number but that does not exist either.

They had a hire agreement with an insurer the police said, but was canceled last year due to undisclosed reasons.

The police officers were really nice and friendly, the car had one bold tyre and which they said they would of given me 3 points for but gave me the benefit of the doubt.

They basically given me a producer, and I've got to go to the police station and show them my licence, counterpart, etc within 7 days.

I might have to go to court for this because the car wasn't insured. He gave me a car hire agreement and that's about it.

So they've sized the car and the recovery truck, took it away, the police officer said in order for him to get the car back, he needs that white paper slip and without it, he can't get the car out. The officer indicated that I should keep the note and not give it him to collect the car until they either refund me (b - provide proper insurance.

The officer has to do the report and will do the best for me to avoid any points being on my licence.

Can anyone give me any advice what to do, regarding possible outcome? My fate? The car being impounded? Don't give him the slip to collect the car unlesss he either refunds me, or provides proper insurance for the car?

thank you.
Is it that bloke that lends (hires) cars out to his mate? Link to the website please (not expecting to get it for one minute).

Fastdruid

7,283 posts

121 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
Well you should actually be OK.

The reason being is that you had every faith that you had insurance.

You were told you had insurance and drove it believing the renter. He is the one guilty for the lack of insurance not you.

I suggest you get some proper legal advice but I doubt you'll get points and may even escape conviction if handled correctly.

ImDesigner

1,884 posts

163 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
Where on earth an you hire a car like an R32 at 19, fully insured?

I'm guessing you're in the st when your parents find out they've had their car crushed because you drove it without insurance. wink

graham22

3,183 posts

174 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
Clutching at straws here especially given your age but does your own insurance give driving other cars?

Do you have your own insurance cover, could they or even the hire co (cancelled) insurance company provide you with a letter of indemnity in the circumstances - ie that they would have dealt with the initial rta requirements should you have been in a accident whilst driving the hire car?

Long shot but I've seen it done.

Either way, I think it's time to speak to a specialist motoring solicitor rather than asking internet experts.

Edited by graham22 on Tuesday 6th August 13:37

Haggleburyfinius

5,939 posts

155 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
I'm sure there's a rule about not being responsible for driving an uninsured company car if you have been told it's insured or something.

Assuming what you say is correct, I would hope something similar would occur in this scenario.

I am amazed though that any hire car company would hire you a car at your age let alone an R32.

WreckedGecko

1,191 posts

170 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
Interesting situation.

I would think the responsibility for insuring a hire car sits with the hire company. So that should not rebound on you. That said you have a responsibility to ensure you are driving legally. Check the docs you got when you hired it. What do they say about insurance?

Out of interest, how much does it cost for a 19 year old to hire an R32? Given alot of places won't hire any cars to people under 21, a hot hatch must be rather pricy.

kambites

62,177 posts

190 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
Funk said:
... Unfortunately I believe that the onus is on the driver to ensure that they are correctly insured....
That's my understanding too. Not very helpful not, but you should always check the insurance documentation when you hire a car.

As for what happens next, if there is no insurance on the vehicle I guess you're looking at six points and a fine.

CYMR0

3,940 posts

169 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
R32 = Golf or Skyline? Either way, seems unlikely that any legitimate hire company would rent one out to a 19-year-old.

I'm not suggesting that you're lying, by the way, merely that the hire company may not be as legit as you thought.

Unfortunately, you have no defence unless your work had hired the car for you to drive to the airport on business or something. (NB if that isn't true, and I assume it's not, it would be an extremely bad idea to persuade them to lie to that effect in court).

The magistrates have the option to give you a conditional or absolute discharge if you explain the circumstances, but it is entirely at their discretion.

The good news is that, if you do get six points, you are not banned; your licence is revoked. This means that you do not have to serve out a ban; you merely have to retake your test and can then drive again (although getting insurance with a conviction will be expensive).

surveyor

15,857 posts

153 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
I think I remember that there was a Statutory Defence when you genuinely believed that you were covered. e.g. for employees with company cars etc. If I remember correctly and assuming that this is a legitimate rental you may be able to rely on this.

Hopefully someone who's specialist field that this is will be along shortly.

Definitely make sure you hold onto any hire agreements etc.

kambites

62,177 posts

190 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
graham22 said:
Clutching at straws here especially given your age but does your own insurance give driving other cars?
Even if he does, it almost always explicitly states "unless owned or hired by the the policy holder".

GSP

1,962 posts

173 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
If the car is genuinely not insured then the offence is absolute and you'll get at least 6 points regardless of mitigating circumstances... which for you will mean license revoked and re-doing your test.

You won't necessarily be banned, but could be. Revoking license is different to being banned in that you could do your test straight away again and start driving... if you can afford the insurance after declaring the conviction.

Funk

23,243 posts

178 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
I have to agree though that being able to hire an R32 at 19 isn't very likely. Most hire companies won't hire to under-25s any more, some supercar hire companies I believe it's 30+...?

DuraAce

3,708 posts

129 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
Which hire companies hire R32's to 19 year olds? Do you have their weblink?

How much did you pay for the hire?

Smells a little fishy to me...

CYMR0

3,940 posts

169 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
Actually re-reading s.143 (3) RTA 1988 then even if the OP hired the car for work, he still wouldn't have a defence.

If you rent a car yourself for work, even on another's instructions, you're still guilty of what is otherwise an absolute offence.

A person charged with using a motor vehicle in contravention of this section shall not be convicted if he proves—

(a)that the vehicle did not belong to him and was not in his possession under a contract of hiring or of loan,

(b)that he was using the vehicle in the course of his employment, and

(c)that he neither knew nor had reason to believe that there was not in force in relation to the vehicle such a policy of insurance or security as is mentioned in subsection (1) above.

graham22

3,183 posts

174 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
kambites said:
graham22 said:
Clutching at straws here especially given your age but does your own insurance give driving other cars?
Even if he does, it almost always explicitly states "unless owned or hired by the the policy holder".
Incorrect, wording usually more like: "unless owned or hired to the policy holder under a hire purchase agreement".

Birdster

2,452 posts

112 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
The onus will be on the driver to ensure the car is roadworthy and insured, driven sensibly etc, etc.

If the rental agreement stipulates insurance you should have some recourse and a decent lawyer will be able to argue your case although i would still expect a fine/points. If it doesn't and it is purely a rental without then you will be bang to rights I'm afraid.

I've rented cars from the big companies and have found problems with tyres and tax etc.

kambites

62,177 posts

190 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
graham22 said:
kambites said:
graham22 said:
Clutching at straws here especially given your age but does your own insurance give driving other cars?
Even if he does, it almost always explicitly states "unless owned or hired by the the policy holder".
Incorrect, wording usually more like: "unless owned or hired to the policy holder under a hire purchase agreement".
Hmm, mine (which I have in front of me) certainly say the former.

CYMR0

3,940 posts

169 months

Tuesday 6th August 2013
quotequote all
kambites said:
graham22 said:
kambites said:
graham22 said:
Clutching at straws here especially given your age but does your own insurance give driving other cars?
Even if he does, it almost always explicitly states "unless owned or hired by the the policy holder".
Incorrect, wording usually more like: "unless owned or hired to the policy holder under a hire purchase agreement".
Hmm, mine (which I have in front of me) certainly say the former.
The only policy that matters is the OP's. I'd be willing to bet that it excludes driving other cars for under-25s entirely, and probably excludes ownership and most forms of hire (if not all). However the only sensible advice is for the OP to look at what his policy says (long shot though it would be) and if he doesn't understand what it says, he should ask here for advice.
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