RE: BMW M135i vs Toyota GT86
Discussion
k-ink said:
nickfrog said:
While I appreciate this is not a forum for driving enthusiasts, you may want to consider that some actually don't care about the badge or if a car is ugly.
Personally, I think a 5-dr 114d ES in white is indeed a ugly Euro box. On the other hand, I find a 3-dr M135i very attractive, however many parts it shares with it.
I will definitely buy one despite its badge or despite the fact that some find it ugly, but I appreciate I am in a minority.
I see what you tried to do there. However the BMW is just a tarted up shopping / family / repmobile. It was never conceived from a blank sheet of paper as a pure drivers sports car. It is just a normal car with a decent engine. If it only came with a slow diesel or four pot no one would even bother talking about it. No one will buy the BMW for the thrill of pure sporty driving. It is a compromise and nothing more. Granted, it is probably a pretty good all rounder if you have a family and a dog to haul about.Personally, I think a 5-dr 114d ES in white is indeed a ugly Euro box. On the other hand, I find a 3-dr M135i very attractive, however many parts it shares with it.
I will definitely buy one despite its badge or despite the fact that some find it ugly, but I appreciate I am in a minority.
Edited by nickfrog on Thursday 29th August 18:08
The entry level GT86 is just the start. Yet despite its lack of bragging right numbers it is still regarded as one of the finest steers around. It is a car bought by real driving enthusiasts who put driver involvement above all else. It is not about the badge, or numbers, or practicality. It is stunning in my eyes. It will only get better when the faster versions arrive.
ps
But each to their own. I am very happy for vast hoards to stick to their German wagons. Been there, done that
Not sure what you mean by "real driving enthusiasts" ? As opposed to what ? I come from a motorsport background and I've been lucky enough to drive many race/track cars to their limits of lat grip and traction, so do I qualify ?
Road cars are different. They're ALL a compromise. Including the GT86 (which incidentally I haven't even criticised, so I am not too sure why you feel the need to convince me of its virtues, although I am confident I would cook its (road) brakes in 4/5 hot laps). All I am saying is that I don't care about brand/image. The same applies about country of origin BTW. I don't care where it comes from. I don't believe in stereotypes (have you driven an Artega of late ?). The M135i for me is a superb and very good looking road car, that's all.
VeeFource said:
As a design engineer I can assure you that budget and therefore resources can make all the difference to the performance of a product.
Budget irrelevant?
In the case of the Caterham being the better drivers car, yes the budget is irrelevant Budget irrelevant?
Edited by VeeFource on Friday 30th August 20:29
k-ink said:
I see what you tried to do there. However the BMW is just a tarted up shopping / family / repmobile. It was never conceived from a blank sheet of paper as a pure drivers sports car.
So what's your opinion of the 1M Coupe then?A tarted up 1 series with a Z4 engine, M3 brakes, E46 diff, silly flared arches and M3 suspension.
Yet one of BMWs finest moments.
Rawwr said:
Again, enough for what?
Again..... I said for having fun. I love driving, driving is fun, for me not having quite 'enough' torque/power is less fun, you can keep saying 'for what?', but it will be the same answer. People can keep banging on about how its (grunt) not important, and to degree I would actually agree with them. I would much rather have a relatively medium powered lotus elise over a lardy 6 litre AMG. But the difference remains that the elise, whilst it has a great chassis, great poise, it also has decent pace, this is what makes it so fun, ok its wholly impractical but thats not my point. (By the way I dont own an Elise and never have, its just my example). The GT86 whilst a great concept, for me has slightly fallen short of the mark to be a great sportscar up there with the rest of them because its somewhat slow pace.You dont have to agree, it my opinion. That is all.
I agree with those who have highlighted the price of the GT86, its always been the problem for me as a better comparison here is down to the MX-5 2.0 sport rather than up or across to various performance cars. Its a whole lot of dough over an MX-5 for slightly more power, a roof and subjectively better driving dynamics (don't know how true that last bit is but it seems to be claimed).
If one can get the arse of the GT86 to move on a roundabout when no one is around, just by sticking it in and getting on the loud pedal then it has enough power to be fun IMHO, and by this I don't mean approaching at crazy speeds and throwing the car at the corner. Never driven one so no idea how achievable this is so can those who have testify to its arse wagging abilities?
If one can get the arse of the GT86 to move on a roundabout when no one is around, just by sticking it in and getting on the loud pedal then it has enough power to be fun IMHO, and by this I don't mean approaching at crazy speeds and throwing the car at the corner. Never driven one so no idea how achievable this is so can those who have testify to its arse wagging abilities?
g3org3y said:
jjr1 said:
The bmw is just s
t boring.
t boring. 
320bhp RWD
0-60 in 4.6 (Autocar)
Universal praise amongst all motoring journalists
Not sure what kind of lifestyle you lead to suggest the above is 'boring'.
g3org3y said:
320bhp RWD
0-60 in 4.6 (Autocar)
Universal praise amongst all motoring journalists
Not sure what kind of lifestyle you lead to suggest the above is 'boring'.
Gt86 should won this one.
Bladedancer said:
Ahem... what was the point of this comparison?
You are comparing much more expensive family hatch that seats 4 and has a decent boot with a light, 2 people, tail happy coupe.
Only thing in common between the two is RWD.
Are you doing some kind of long running ad campaign to promote 135i?
This exactly. A completely pointless comparison. If I was in the market for a sports car, the GT86 would probably be high on my list and a definite test drive candidate. If I wanted a seriously quick and practical family hatch, I'd probably consider an M135i (provided that I could afford a Halfords makeover to improve its dire looks You are comparing much more expensive family hatch that seats 4 and has a decent boot with a light, 2 people, tail happy coupe.
Only thing in common between the two is RWD.
Are you doing some kind of long running ad campaign to promote 135i?
)Escort3500 said:
Bladedancer said:
Ahem... what was the point of this comparison?
You are comparing much more expensive family hatch that seats 4 and has a decent boot with a light, 2 people, tail happy coupe.
Only thing in common between the two is RWD.
Are you doing some kind of long running ad campaign to promote 135i?
This exactly. A completely pointless comparison. If I was in the market for a sports car, the GT86 would probably be high on my list and a definite test drive candidate. If I wanted a seriously quick and practical family hatch, I'd probably consider an M135i (provided that I could afford a Halfords makeover to improve its dire looks You are comparing much more expensive family hatch that seats 4 and has a decent boot with a light, 2 people, tail happy coupe.
Only thing in common between the two is RWD.
Are you doing some kind of long running ad campaign to promote 135i?
)xRIEx said:
I'd be interested to hear current owners' experiences too.
Still loving the car (nearly a year & 9000 miles in). Definitely got a split personality- comfortable to and from work in traffic, but turns into a beast when you press the buttons and gun it.However: it is a little too refined sometimes; silly sound synthesiser would have been better replaced with a noisier exhaust as standard; getting the tail moving would probably be better with an LSD; handling can be a little unsettled (especially on run flat winters). Might go for a dealer fit LSD if they release one, and considering the M Performance exhaust to improve the noise. Nothing's ever perfect though, and for being a hot hatch the M135i is pretty awesome. Planning on keeping it for the long haul or until/if a genuine competitor appears (> 4 pot, RWD, hatch, <£40K).
k-ink said:
I see what you tried to do there. However the BMW is just a tarted up shopping / family / repmobile. It was never conceived from a blank sheet of paper as a pure drivers sports car. It is just a normal car with a decent engine. If it only came with a slow diesel or four pot no one would even bother talking about it. No one will buy the BMW for the thrill of pure sporty driving. It is a compromise and nothing more. Granted, it is probably a pretty good all rounder if you have a family and a dog to haul about.
Careful, you'll upset him! Edited by k-ink on Friday 30th August 18:30
General Zod said:
Still loving the car (nearly a year & 9000 miles in). Definitely got a split personality- comfortable to and from work in traffic, but turns into a beast when you press the buttons and gun it.
However: it is a little too refined sometimes; silly sound synthesiser would have been better replaced with a noisier exhaust as standard; getting the tail moving would probably be better with an LSD; handling can be a little unsettled (especially on run flat winters). Might go for a dealer fit LSD if they release one, and considering the M Performance exhaust to improve the noise. Nothing's ever perfect though, and for being a hot hatch the M135i is pretty awesome. Planning on keeping it for the long haul or until/if a genuine competitor appears (> 4 pot, RWD, hatch, <£40K).
You are not going to find BMW lsd for these cars. Quaife is your friend tho.However: it is a little too refined sometimes; silly sound synthesiser would have been better replaced with a noisier exhaust as standard; getting the tail moving would probably be better with an LSD; handling can be a little unsettled (especially on run flat winters). Might go for a dealer fit LSD if they release one, and considering the M Performance exhaust to improve the noise. Nothing's ever perfect though, and for being a hot hatch the M135i is pretty awesome. Planning on keeping it for the long haul or until/if a genuine competitor appears (> 4 pot, RWD, hatch, <£40K).
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