RE: Jag: we got it wrong
Discussion
Whilst walking up Old Marylebone Road on a sunny July day, a young man in a gold X-type stopped across my path as he pulled into Homer Row, rolled down his window and asked me if I'd like to buy some weed. I declined. Apparently not all X-types are used to cart second-hand golf clubs about.
When I have a chance I'll post up some comparative pics. Jaguar hadn't changed their design language meaningfully since they introduced the magnificent Mk10 half a century ago. Change was needed badly. That the X350 arrived at the same time as the groundbreaking E65 7er (for me one of Bangle's most successful designs), the 2nd generation Audi A8, the just-discontinued S-class and the beautiful Maserati Quattroporte only highlighted how out of step Jaguar was. X350 was a groundbreaking car... only nobody realised because it looked exactly like every other XJ ever made.
RoverP6B said:
Well, Vauxhall did rip off the design with the Insignia. I understand Norman Dewis approves of what Ian Callum is doing and has said Bill Lyons would have done the same. If it's good enough for him...
That would be Vauxhall using their time travel system then???? XJ being released significantly later than the Insignia went on sale never mind designed (likely 3 years before sale date at the very least)I would love my wife's Insignia to bear any sort of resemblance to an XJ..unfortunately, like every other Insignia it looks about as similar to an XJ as it does to a luxury yacht!
This is a very strange marketing angle, its a kick in the teeth for people who bought it, like saying 'you idiot, you bought one of our cars', reminds me of Ratners.
I'm also surprised to hear the sales were poor, they are everywhere and have been for the last 10 years. There was no predecessor to this so all the x-types you see were sales they wouldn't have got without this model.
I did drive a 3.0 V6 once, it felt really flimsy (although this might have been an abused one), wasn't as quick as I was expecting but I would buy one myself at their current values, you could do a lot worse.
I'm also surprised to hear the sales were poor, they are everywhere and have been for the last 10 years. There was no predecessor to this so all the x-types you see were sales they wouldn't have got without this model.
I did drive a 3.0 V6 once, it felt really flimsy (although this might have been an abused one), wasn't as quick as I was expecting but I would buy one myself at their current values, you could do a lot worse.
tadaah said:
That would be Vauxhall using their time travel system then???? XJ being released significantly later than the Insignia went on sale never mind designed (likely 3 years before sale date at the very least)
I would love my wife's Insignia to bear any sort of resemblance to an XJ..unfortunately, like every other Insignia it looks about as similar to an XJ as it does to a luxury yacht!
Huh? I was talking about XF, which launched about the same time as Insignia. The XJ is pretty unique...I would love my wife's Insignia to bear any sort of resemblance to an XJ..unfortunately, like every other Insignia it looks about as similar to an XJ as it does to a luxury yacht!
FWDRacer said:
VladD said:
I think there must be some irony in claiming the X-Type wasn't styled very well now that we have the hugely bland XF. Being in mind that I own an S-Type, when I first showed my wife an XF and asked her who she thought made it, she said she wasn't sure, but thought it must be Japanese. At least when you look at the X-Type you know it's a Jag without having to check the badge. Jaguar have swapped character and brand recogintion for mass sales. Fair enough, but I miss proper looking Jags.
You are in the minority that miss the Grand Father clock on wheels styling.And of that minority most are either p!ss stained, senile or dying. Sorry to appear rude - but that is the truth of it.
RoverP6B said:
VladD said:
The XF has no features that distinguish it as a Jag at all. As has been observed, ask Joe Public what it is if they are not familiar with it, and they haven't got a clue.
Rubbish! The fluted bonnet over the headlights, the E-type central bulge, the '68 XJ elliptical grille... the front wing vents from the XK... the shape of the side glazing is also notably similar to the 1968 XJ...VladD said:
And those cues make it more recognisable as a Jag than an X-Type? Absolute tosh. They're things than a car nut might pick up on, but I still maintain Joe Public would struggle.
What made X-type a Jag? Four sort of round headlights and completely wrong proportions? Frankly the contemporary Merc C-class could have been rebadged and made a more convincing Jag.RoverP6B said:
VladD said:
And those cues make it more recognisable as a Jag than an X-Type? Absolute tosh. They're things than a car nut might pick up on, but I still maintain Joe Public would struggle.
What made X-type a Jag? Four sort of round headlights and completely wrong proportions? Frankly the contemporary Merc C-class could have been rebadged and made a more convincing Jag.
But if you want to know, spend some time reading this:
http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/cars/jaguar/x-type...
yonex said:
VladD said:
I'm fully aware that I'm in the minority. However your assumptions on the medical status of us are just plain wrong, a sadly staid stereotype and a bit childish. I think you'll find the people you describe drive Hondas
Stereotypes eh 
Jaguar (or rather Ford, who held the strings of management at the time) may have got the X-type wrong, but that's history now. What matters is how well Jaguar can design and programme-manage a new C/D market sector saloon/estate/coupe through to delivery while also hitting severe targets for showroom appeal, the appropriate application & use of new technology, class-leading fit and finish, economy, performance and safety.
The obvious target has to be the BMW 3 series range. And, from the number of road tests we've all read that conclude with the 3 series rated ahead of the C class, Audi A4, VW Passat, etc, etc, it is clear that Jaguar must be aiming at a very high bar. Let's hope they can clear it in style. There will be a big showroom queue if they can pull it off because if they beat the F31 that'll be quite some achievement. When X-type was being done I don't think they had the self-confidence [or R&D budget, probably], to bring it off.
This time around, the company is doing better and they appear (from the outside at least) to have evolved a credible strategy to achieve a wider market share. They have to succeed with the new small saloon. Failure this time around will not be an option..
The obvious target has to be the BMW 3 series range. And, from the number of road tests we've all read that conclude with the 3 series rated ahead of the C class, Audi A4, VW Passat, etc, etc, it is clear that Jaguar must be aiming at a very high bar. Let's hope they can clear it in style. There will be a big showroom queue if they can pull it off because if they beat the F31 that'll be quite some achievement. When X-type was being done I don't think they had the self-confidence [or R&D budget, probably], to bring it off.
This time around, the company is doing better and they appear (from the outside at least) to have evolved a credible strategy to achieve a wider market share. They have to succeed with the new small saloon. Failure this time around will not be an option..
300bhp/ton said:
But if you want to know, spend some time reading this:
http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/cars/jaguar/x-type...
What's important is that Jaguar finally managed to ditch the aged and un-successful "retro styling" approach to their design and launched a fresh faced "XF"
It proves Jaguar has the ability to take some of the BMW / Audi / Mercedes sector with very good results.
Now all they have to do is miniaturise it a little into a nice 3 series / A4 / C Class size car.
How hard can it be................................
It proves Jaguar has the ability to take some of the BMW / Audi / Mercedes sector with very good results.
Now all they have to do is miniaturise it a little into a nice 3 series / A4 / C Class size car.
How hard can it be................................
Having had my 3.0se manual for 3yrs now here are a few corrections to some assumptions on here and a few bits of trivia...
It's a 60:40 rear bias split on the AWD and behaves in a reasonably RWD fashion.
It does low 20s mpg in town and can happily rumble along giving mid 30s on a run.
Wind it up and it will go rapidly, it just doesn't make a lot of fuss (well mine does a bit as it has louder pipes).
The switchgear is not from the Ford parts bin. A bit here or there might look familiar but the main dash is very different.
Servicing costs buttons - mock away with the Mondeo comments but it's costing far far less than my 540!!
The boot is large.
The legroom is better than an A4 or 3-series imo.
The centres of the dials are designed to mimic the propeller end housings (sorry plane nuts, I don't know the real term!) on a Spitfire.
The dash shape replicates a cutaway of a Spitfire wing.
11 years old and it doesn't have a single rattle. There's no rust. Everything works as it should.
The driver door sounds tinny when I shut it! That's the only thing I'm not happy about
My friends have all cried FOUL! on mentioning I'm looking to change to an estate car. They all love it
I'd not hesitate in recommending one as a bargain buy...
Looking forward to seeing the new one though!
It's a 60:40 rear bias split on the AWD and behaves in a reasonably RWD fashion.
It does low 20s mpg in town and can happily rumble along giving mid 30s on a run.
Wind it up and it will go rapidly, it just doesn't make a lot of fuss (well mine does a bit as it has louder pipes).
The switchgear is not from the Ford parts bin. A bit here or there might look familiar but the main dash is very different.
Servicing costs buttons - mock away with the Mondeo comments but it's costing far far less than my 540!!
The boot is large.
The legroom is better than an A4 or 3-series imo.
The centres of the dials are designed to mimic the propeller end housings (sorry plane nuts, I don't know the real term!) on a Spitfire.
The dash shape replicates a cutaway of a Spitfire wing.
11 years old and it doesn't have a single rattle. There's no rust. Everything works as it should.
The driver door sounds tinny when I shut it! That's the only thing I'm not happy about
My friends have all cried FOUL! on mentioning I'm looking to change to an estate car. They all love it
I'd not hesitate in recommending one as a bargain buy...
Looking forward to seeing the new one though!
Edited by Six Fiend on Wednesday 18th September 13:49
I see quite a lot of them driving around, the FIL has one a 2.0 V6 petrol 2003, which when his valeter's been gleams like new. Do we have any actual sales figures for them, I know they were slow off the mark in getting a diesel and estate on the market, but I'm sure it was a profitable car, certainly kept the Merseyside Hailwood plant busy for 8 or 9 years before the RR Evoque. A lot of the over 50's who could never afford a full size Jag loved 'em.
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