RE: BMW M135i vs Toyota GT86

[Rick1.8t]

BMW looks like a 2.0d shopping car, (and an ugly one at that!) Toyota looks lovely.

Toyota has quite a 'low tech' engine which cannot even compare with the fantastic powertrain of the BMW, lets be honest, the Toyota is not slow but it is certainly not performance car fast in terms of modern cars, especially with its low torque figure.

Different strokes for different folks, i love the Toyota and really hope they bring out an STI BRZ, i would be all over that like a filthy rash.

Subaru would sell a lot of cars if they deliver a 280bhp 2ltr BRZ, i loved my impreza for its noise, idiotic styling, road presence and all-round ability, a BRZ turbo would be like a better looking, more exciting version of that, it would certainly 'fit in' more than the old impreza platform too and appeal to more mature drivers.

[famfarrow]

Camaro would certainly mix it up nicely!

Though the temptation to have a GT86 with change spare to stick a charger on it would be sorely tempting if the stock care felt too anaemic after a few years.

GT86 by a whisker for me, the looks seal it really.

[BS75]

10-15 years ago you wouldn't have pitched the Corolla 2.0 GTi hatchback against the 3.0 twin turbo Supra, so how does this comparison work?

I love the Toyota but can't see how this is a fair when it is a small engined, low output/high fun coupe from a low/middle end manufacturer and the BMW is a premium brand hot hatch which costs far more and comes with 1.5 times the cylinders and horsepower.

It would make more sense to compare the GT to the current MX5...

[kambites]

BS75 said:

10-15 years ago you wouldn't have pitched the Corolla 2.0 GTi hatchback against the 3.0 twin turbo Supra, so how does this comparison work?

There was a rather bigger difference in price between the Corolla and Supra, than between the 1-series and GT86.

[Dr S]

Just drove a GT86 rental car. Steering, gearbox, chassis and engine responsiveness are absolutely superb. It really is an amazing car that is fun to drive, easy to place and absolutely predictive in its responses. Even power is no issue for me in the real world for me.

Engine noise, however, is the one big let-down. Who on planet earth signed-off this sound? Why does it not at all relate to the lovely burbly boxer sound we have come to know and appreciate from Imprezas is beyond me...

[kambites]

Dr S said:

Engine noise, however, is the one big let-down. Who on planet earth signed-off this sound? Why does it not at all relate to the lovely burbly boxer sound we have come to know and appreciate from Imprezas is beyond me...

Because you can't use unequal length headers on a normally aspirated engine without losing your exhaust scavenging and hence quite a lot of both power and efficiency.

The sound from an Impreza is not a "boxer sound", it's an "unequal length header sound". You could make an inline four sound like that with a convoluted enough manifold.

[SturdyHSV]

BS75 said:

BorkFactor said:

"Would you rather drive a Camaro than either of these two?"

Yes. Yes I would

Me too Seems a bit silly to throw a comment like that in there - I spent the whole article dreaming about V8 musclecars...

Yep, I stopped reading at this point. Ah well, moving on...

[BS75]

kambites said:

There was a rather bigger difference in price between the Corolla and Supra, than between the 1-series and GT86.

Price schmice, it's still comparing apples and bananas (a coupe, a hatch, a 3.0 and a 2.0)...for the money you could also have a 996 C4S, a used Bandit, a rail season ticket AND a fancy mountain bike. Doesn't make it a sensible comparison as buyers in each scenario are after very different things.

[CDP]

kambites said:

Dr S said:

Engine noise, however, is the one big let-down. Who on planet earth signed-off this sound? Why does it not at all relate to the lovely burbly boxer sound we have come to know and appreciate from Imprezas is beyond me...

Because you can't use unequal length headers on a normally aspirated engine without losing your exhaust scavenging and hence quite a lot of both power and efficiency.

The sound from an Impreza is not a "boxer sound", it's an "unequal length header sound". You could make an inline four sound like that with a convoluted enough manifold.

Beatles and vans make a similar flat four sound. My water cooled T25 looked like it's headers were pretty similar lengths and that made the classic boxer sound too. That engine was far better suited to a sports car...

[otolith]

Our old naturally aspirated Impreza didn't make that noise.

[The Don of Croy]

I'm amazed that the BMW engine emits 'only' 188g against 181 for the Subaru flat four - two more cylinders and 50% extra capacity yet such a small difference in 'naughty emissions'.

Just to add - why not save even more money with used a Cayman 3.2S and still have more fun?

[JuanGandini]

The Don of Croy said:

I'm amazed that the BMW engine emits 'only' 188g against 181 for the Subaru flat four - two more cylinders and 50% extra capacity yet such a small difference in 'naughty emissions'.

Just to add - why not save even more money with used a Cayman 3.2S and still have more fun?

175g for the auto. The 188g figure relates to the manual version.

[otolith]

kambites said:

Dr S said:

Engine noise, however, is the one big let-down. Who on planet earth signed-off this sound? Why does it not at all relate to the lovely burbly boxer sound we have come to know and appreciate from Imprezas is beyond me...

Because you can't use unequal length headers on a normally aspirated engine without losing your exhaust scavenging and hence quite a lot of both power and efficiency.

They could make it sound like that by playing fake engine noise through the car's stereo, like the BMW does.

[Wolands Advocate]

LancerG said:

Any car that has menu's for different settings of eco/sport/sport+ is not a car I want to own

Why not? Casting all concerns about melting ice caps and polar bears to one side for a minute, EcoPro is, for example, very traffic jam-friendly. The deadened throttle response makes it child's play to trickle along, even in a manual. I really like the ability to alter the throttle response as well as the damper settings.

I'd see the argument for analogue connectivity in an out-and-out sportscar. But not in what even BMW considers a "semi-skimmed M". This car is good because it gets the compromise right, not because it isn't compromised.

[russy01]

JuanGandini said:

The Don of Croy said:

I'm amazed that the BMW engine emits 'only' 188g against 181 for the Subaru flat four - two more cylinders and 50% extra capacity yet such a small difference in 'naughty emissions'.

Just to add - why not save even more money with used a Cayman 3.2S and still have more fun?

175g for the auto. The 188g figure relates to the manual version.

I assume this is because of gimmicks such as Start n Stop etc? If you went by capacity the GT86 would emit 270g as a 3.0 - so 50% more than the BMW. Surely BMW cant be that far ahead in terms of "eco-ing" their engines?

[Frances The Mute]

The Don of Croy said:

I'm amazed that the BMW engine emits 'only' 188g against 181 for the Subaru flat four - two more cylinders and 50% extra capacity yet such a small difference in 'naughty emissions'.

The rest of the industry are pretty much scratching their heads over that one, too. BMW have some seriously talented engineers.

[Zed Ed]

Frances The Mute said:

BMW have some seriously talented engineers.

That's one explanation.

[justa1972]

I kind of like the not that fast but great fun ethos of the Toyota - my driving licence certainly would...

Combine this with the looks of the BMW and its an easier choice than it should be

I just couldn't live with looks of the 1 series - it's hideous

[anonymous-user]

Captain Muppet said:

Max_Torque said:

Whilst i applaud the thinking being the back-to-basics GT-86, i'm afraid i just couldn't live with it's asthmatic and dull sounding engine on a day to day basis. And whilst it might feel more sporting, these days, on public roads, who gets to tear around like their ass is on fire all the time anyway?

So the faster car is your choice because the slow car is too fast for today's roads?

It's not really about speed per say, more about "accessible" performance. For 95% of the time when just trundling around, the quality of the BMW powertrain still shines through, whereas frankly, the scoob engine sounds, well, like a washing machine, most of the time. Then add in the fact that the one time you want to zoom away from some traffic lights, the GT-86 is going to have to be absolutely thrashed to even stay level with an a 2l tdi these days. I imagine, couple of times a year, when the right road and circumstances presented themselves, i'd wish i was driving the GT, but for the other 360 days, the BMW is really the better car imo (assuming you can afford it obviously)

[GTEYE]

Having recently tried a GT86 with a view to potential purchase and not being that impressed, and not really wanting the (real world fuel bills of the M135i and slightly short range from the small tank), my solution was an almost new 1,000 mile 330d M Sport Coupe.

Much better looks than the 1 series (IMHO!) and a much nicer place to sit than the GT86 (IMHO!)

Decent sounding straight six, 400lb torque and 45mpg available...

Just saying...