RE: BMW M135i vs Toyota GT86

[jcl]

Amirhussain said:

BMW all day, do like the GT86 though, but for me no contest, only if the GT86 was a turbocharged 300 bhp car.

If that was the case the 86 would be bloody quick and if it was cheaper than the BMW it would be the performance car of the century.

[copperman05]

I've test driven both (the GT86 long before I thought of getting a M135i, mainly to compare the GT86 to my very similar 944 S2), I liked the GT86 but it seemed overprised at £25,000, when I asked the dealer if their was any movement on price he said no. The concept is a good one but the execution poor, it really needs more than 149ftlb torque, no you dont need to have masses of power to have fun, but I believe Toyota have gone too far the other way, not much point if you have a great chassis and cant make the most of it, and no fitting thin Prius tyres does not make up for it...

The M135i is all about that engine (and the speed/noise it generates), this thing has more torque than the 991 GT3 for heaven sake, without it I wouldn't even look at the 1 series, I'm not even a big BMW fan but the whole package, the fact that its a great all rounder that can genuinely keep up with M3's at the Nordschleife makes it a compelling choice for petrol heads. The looks aren't as bad as many make out, it looks better than the previous 1 series (which now looks dated in comparison). I've now ordered a M135i, to top it off my dealer gave me a cracking 19.5% off, making my spec'd £34k car just £27.5, which compared to the GT86 makes it even more of a performance bargain.

Edited by copperman05 on Tuesday 27th August 17:33

[martin mrt]

Looks are a subjective thing, the 1series has grown on me.

Whoever chooses a GT 86 over an M135 needs their head read IMO

[StottyZr]

DaveJH's GT86 is worth a look

He bought a GT86 and made it his own, its a very good M135i competitor IMO.

[zebra]

SturdyHSV said:

BS75 said:

BorkFactor said:

"Would you rather drive a Camaro than either of these two?"

Yes. Yes I would

Me too Seems a bit silly to throw a comment like that in there - I spent the whole article dreaming about V8 musclecars...

Yep, I stopped reading at this point. Ah well, moving on...

But this article is comparing the GT86 to the 135i.

There will be another comparison along next week with the 135i which will not mention the Camaro.

Message the mods and ask for a Camaro v 135i head to head. I would be happy to read the comparison; it is just not relevant here unfortunately.


Back on topic.

Tough choice. I probably would end up with the 135i. The GT86 does not feel special enough for personal needs but I have an Exige sitting on the garage, so that makes me plump for the Beemer as an everyday car.

If I didnt have the Exige and I needed to have one of the two cars being compared I would find it very difficult but may well still settle on the Beemer. If there is an upgraded GT86 then a 're-comparison' could be done and I may well change my allegiance.

[DaveJH]

StottyZr said:

DaveJH's GT86 is worth a look

He bought a GT86 and made it his own, its a very good M135i competitor IMO.

I can almost see myself offering my car to PistonHeads to do the comparison (once I have my new rear exhaust fitted, and final mapping done end of October)

[otolith]

martin mrt said:

Looks are a subjective thing, the 1series has grown on me.

Whoever chooses a GT 86 over an M135 needs their head read IMO

Depends entirely on your priorities and what kind of car you like.

[Swordman]

I'm happy I went with the GT86. At the end of the day, I get used to fast cars quickly and after a while, the whole novelty speed thing wears off. Fun, on the other hand, is always fun! And believe me, the GT86 on the ragged edge is quite a thing.

Also, the styling of the car makes you look back on it when you've parked up and are walking away.

[copperman05]

So you can't have fun and fast?

[kambites]

CDP said:

kambites said:

Dr S said:

Engine noise, however, is the one big let-down. Who on planet earth signed-off this sound? Why does it not at all relate to the lovely burbly boxer sound we have come to know and appreciate from Imprezas is beyond me...

Because you can't use unequal length headers on a normally aspirated engine without losing your exhaust scavenging and hence quite a lot of both power and efficiency.

The sound from an Impreza is not a "boxer sound", it's an "unequal length header sound". You could make an inline four sound like that with a convoluted enough manifold.

Beatles and vans make a similar flat four sound. My water cooled T25 looked like it's headers were pretty similar lengths and that made the classic boxer sound too. That engine was far better suited to a sports car...

If they make that noise, they have unequal length headers. Any four-pot four-stroke fires twice every revolution with an even gap between the combustions; the reason that an Impreza sounds as it does, is that the rear cylinders have shorter exhaust headers than the front ones, so the exhaust pulses alternately travel long and short distances to the tips, so you get bang, bang, gap, bang, bang, gap,... that slightly offbeat noise. If you make the exhaust paths the same on all cylinders, the exhaust nose will be indistinguishable from an in-line four (as in the GT86).

I suspect the old Beetles and VW buses rather pre-date the idea of exhaust scavenging and so use the most convenient paths available for the headers. I suspect using very unequal length headers on the GT86 would drop peak volumetric efficiency down from about 105% to about 90%; which would lead to a similar percentage drop in power and a significant drop in economy.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 27th August 18:08

[rb5er]

StottyZr said:

DaveJH's GT86 is worth a look

He bought a GT86 and made it his own, its a very good M135i competitor IMO.

Thats how they should be standard, lovely.

Much more interesting than the unbelievably ugly ducking m135i.

[TWPC]

"That torque deficit can be frustrating when exiting corners (ok, trying to skid)"

Nicely written Mr Bird.

The cars are great but its refreshing to read prose in a motoring article that improves my day. Doesn't happen often nowadays.

Regarding the comparison of the M135i to cars in other classes, like the GT86; I think its a good idea. The division of the market into 'segments' feels like something driven by marketeers or manufacturers, not customers.

[JohnT993]

Had a couple of drives in this particular M135i over the last few weeks... very impressive but left be a bit numb.
Admittedly I didn't get a chance to really chase it up a good road but it still lacked excitement.
For context I have an Exige and had a 993 before that so I am stuck in analogue mode (and happily so!) but I do drive other more ordinary/modern cars regularly.
The M135i was immensely quick, but I'm rarely in a rush to get where I'm going so what's the point in going fast if it doesn't FEEL fast!
I'm a bmw fan, but was left a bit cold, the noise sounded distant even when compared my old bog-standard E46 330i, the (auto 8sp) gearbox was amazing but added to the playstation feel and robbed me of a connection with the engine. All of this left me missing out on the one thing I really miss about bmw's, the amazing straight six engines!
I preferred the linear non turbo manual 3 litre in aforementioned 330i, slower but more satisfying.

It's still a lovely device though, and a lot of respect to the buyers, hope to get a go in a new Cayman soon which will be very interesting and hopefully answer the question, do I just not like any new cars! ;-)

[JohnT993]

TWPC said:

"That torque deficit can be frustrating when exiting corners (ok, trying to skid)"

Nicely written Mr Bird.

The cars are great but its refreshing to read prose in a motoring article that improves my day. Doesn't happen often nowadays.

Regarding the comparison of the M135i to cars in other classes, like the GT86; I think its a good idea. The division of the market into 'segments' feels like something driven by marketeers or manufacturers, not customers.

>>>
couldn't agree more, people are prepared to consider a wide range of cars if they feel it is worth the impracticality... on my last list there was everything from an old B5 RS4 to an lotus elise, couldn't be more different but I considered both.

[Radish]

But I don't want a 1 Series even if it goes like stink. I await the test against the Cayman with interest; no doubt the M135i will leave it standing but the Cayman is a nicer place to be and is not to be confused with my auntie's 118d. By the way, I've put my money where my mouth is - the Cayman arrives next month.

[PearlWhiteGT86]

A very good review of two cars.
I have had my GT86 for nearly 6 months now and i am very pleased with it.

It would be great to see comparison test with GT86 Turbo v the BMW

I am going to be a biased view on the performance but it is fast enough

where is does well is listed below in no order

Looks are great
Smooth engine likes to be reved
handling
Fun at low speeds
Driving position
not bad MPG
not many on the road
5 warranty
My dealer is very good

No real bad points

[T1547]

The GT86, fun as I'm sure it is just isn't worth the asking price IMO. The looks don't do it for me, interior seems tacky and just seems like the same old Jap coupe designs since the 90s. Kind of feel like times have moved on since then..

Personally, the BMW looks like a well put together machine inside and out. Coupled with the better engine, better auto gearbox and more pace it's the one I'd choose. Then maybe a £5k S2000 for open air hooning. Ultimately what does the GT86 do that an S2k doesnt?

[Wolands Advocate]

GTEYE said:

Having recently tried a GT86 with a view to potential purchase and not being that impressed, and not really wanting the (real world fuel bills of the M135i and slightly short range from the small tank), my solution was an almost new 1,000 mile 330d M Sport Coupe.

Much better looks than the 1 series (IMHO!) and a much nicer place to sit than the GT86 (IMHO!)

Decent sounding straight six, 400lb torque and 45mpg available...

Just saying...

I bought a manual LCI 330d two years ago and bailed inside 3 months. It was quick, reasonably economical (but nowhere near as economical as you might expect) capable and good-looking. But, even with the manual gearbox, it was also just too sensible and dull by half, and reaffirmed that I don't much care for diesel power-delivery. Thankfully it pretty much didn't depreciate in those three months so it wasn't as expensive a mistake as it could have been.

[otolith]

T1547 said:

Ultimately what does the GT86 do that an S2k doesnt?

If you want to find out, pop down to your local Honda dealer and ask if you can order a new one.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Having just read the first para I can happily say that actually, yes I would rather drive a Camaro over these two!

And a 370z for that matter which I think is better looking and makes a lovely noise. So what if its not as quick round a track.