RE: BMW M135i vs Porsche Cayman
Discussion
nickfrog said:
Yes I agree, and the answer was always going to be a predictable no in absolute terms.
However, most people are limited in their budget. And that's where the article is kind of ambiguous. The Cayman is in fact 45% more expensive than the BMW when spec is equalised/minimised after discount (£28,500 vs £41,600). And that's a best case scenario with low spec. This would actually be closer to 50% for a higher spec.
So does that make the BMW a better sports car ? Obviously not, but it does put things in perspective and makes the BMW the bargain performance car of the decade IMO.
Well argued but as a Renaultsport Megane 265 is consistently found to be superior to the M135i as a "sports" car and in reality after discount is maybe £6000 cheaper it depends how you define Value.However, most people are limited in their budget. And that's where the article is kind of ambiguous. The Cayman is in fact 45% more expensive than the BMW when spec is equalised/minimised after discount (£28,500 vs £41,600). And that's a best case scenario with low spec. This would actually be closer to 50% for a higher spec.
So does that make the BMW a better sports car ? Obviously not, but it does put things in perspective and makes the BMW the bargain performance car of the decade IMO.
Personally I reckon the best "Value" performance bargain of the decade is the Nissan GTR. Proper Supercar performance and world class engineering for less than half of any realistic competitor.
annoys the hell out of me that people keep commenting 'why are you comparing these two cars they're different!'
THIS IS PISTONHEADS! if you want similar priced and type of cars reviewed go elsewhere, pistonheaders are all about weighing up if it worth making sacrifices (financial, practicality, looks, brand etc.) for the fizz of the way things drive on the occasional clear bit of A/B road!
as aforementioned I SERIOUSLY considered 4x4 twin turbo estate cars, 'uber' hatches, subaru p1's, caterham 7's as my last purchase, and I come on this website as i know I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE!!!
Please PH's, don't listen, continue embracing irrationality... compare apples with oranges!
THIS IS PISTONHEADS! if you want similar priced and type of cars reviewed go elsewhere, pistonheaders are all about weighing up if it worth making sacrifices (financial, practicality, looks, brand etc.) for the fizz of the way things drive on the occasional clear bit of A/B road!
as aforementioned I SERIOUSLY considered 4x4 twin turbo estate cars, 'uber' hatches, subaru p1's, caterham 7's as my last purchase, and I come on this website as i know I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE!!!
Please PH's, don't listen, continue embracing irrationality... compare apples with oranges!
M135i said:
Forget the £37K M135i, right there is where it loses it's most amazing feature, it's performance per pound! I have recently ordered a 3Dr M135i, Manual (yes the 8sp Auto is good, but the manual is sublime too), metallic, driver comfort pack (cruise & sensors), sun protection pack. So, light on options but not exactly spartan. Remember the standard car gets leather, dual climate, BT, Dab, Xenons etc etc. OTR Price £31,915, price paid after negotiations £26,000 
These discounts are available easily right now and most definitely not a one off. At £26k this amazing little car offers a whole lot of fun and performance.
Well done that man, that's 18.5% as many have said is achievable but by staying light on the options as (you mention)obviously you've done superbly there, at £26k that is a cracking motor.These discounts are available easily right now and most definitely not a one off. At £26k this amazing little car offers a whole lot of fun and performance.
For me you've stripped these threads back to what was so remarkable about this car at the start & what has got lost in all the arguments etc, it's value, as you said
big_rob_sydney said:
40k and it only does 0-62 in 5.7 seconds? And its a "winner" in a performance contest.
Wow, Subarus and Mitsubishis from 20 years ago were faster. I suspect I could pick up a stock standard car for about a grand that would do the porker. What a joke.
If all you are looking for in a car is 0-60 then you might be best to do so. Its not what the Caymen is about. Wow, Subarus and Mitsubishis from 20 years ago were faster. I suspect I could pick up a stock standard car for about a grand that would do the porker. What a joke.
Thats like saying why spend 40K on a decent Caterham as they run out of breath at 130mph when you could get a 20 year old 325i that will sit at 140mph for a grand.
big_rob_sydney said:
40k and it only does 0-62 in 5.7 seconds? And its a "winner" in a performance contest.
Wow, Subarus and Mitsubishis from 20 years ago were faster. I suspect I could pick up a stock standard car for about a grand that would do the porker. What a joke.
Yes but it's a "sports car" as per PH's official definition, whatever that is.Wow, Subarus and Mitsubishis from 20 years ago were faster. I suspect I could pick up a stock standard car for about a grand that would do the porker. What a joke.
big_rob_sydney said:
40k and it only does 0-62 in 5.7 seconds? And its a "winner" in a performance contest.
Who said anything about a "performance contest"? If you want straight-line performance, buy a superbike. Cars are about so much more than that (not that bikes aren't, mind you). JohnT993 said:
annoys the hell out of me that people keep commenting 'why are you comparing these two cars they're different!'
THIS IS PISTONHEADS! if you want similar priced and type of cars reviewed go elsewhere, pistonheaders are all about weighing up if it worth making sacrifices (financial, practicality, looks, brand etc.) for the fizz of the way things drive on the occasional clear bit of A/B road!
as aforementioned I SERIOUSLY considered 4x4 twin turbo estate cars, 'uber' hatches, subaru p1's, caterham 7's as my last purchase, and I come on this website as i know I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE!!!
Please PH's, don't listen, continue embracing irrationality... compare apples with oranges!
+1!!!THIS IS PISTONHEADS! if you want similar priced and type of cars reviewed go elsewhere, pistonheaders are all about weighing up if it worth making sacrifices (financial, practicality, looks, brand etc.) for the fizz of the way things drive on the occasional clear bit of A/B road!
as aforementioned I SERIOUSLY considered 4x4 twin turbo estate cars, 'uber' hatches, subaru p1's, caterham 7's as my last purchase, and I come on this website as i know I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE!!!
Please PH's, don't listen, continue embracing irrationality... compare apples with oranges!
Bladedancer said:
135 has 4 doors and a boot (small but still) in a hatch body. It IS still a family hatch. Hot-hatch like Cupra R Focus ST etc but a hatch nonetheless. Engine doesn't change that.
So you're only talking about performance? Is that it? 0-60 is ALL that matters? If you only care about performance then go right ahead, compare whatever you want. This 0-60 is lower than that. This track time lower than another. Done. And of little use.
Mostly because GTR wins it all
But performance is hardly ever the ONLY factor, is it? That is why there's 911 and M5 - because some people need 4 seats and a boot and if you consider the WHOLE car, not just performance, comparison between 911 and M5 makes little sense as they have very little in common apart from their performance.
I didn't deny it wasn't a hatchback just stated it wasn't 'just' one, don't think you can argue with that. I'm not only talking about performance, its never just about 0-60 times but to state you cant compare one performance car against another just because one is a Sports car and the other a uber hot hatch is just rubbish. Re the M5 and 911 (I actually was comparing the M3 and 911), their similar performance is exactly why they would be considered dont you see? Yes they are different but still comparable and that the whole argument here.So you're only talking about performance? Is that it? 0-60 is ALL that matters? If you only care about performance then go right ahead, compare whatever you want. This 0-60 is lower than that. This track time lower than another. Done. And of little use.
Mostly because GTR wins it all
But performance is hardly ever the ONLY factor, is it? That is why there's 911 and M5 - because some people need 4 seats and a boot and if you consider the WHOLE car, not just performance, comparison between 911 and M5 makes little sense as they have very little in common apart from their performance.
I really hope you never get a job in motor journalism as the reviews would be all the same, predictable and probably very boring....
I dont doubt the recent 'jizzfest' over the M135i. Its harking back to a time of lightwight M cars (yes I know its only semi skimmed) but the new M3 is as far away from the E30 M3's of old I'm not surprised when BMW bring out the first RWD uber hatch that is gets some attention and coverage. Add the fact that it a £34k spec'd car can be had for £27.5K with current discounts make it even more of a hot debate.
Top marks on the article, to drum us this must interest its clearly a worthwhile one.
In response to the critics of the comparison these are the two cars I'm genuinely considering for replacing my e46 m3.
I've discounted the BRZ / GT86, impressed as I was by a test drive but the lack of overtaking pace and the tacky "ripspeed" interior were the deciding factors.
The only slight variation to the cars tested is I'm more tempted by a used Cayman S up to a budget of £30-32k hopefully a gen2 2009-10 with low mileage (message me if you're selling one!)
Currently trying to test drive a manual M135i but demo manuals are like hen's teeth. (anyone got experience of one?)
In response to the critics of the comparison these are the two cars I'm genuinely considering for replacing my e46 m3.
I've discounted the BRZ / GT86, impressed as I was by a test drive but the lack of overtaking pace and the tacky "ripspeed" interior were the deciding factors.
The only slight variation to the cars tested is I'm more tempted by a used Cayman S up to a budget of £30-32k hopefully a gen2 2009-10 with low mileage (message me if you're selling one!)
Currently trying to test drive a manual M135i but demo manuals are like hen's teeth. (anyone got experience of one?)
cmbayes said:
Top marks on the article, to drum us this must interest its clearly a worthwhile one.
In response to the critics of the comparison these are the two cars I'm genuinely considering for replacing my e46 m3.
I've discounted the BRZ / GT86, impressed as I was by a test drive but the lack of overtaking pace and the tacky "ripspeed" interior were the deciding factors.
The only slight variation to the cars tested is I'm more tempted by a used Cayman S up to a budget of £30-32k hopefully a gen2 2009-10 with low mileage (message me if you're selling one!)
Currently trying to test drive a manual M135i but demo manuals are like hen's teeth. (anyone got experience of one?)
Vines of Guildford have one, am driving it tomorrow - not to compare with a Caymen, but looking at one to run alongside the Boxster Spyder as my sensible car so might be able to give a similar comparison as PH's test. Have also driven the A45 - great performance, but a drab cabin IMHO, and no character. Great when 'on it' but just felt slack when pottering in it.In response to the critics of the comparison these are the two cars I'm genuinely considering for replacing my e46 m3.
I've discounted the BRZ / GT86, impressed as I was by a test drive but the lack of overtaking pace and the tacky "ripspeed" interior were the deciding factors.
The only slight variation to the cars tested is I'm more tempted by a used Cayman S up to a budget of £30-32k hopefully a gen2 2009-10 with low mileage (message me if you're selling one!)
Currently trying to test drive a manual M135i but demo manuals are like hen's teeth. (anyone got experience of one?)
cmbayes said:
Top marks on the article, to drum us this must interest its clearly a worthwhile one.
In response to the critics of the comparison these are the two cars I'm genuinely considering for replacing my e46 m3.
I've discounted the BRZ / GT86, impressed as I was by a test drive but the lack of overtaking pace and the tacky "ripspeed" interior were the deciding factors.
The only slight variation to the cars tested is I'm more tempted by a used Cayman S up to a budget of £30-32k hopefully a gen2 2009-10 with low mileage (message me if you're selling one!)
Currently trying to test drive a manual M135i but demo manuals are like hen's teeth. (anyone got experience of one?)
I have a manual. It's the same 6spd dry-sump affair as the 1M and is very nice to use.In response to the critics of the comparison these are the two cars I'm genuinely considering for replacing my e46 m3.
I've discounted the BRZ / GT86, impressed as I was by a test drive but the lack of overtaking pace and the tacky "ripspeed" interior were the deciding factors.
The only slight variation to the cars tested is I'm more tempted by a used Cayman S up to a budget of £30-32k hopefully a gen2 2009-10 with low mileage (message me if you're selling one!)
Currently trying to test drive a manual M135i but demo manuals are like hen's teeth. (anyone got experience of one?)
copperman05 said:
I didn't deny it wasn't a hatchback just stated it wasn't 'just' one, don't think you can argue with that. I'm not only talking about performance, its never just about 0-60 times but to state you cant compare one performance car against another just because one is a Sports car and the other a uber hot hatch is just rubbish. Re the M5 and 911 (I actually was comparing the M3 and 911), their similar performance is exactly why they would be considered dont you see? Yes they are different but still comparable and that the whole argument here.
I really hope you never get a job in motor journalism as the reviews would be all the same, predictable and probably very boring....
So you essentially agreed with me - you're comparing on performance. 'their similar performance' you said.I really hope you never get a job in motor journalism as the reviews would be all the same, predictable and probably very boring....
In that case, as I said in my post, go on right ahead.
As for boredom - comparing everything to 135i is "all the same, predictable and very boring" to me.
Edited by Bladedancer on Thursday 12th September 10:36
The point is surely that 4 seats are not an essential for everybody, and even those who would rule out a 2 seat car do so for some odd reasons sometimes.
These are prestigious cars that cost a lot of money (Even the stripped M135i is north of £30k) and in that market you will find most buyers have a second car in the household. If that is a practical 4/5 seater you dont have to have another one as well.Think how little time on average most cars are used with more than 2 occupants ( Or even more than 1 ! )
So if that's the case the Cayman , with its 2 luggage areas, is a decent alternative to the BMW and that makes the comparison entirely valid.
These are prestigious cars that cost a lot of money (Even the stripped M135i is north of £30k) and in that market you will find most buyers have a second car in the household. If that is a practical 4/5 seater you dont have to have another one as well.Think how little time on average most cars are used with more than 2 occupants ( Or even more than 1 ! )
So if that's the case the Cayman , with its 2 luggage areas, is a decent alternative to the BMW and that makes the comparison entirely valid.
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