RE: Hennessey McLaren 12C HPE700
Discussion
RenOHH said:
McLaren have positioned the 12C within their future range (P1 above it, and the car coming to sit under the 12C) and the other products they would like to compete with. As standard the engine produces 625bhp but that's not to say that that's the most it can deliver (we know it isn't because the P1 uses the same base engine).
90% of the P1 engine is different.
RenOHH said:
CraigyMc said:
90% of the P1 engine is different.
It is? Oh balls. Still, I don't think the 12C engine will be at its limit of performance. The Hennessey upgrade might just shorten the service intervals or something like that.I suspect Hennessey didn't want to open the engine up, fit lower compression pistons and lower the revlimit but up the boost to make bigger power -- that's a likely route to more power, but it'd cost rather a lot and they'd have to develop rather than just bolting-on.
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Whatever Hennessey's reputation, they have a superb track record in building mechanically dependable tuner cars at often far higher power levels than this (1200bhp LS3 twin-turbo conversions seem to be their bread and butter!).
However, I do kind of get the feeling that I'd trust the McLaren boys to judge the power output perfectly for the rest of the car. It's hardly slow. IF I had one and wanted more power, I'd be asking McLaren themselves to do it - especially as they're just 13 miles from my doorstep.
However, I do kind of get the feeling that I'd trust the McLaren boys to judge the power output perfectly for the rest of the car. It's hardly slow. IF I had one and wanted more power, I'd be asking McLaren themselves to do it - especially as they're just 13 miles from my doorstep.
RenOHH said:
Not necessarily. McLaren have positioned the 12C within their future range (P1 above it, and the car coming to sit under the 12C) and the other products they would like to compete with. As standard the engine produces 625bhp but that's not to say that that's the most it can deliver (we know it isn't because the P1 uses the same base engine).
It has 625bhp because that delivers the performance McLaren WANT to give the car. This is the same when remapping a car; some people question the point of remapping because they can't understand why the manufacturer didn't give it that power/torque to start with. Well this is the same reason, it's just the manufacturer positioning the car to sit with competitors or the other cars in their ranges. For example BMW had the 318 and 320 with the same engine, except for a different map (maybe other parts too, but it was very similar).
I guess it has more to do with reliability over several tens of thousands miles, offering a warranty that also covers the vehicle for that time at least and the reputation of the McLaren brand as a manufacturer of vehicles that don't self destruct in the first 1000 to 2000 miles.It has 625bhp because that delivers the performance McLaren WANT to give the car. This is the same when remapping a car; some people question the point of remapping because they can't understand why the manufacturer didn't give it that power/torque to start with. Well this is the same reason, it's just the manufacturer positioning the car to sit with competitors or the other cars in their ranges. For example BMW had the 318 and 320 with the same engine, except for a different map (maybe other parts too, but it was very similar).
Almost any vehicle can be remapped, reworked or have forced induction added or tweaked in some way to make more horsepower, but how long will it keep giving that horsepower before it breaks? If you wanted to go really really fast, you could just add a 3000 hp drag racing engine to a vehicle, then replace all the major components every time you went down to the shops.
McLaren have run the prototypes and their engines under extreme test conditions for months and miles, they know what is safe and reliable yet powerful and fast enough without over-stressing things. I imagine Hennessy will not have had a chance to carry out anywhere near that cycle of testing, but maybe their customers are more interested in output figures than durability or warranty cover?
Edited by cookie1600 on Monday 16th September 16:16
GALLARDOGUY said:
An Underground Racing Gallardo would be quicker than both. And UR's reputation is rather better than Hennessey's.
Is it? i would check that before i put any more their way! As with the 458 TT, where is the track testing or hours and hours thrashing the SH!T out of it on the dyno? where is the track testing until the tires blew out? How much faster is it around a track than the stock car? Quick simply they don't have anything!
Impasse said:
mackay45 said:
vxah said:
mackay45 said:
"terminal speeds matching at 137mph"?
For the standing quarter!eg. a Veyron clicked off a 10.175 seconds at 139 mph for the standing quarter.
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cookie1600 said:
I guess it has more to do with reliability over several tens of thousands miles, offering a warranty that also covers the vehicle for that time at least and the reputation of the McLaren brand as a manufacturer of vehicles that don't self destruct in the first 1000 to 2000 miles.
Almost any vehicle can be remapped, reworked or have forced induction added or tweaked in some way to make more horsepower, but how long will it keep giving that horsepower before it breaks? If you wanted to go really really fast, you could just add a 3000 hp drag racing engine to a vehicle, then replace all the major components every time you went down to the shops.
McLaren have run the prototypes and their engines under extreme test conditions for months and miles, they know what is safe and reliable yet powerful and fast enough without over-stressing things. I imagine Hennessy will not have had a chance to carry out anywhere near that cycle of testing, but maybe their customers are more interested in output figures than durability or warranty cover?
I can't see how fitting a larger turbo would create significant extra stress on the engine if boost is only up by 2psi... Almost any vehicle can be remapped, reworked or have forced induction added or tweaked in some way to make more horsepower, but how long will it keep giving that horsepower before it breaks? If you wanted to go really really fast, you could just add a 3000 hp drag racing engine to a vehicle, then replace all the major components every time you went down to the shops.
McLaren have run the prototypes and their engines under extreme test conditions for months and miles, they know what is safe and reliable yet powerful and fast enough without over-stressing things. I imagine Hennessy will not have had a chance to carry out anywhere near that cycle of testing, but maybe their customers are more interested in output figures than durability or warranty cover?
Edited by cookie1600 on Monday 16th September 16:16
okay the cooling system will have a higher load on it but I'm sure Hennessey checked it doesn't actually overheat.
The injectors would have a higher duty cycle but that's clutching at straws.
I doubt the rods are that marginal, and if the hot side of the turbo flows more the pistons have a slightly easier time and the high compression ratio is less of an issue.
How it actually drives and delivers the power is a different matter though.
Capri86 said:
Conversion covered by the manufactures warranty by any chance? 
Something’s niggling me that McLaren are a company that would know how to get the most out of their products before over stressing them and setting up the handling to be suite the performance.
Brits make a perfectly engineered car then the yanks chuck some bigger turbos on it and some extra kit to try and prevent their mod from destroying it…
Exactly this........tuning aside, that looks marvellous in the grey.Something’s niggling me that McLaren are a company that would know how to get the most out of their products before over stressing them and setting up the handling to be suite the performance.
Brits make a perfectly engineered car then the yanks chuck some bigger turbos on it and some extra kit to try and prevent their mod from destroying it…
This isn't a bad writeup: http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/201...
We are just very anti-modification in the UK. I don't see anything wrong with this. It's not some gawdy tart up. McLaren will factor in marketing and reliability just like any other manufacturer.
Rather than assume the only people who wjll want this are looking for bragging rights, perhaps the mod will change how the car feels too? Without a back-to-back road test, none of us could say.
Rather than assume the only people who wjll want this are looking for bragging rights, perhaps the mod will change how the car feels too? Without a back-to-back road test, none of us could say.
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