RE: Toyota Hybrid R concept
Discussion
Axionknight said:
Mark Wibble said:
If the BRZ STi has the anticipated power bike, then wouldn't an e-boost GT86 compliment that quite nicely? Similar power but a different way of getting it...
That would be cool yeah, but batteries and the associated equipment are very, very heavy.RemarkLima said:
I wonder if they're referring to the "Super-Capacitor" part of it there - I'm not sure of the physics involved, but if you could get a decent capacitor that doesn't hold a long term charge - So you start your journey with zero electric power, after the first braking you start to charge it and it'll be available. So only available during driving?
That's basically how the systems used in F1 work, but I'm not sure how much use it would be on the road.Nothing to do with GT86, which is maybe a good thing. A supercharged GT86 would probably suit it's character more
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/frankfurt-motor-...
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/frankfurt-motor-...
mugwump00 said:
It's good to see that many other PH readers are far-less reactionary than the micro-Clarksons now writing the site. I'm sure many 'Pistonheads' are happy to not subject their 18mpg show-pony to their daily commute. So why shouldn't the other car really be alternative?
Couldn't agree more! I have a Toyota Hybrid for daily "urban warrior" work and an R172 SLK and Saab 900 turbo for fun. Why not? 
binnerboy said:
Falling Down said:
With a 3.3L V6, a 165BHp motor at the front
that might be acceptable for an american car from the 50s but I mean the ford eco tech can produce the same hp at under half the capacity, I handed my daily steed in for a service (Cayenne Turbo S) and was handed the keys to Lexus hatch hybrid.
What a pleasant driving experiance! No fuel useage below 30mph.
I could happly have one of these if it was used to compliment another sports car.
Hybrid/EV + a petrol sports car is the way forward!
What a pleasant driving experiance! No fuel useage below 30mph.
I could happly have one of these if it was used to compliment another sports car.
Hybrid/EV + a petrol sports car is the way forward!
AmitG said:
binnerboy said:
Falling Down said:
With a 3.3L V6, a 165BHp motor at the front
that might be acceptable for an american car from the 50s but I mean the ford eco tech can produce the same hp at under half the capacity, It is a surprisingly quick car, especially compared to something like the old (now) Range Rover Sport. Thing is, it is a very relaxing car to drive and does not really inspire the driver to hustle it. But when an overtake is required, the pick up is instant.
Edited by Falling Down on Wednesday 7th August 15:37
Axionknight said:
That would be cool yeah, but batteries and the associated equipment are very, very heavy.
A 150kw aka 200bhp electric motor weighs about 50kg. Batteries are heavy, but if they stick supercapacitors in the GT86 I might just have to buy one. They cost £££££ currently so id only expect limited storage. The main benefit is almost instant recharching as they can suck in hundreds of amps from the regen. The performance Hybrid is a reality, but efficiently blending the powertrain sources to a more affordable and mainstream market is not feasible yet.
Packaging and weight are issues for this sort of performance technology to efficiently downsize into a cost effective and smaller chassis.
There are limits to the extent you can downsize the weight and size of electric motors and batteries to achieve a viable performance mix whilst maintaining a respectable CO2 g/km and range on pure electric power.
Packaging and weight are issues for this sort of performance technology to efficiently downsize into a cost effective and smaller chassis.
There are limits to the extent you can downsize the weight and size of electric motors and batteries to achieve a viable performance mix whilst maintaining a respectable CO2 g/km and range on pure electric power.
I can't claim I know Toyoto Motor Corps product strategy but, I've been thinking about this a bit more... Why did Toyota come to Le Mans with a performance Hybrid? Answer: to use some of the motorsport aka marketing budgets, to sell performance hybrid road cars. Which car are they most likely to fit it to, as in which model in their range is closet to a real wheel drive Le Mans racer? A GT86. I'll have mine in White with Blue and Red Denso stripes please ;-)
This does have me excited. We'll just have to wait and see what they come up with. It can't cost that much to integrate say compared to adding an aftermarket supercharger for more horsepower. Maybe a £5-6k increase for say 50-100bhp extra on "boost". The question we'd have to ask - is about weight. Queue google results... chief engineer Tada San has already gone on record that his favoured solution is an electric hybrid. With it quite easy to shave 100kg off the existing model.
They were first to the market with a mass produced hybrid - lets face is although the Prius is boring its the one that has generated most chatter for the past 10 years. Could Toyota actually make Hybrids appealing and be first to offer a desirable Hybrid that helps sell their other mere mortal cars like the Yaris and Prius Plus.
I'd already been eyeing up the GT86 as a lease through the company. So sticking "performance tech" on that also drops the CO2 could save me the price premium in payments to HMRC on company car tax!
If you do the numbers on http://cccfcalculator.hmrc.gov.uk/CCF0.aspx
Current model with 181g/km and list of £24,605 comes in at £2,105 a year in tax.
IF, and this is speculation, say they get that down to 109g/km, and the list is £31,000, its £1,612 a year in tax.
So more horses for £403 less in tax.
Now I also chose 109 g/km as this is just below the 110g/km for claiming enhanced first year capital allowances for hybrid vehicles. In English - you can write off the whole value of the car in year one in the company accounts, thereby avoiding paying 20% in corporation tax on some of your profits. £31k of profits to be exact s you'd instead acqired an asset.. So You also avoid £6,200 of corporation tax - negating any increase in costs of the hybrid solution.
Private buyers - they'll make sense to you in 3 years time on the used market. Expecting tuning mods to include larger supercapacitors, rewinding the motor coils to get more BHP, programming the ECU to allow max revs to reach 12,000 for 30 seconds. etc etc.
Electric is the future, but until we have cheaper supercapacitors I'll take a hybrid thanks.
[edit] to add... looks like it's happening....
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/toyota-gt86-ker...
Calling it KERS and giving you a boost button to press will help sell it ;-)
This does have me excited. We'll just have to wait and see what they come up with. It can't cost that much to integrate say compared to adding an aftermarket supercharger for more horsepower. Maybe a £5-6k increase for say 50-100bhp extra on "boost". The question we'd have to ask - is about weight. Queue google results... chief engineer Tada San has already gone on record that his favoured solution is an electric hybrid. With it quite easy to shave 100kg off the existing model.
They were first to the market with a mass produced hybrid - lets face is although the Prius is boring its the one that has generated most chatter for the past 10 years. Could Toyota actually make Hybrids appealing and be first to offer a desirable Hybrid that helps sell their other mere mortal cars like the Yaris and Prius Plus.
I'd already been eyeing up the GT86 as a lease through the company. So sticking "performance tech" on that also drops the CO2 could save me the price premium in payments to HMRC on company car tax!
If you do the numbers on http://cccfcalculator.hmrc.gov.uk/CCF0.aspx
Current model with 181g/km and list of £24,605 comes in at £2,105 a year in tax.
IF, and this is speculation, say they get that down to 109g/km, and the list is £31,000, its £1,612 a year in tax.
So more horses for £403 less in tax.
Now I also chose 109 g/km as this is just below the 110g/km for claiming enhanced first year capital allowances for hybrid vehicles. In English - you can write off the whole value of the car in year one in the company accounts, thereby avoiding paying 20% in corporation tax on some of your profits. £31k of profits to be exact s you'd instead acqired an asset.. So You also avoid £6,200 of corporation tax - negating any increase in costs of the hybrid solution.
Private buyers - they'll make sense to you in 3 years time on the used market. Expecting tuning mods to include larger supercapacitors, rewinding the motor coils to get more BHP, programming the ECU to allow max revs to reach 12,000 for 30 seconds. etc etc.
Electric is the future, but until we have cheaper supercapacitors I'll take a hybrid thanks.
[edit] to add... looks like it's happening....
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/toyota-gt86-ker...
Calling it KERS and giving you a boost button to press will help sell it ;-)
Edited by TransverseTight on Wednesday 7th August 21:03
Technomatt said:
The performance Hybrid is a reality, but efficiently blending the powertrain sources to a more affordable and mainstream market is not feasible yet.
Packaging and weight are issues for this sort of performance technology to efficiently downsize into a cost effective and smaller chassis.
There are limits to the extent you can downsize the weight and size of electric motors and batteries to achieve a viable performance mix whilst maintaining a respectable CO2 g/km and range on pure electric power.
I'm not so sure it's that hard.. Packaging and weight are issues for this sort of performance technology to efficiently downsize into a cost effective and smaller chassis.
There are limits to the extent you can downsize the weight and size of electric motors and batteries to achieve a viable performance mix whilst maintaining a respectable CO2 g/km and range on pure electric power.
Have a look at this graphic of how the TS030 works...
http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/images/tmg/thr-gr...
Basically the electric motor sits in the gearbox. So it simply adds extra turning force when required. Or works as a variable draw regen when braking. The amount of regen, and therefore drag, can be balanced against the front traditional brakes.
Lets face it - the other reason Toyota are running the TS030 is to develop the technology faster and to be able to stick the the GT86-KERS brochure... Le Mans inspired technology, Innit!
The GT86 is the first new car I've wanted to buy in ages. I'm quite happy buying 5 year old cars normally as there's plenty of great cars available cheap. But there's nothing with KERS ;-)
I think the key advantage is the low speed boosting capability. 0-60 is where it matters for getting sales, not 60-100. No need for the engine to spin up, electric motors have full torque from zero RPM.
Seriously I have been waiting for a decent electric car / hybrid for 10 years. To stick one in the car I was most likely to buy next anyway would be well, I'm grinning from ear to ear at the thought of it.
Go on, you know it makes sense.
Sorry to be dominating this thread but there's a lot of info our there....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM26Aet0MKo
100kg for the hybrid system in the TS030. That's 300hp and needs to carry a car at 200mph down the mulsanne!
However there's a lot of stuff out there about BMW and Toyota working jointly on a new lightweight supercar. Could this become the new BMW i8 and Toyota Supra based on a common chassis maybe?
Would they swap some carbon reinforced plastic panels in the GT86? Like the i3? Could be done. The list of the i3 isn't that high considering.
Either way I give up speculating and will just have to wait and see. As a conflicted ecoworrier / petrol head, I might be able to have my cake and eat it at last.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM26Aet0MKo
100kg for the hybrid system in the TS030. That's 300hp and needs to carry a car at 200mph down the mulsanne!
However there's a lot of stuff out there about BMW and Toyota working jointly on a new lightweight supercar. Could this become the new BMW i8 and Toyota Supra based on a common chassis maybe?
Would they swap some carbon reinforced plastic panels in the GT86? Like the i3? Could be done. The list of the i3 isn't that high considering.
Either way I give up speculating and will just have to wait and see. As a conflicted ecoworrier / petrol head, I might be able to have my cake and eat it at last.
Escort Si-130 said:
Toyota PrizeAss, I mean Prius, gets ZERO rating, every time!!!
And the price of 4 sea bass this week is £10. Did you read any of the article or thread before posting that or just look at the picture. You need the toyota prius thread....
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Nothing to do with Clarkson, it is just a pathetic hypocritical conscious ass hole type car. Plus its shape is friggin ugly and styling f
ktarded. Its almost as bad as the G-whizz and smart ass car.
ktarded. Its almost as bad as the G-whizz and smart ass car.mugwump00 said:
It's good to see that many other PH readers are far-less reactionary than the micro-Clarksons now writing the site. I'm sure many 'Pistonheads' are happy to not subject their 18mpg show-pony to their daily commute. So why shouldn't the other car really be alternative?
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