Funny observations about vehicles weights
Discussion
Weight relates to power/torque and set up.
There are some bloody heavy vehicles out there that are like s
t of a shovel when the loud peddle is pressed. And weight is only half the story when it comes to handling.
Eg. The Nissan 350 was only heavy in regard to acceleration and handling. A 458 does not have the same issues.
There are some bloody heavy vehicles out there that are like s
t of a shovel when the loud peddle is pressed. And weight is only half the story when it comes to handling.Eg. The Nissan 350 was only heavy in regard to acceleration and handling. A 458 does not have the same issues.
although that's no surprise if you look at my car history Isn't it a case of a car being heavy for what it is, not heavy in absolute terms? The 350Z for example was thought of as heavy for a 2 seater small GT, compared to its peers the Z4C and Cayman, which are both around 200kg lighter. Likewise, 700kg is not heavy, but it is for a Caterham 7 style car.
I think you should be talking about "control weights" rather than vehicle mass tbh!
Now that everything is power assisted, you can make any car, of any mass perform tbh (take the 918 as an example, heavy, but massive power and grip)
Something like a viper is regarded as heavy because it's control weights are heavy, and because it's chassis set up is generally quite inert (because it has to deal with >500horses)
Now that everything is power assisted, you can make any car, of any mass perform tbh (take the 918 as an example, heavy, but massive power and grip)
Something like a viper is regarded as heavy because it's control weights are heavy, and because it's chassis set up is generally quite inert (because it has to deal with >500horses)
WeirdNeville said:
I don't find it "that" amazing, to be honest. When you look at a car that is truly light, like an elise, you begin to appreciate what has to go to get a car down to ~700Kg.
It has:
An engine
An aluminium monocoque.
It does not have:
ABS
Air conditioning
Electric... anything
carpets
any storage space
interior trim
A proper roof
Plus the fact it's incredibly small to start with.
You can get an Elise with all of those things (except the storage space) which is still well under a tonne. Admittedly the "electric anything" consists of windows and that's about it. It has:
An engine
An aluminium monocoque.
It does not have:
ABS
Air conditioning
Electric... anything
carpets
any storage space
interior trim
A proper roof
Plus the fact it's incredibly small to start with.
I didn't realise the E36 would be such a heffa! Although, to BMW's credit the "lightweight" version was a tad lighter...but still pretty heavy!
I think when judging on face value if a car is "heavy" or not depends on the engine and purpose of the vehicle. For instance, the Ferrari F430 pictured wouldn't be termed "heavy" because it's meant to be an agile performance machine, whilst the Viper RT/10 with it's 8.0L V10 certainly would be expected to weigh more.
I think when judging on face value if a car is "heavy" or not depends on the engine and purpose of the vehicle. For instance, the Ferrari F430 pictured wouldn't be termed "heavy" because it's meant to be an agile performance machine, whilst the Viper RT/10 with it's 8.0L V10 certainly would be expected to weigh more.
Sid's Dad said:
12v3pot said:
Even the all-aluminium and therefore lightweight NSX is ... er ... 1350-1420kg!
What weight do you think it should be, then? And what would you design differently so it weighs what you think it should?(FWIW, I'm not slagging off the NSX. Really.)
WeirdNeville said:
I don't find it "that" amazing, to be honest. When you look at a car that is truly light, like an elise, you begin to appreciate what has to go to get a car down to ~700Kg.
It has:
An engine
An aluminium monocoque.
It does not have:
ABS
Air conditioning
Electric... anything
carpets
any storage space
interior trim
A proper roof
Plus the fact it's incredibly small to start with.
Mostly true of an early S1, though even that is realistically > 700kg. My S2 is likely in the high 800's with a full tank, and that has ABS, electric windows, a stereo, carpet, interior trim (albeit thin and minimalist), a lined roof and 112 litre boot. It doesn't have hundreds of kilograms of slush moulded plastic covering bits of interior that I don't touch, but then who really needs that?It has:
An engine
An aluminium monocoque.
It does not have:
ABS
Air conditioning
Electric... anything
carpets
any storage space
interior trim
A proper roof
Plus the fact it's incredibly small to start with.
The main concessions to lightness are the narrowness of the cabin and the sparse soundproofing.
doogz said:
The thing about aluminium is that yeah, it's light.
It's also not very strong, and not very stiff.
A car doesn't particularly need to be stiff if it's light enough - any forces trying to twist the chassis will be directly proportional to the inertia of the vehicle. The Elise's tub has an extremely good stiffness to weight ratio. It's also not very strong, and not very stiff.
The bigger problem with using aluminium for structural components seems to be that (compared to steel) it's brittle and relatively hard to repair.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 12th September 14:36
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