RE: Porsche 911 Turbo S: UK drive

[Carl_Docklands]

The main problem for me is the rear end, it just does not look like a 911.

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/10694228@N08/9628806567/]

[peternoble3r]

I like it but to pay 140k new for it no way I'd buy a second hand 458 of mp12 for my money instead , but hopefully it'll be a good second hand buy some day when I've eventually tire of my GT-R .

[tali1]

Wills2 said:

av185 said:

Wills2 said:

Why are people mentioning the 458? a base 458 is 180k, specced up they are 200k+ totally different price bracket.

Because a lightly used 458 at 150k and below is looking more attainable from Ferrari dealerships as the seaonal downturn approaches and Ferraris stock piling of used 458s catches up with them......

We are talking about new cars you can't start comparing the price of new and secondhand cars or you might as well say that you can get a 997 Turbo S for 75k which again is half the price of a second hand 458 but just as quick (but I wouldn't say that as it's a daft argument just like the "why get a Turbo S when the GTR is as fast debate)

Thing is 458 was from the linaege that competed on price with 911T - but the last to do that was 355.
Oddly , now the cheapest Ferrari is a California -unheard of of a open top Ferrari to be cheapest in line up
Swings and roundabouts...

Nedzilla said:

For me,comparing the GTR to the 911 turbo is like comparing a pair of asda jeans to a pair of Armani jeans. They both do the same job though one will be slightly better quality,have a better name and the one you would rather be seen with though ulimately not worth the difference in price when compared side by side.

I own a GTR but if someone offered me a 911 turbo of the same age for the same money would i take it?



Of course i would.

Hol' on hol on' GT-R may be Asda in price - but that is all.Engine is hand built and there seems to be attention to detail all around to the nth degree.

[LuS1fer]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

OK, easily the ugliest lights. The 997 remains light years more desirable than a 996.
It's true that popularity doesn't always mean merit but in this case, it's not exactly a 40p newspaper or a £10 CD. The fact is people will always buy the "911" tag just like they seem to have bought the ugly Countryman "It's a MINI" idea but, ultimately, there is a broad church that knows what looks good and what doesn't. Only the Nissan Juke proves otherwise...

[av185]

Wills2 said:

av185 said:

Wills2 said:

av185 said:

Wills2 said:

Why are people mentioning the 458? a base 458 is 180k, specced up they are 200k+ totally different price bracket.

Because a lightly used 458 at 150k and below is looking more attainable from Ferrari dealerships as the seaonal downturn approaches and Ferraris stock piling of used 458s catches up with them......

We are talking about new cars you can't start comparing the price of new and secondhand cars or you might as well say that you can get a 997 Turbo S for 75k which again is half the price of a second hand 458 but just as quick (but I wouldn't say that as it's a daft argument just like the "why get a Turbo S when the GTR is as fast debate)

We are not just talking about new cars at all. We are talking about the possible cars people would buy for the cost of the new turbo s. A lightly used 458 would not just be on mine but a lot of other potential purchasers shortlist.

Equally, we have also already mentioned earlier in this thread the preference of some people who would buy a used Macca over a new Turbine s........

It's just not a valid argument to compare the price of a new car to a secondhand one and then say the new car isn't worth it, apples and oranges.

???

Does the title of this subject thread exclude used or lightly used cars? No........

As I have said before and as others have alluded to, it is about peoples options and how they would otherwise choose to spend their £150k on either a new or used car, so Ferraris Astons and Maccas are entirely relevant given the huge rise in price of the Turbo S. If you care to read the numerous previous posts on page 2 of this thread......

Just briefly referring to the most competent GTR again, for me the car fails the 3 "p" test:

Price : Pass
Performance : Pass
Packaging: Fail

The Turbo S passes the test even despite its hefty prictag. But like all Turbos before, it will inevitably suffer heavy depreciation (which is a big issue to me) and something which my new GT3 should not.

Finally, I find most women are not attracted to any of these cars in the slightest. Only when they see you in a Morris Minor, Triumph Herald or Mini Countryman (wood bits) do they become truly excited.....

[big_rob_sydney]

People may well argue that the porsche is double the price of a GTR, and therefore double the car?

Frankly, its not double the car. I dont think its even a match one-on-one.

I couldnt give a rats arse about the pompous nature of what other people think. And people who are concerned about image? Please. Get a life. Better yet, get a girlfriend.

[Carl_Docklands]

av185 said:

Finally, I find most women are not attracted to any of these cars in the slightest. Only when they see you in a Morris Minor, Triumph Herald or Mini Countryman (wood bits) do they become truly excited.....

[LuS1fer]

av185 said:

Finally, I find most women are not attracted to any of these cars in the slightest. Only when they see you in a Morris Minor, Triumph Herald or Mini Countryman (wood bits) do they become truly excited.....

True to some degree. Most will accuse blokes of being deficient in the trouser department and having a mid-lifer but if offered a go in the passenger seat will generally change their tune significantly.

I once had a Corvette C4 and my girlfriend was embarrassed by it.
On the other hand, my wife loved my Z28 and Corvette and doesn't mind the Mustang but still preferred the Z28 (only one she ever drove...).

[Mr Whippy]

Deep said:

Mr Whippy said:

At least the 996 tried to move things on.

Instead we are just back to the 993 type shape but big and fat like it's had a bad botox job.


Yes it's all in the eye of the beholder, but the 991 is the first Porsche 911 since forever that I think looks horrible. I liked it at first when I imagined it looking 996 sized... until I saw it in person and it just doesn't make sense.


The Boxster on the other hand looks terrific. I can only assume the demographic that is now buying the 911 likes big brash trinket laden cars. Oh it's a turbo and costs more, better stick on more letters and vents and slashes and stuff to make it 'look' more expensive...

Dave

Are you in the market for a new 991 Turbo S or car in that segment?

If not then why do you waste your time endlessly analysing it and it's shortcomings??

I'm sorry if this sounds horrid but this forum seems to be full of people who are self opinionated about cars they are never going to buy and frankly will probably never be able to afford.

It's ridiculous

Passion for cars can go beyond wanting to buy them or being financially capable of owning them at the time they are released.

It's ridiculous that you think the only qualifying pre-requisite for commenting on a cars looks is the disposable wealth to buy one.


I'm commenting from a design perspective. Let me know if there are any missing pre-requisite elements in my design experience that don't allow me to comment without being ridiculed.

[the_hood]

Surley, if you don't need rear seats, the main rival for the Turbo is the R8 Plus?
Both German, 4wd, about the same power and around £10k difference in price.

[Froomee]

Mr Whippy said:

Deep said:

Mr Whippy said:

At least the 996 tried to move things on.

Instead we are just back to the 993 type shape but big and fat like it's had a bad botox job.


Yes it's all in the eye of the beholder, but the 991 is the first Porsche 911 since forever that I think looks horrible. I liked it at first when I imagined it looking 996 sized... until I saw it in person and it just doesn't make sense.


The Boxster on the other hand looks terrific. I can only assume the demographic that is now buying the 911 likes big brash trinket laden cars. Oh it's a turbo and costs more, better stick on more letters and vents and slashes and stuff to make it 'look' more expensive...

Dave

Are you in the market for a new 991 Turbo S or car in that segment?

If not then why do you waste your time endlessly analysing it and it's shortcomings??

I'm sorry if this sounds horrid but this forum seems to be full of people who are self opinionated about cars they are never going to buy and frankly will probably never be able to afford.

It's ridiculous

Passion for cars can go beyond wanting to buy them or being financially capable of owning them at the time they are released.

It's ridiculous that you think the only qualifying pre-requisite for commenting on a cars looks is the disposable wealth to buy one.


I'm commenting from a design perspective. Let me know if there are any missing pre-requisite elements in my design experience that don't allow me to comment without being ridiculed.

+1. Not having the money to buy something doesn't mean you can't have an opinion about it.... After all this is a car enthusiasts forum.

I think all 911 Turbos look purposeful (I regularly see a 930 and 993 localish to me). The way these things depreciate is a worry for new buyers I guess although given a 996 Turbo is currently circa £20-£25k the comments above seem odd as second hand 911 (996 and possibly 997) is reasonably attainable.

Also purely from a car vs car perspective the 911 Turbo is far more desirable and iconic than the GTR in my opinion
(I'd also prefer the R34 to the R35) although the R35 is a great car

[Deep]

Mr Whippy said:

Passion for cars can go beyond wanting to buy them or being financially capable of owning them at the time they are released.

It's ridiculous that you think the only qualifying pre-requisite for commenting on a cars looks is the disposable wealth to buy one.


I'm commenting from a design perspective. Let me know if there are any missing pre-requisite elements in my design experience that don't allow me to comment without being ridiculed.

I just can't understand why you would waste your time commenting on and analysing something that you have no interest in buying and I'm assuming are not in a position to buy.

Who is interested in this analysis? Not Porsche that's for sure as you are not the demographic that is in the market for a £150k car.

.

Edited by Deep on Thursday 10th October 17:50

[MC Bodge]

framerateuk said:

I'd struggle to justify owning one of these for anything other than bragging rights. I just don't think you could exploit the performance very often, and how many people will actually track one?

It must be a very impressive car and I'd like to have a drive in one, but I couldn't help thinking the same.

I have nowhere near the means to buy one, though...

ps. Given the means to buy even a bargain basement car like a GTR, I'd probably have an old Porsche ...and more than one motorbike.

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 10th October 18:37

[LuS1fer]

MC Bodge said:

framerateuk said:

I'd struggle to justify owning one of these for anything other than bragging rights. I just don't think you could exploit the performance very often, and how many people will actually track one?

It must be a very impressive car and I'd like to have a drive in one, but I couldn't help thinking the same.

It's not really to do with tracking it, it's the pleasure of ownership.
Most Rolex owners only use their watches to glance at the time - then again, expensive watches have always totally puzzled me.

[MC Bodge]

LuS1fer said:

it's the pleasure of ownership.
Most Rolex owners only use their watches to glance at the time - then again, expensive watches have always totally puzzled me.

I prefer using and tinkering with things.

I wear a Casio watch.

[LongLiveTazio]

Rolex owners using their watch to tell the time? Zut alors! I use mine to make cassoulet and perform complex algebra.

[tali1]

LuS1fer said:

av185 said:

Finally, I find most women are not attracted to any of these cars in the slightest. Only when they see you in a Morris Minor, Triumph Herald or Mini Countryman (wood bits) do they become truly excited.....

True to some degree. Most will accuse blokes of being deficient in the trouser department and having a mid-lifer but if offered a go in the passenger seat will generally change their tune significantly.

I once had a Corvette C4 and my girlfriend was embarrassed by it.
On the other hand, my wife loved my Z28 and Corvette and doesn't mind the Mustang but still preferred the Z28 (only one she ever drove...).

Women will only be attracted in cars they buy themselves- Minis, Citroen DS3, Mazda mx5,Merc CLC ,SLK
Of the exotic stuff it will probably be an Audi R8 judging by large number of female celeb owners
As for woman pulling Porsche-then save thousands and get a Boxster.

[LuS1fer]

MC Bodge said:

I prefer using and tinkering with things.

I wear a Casio watch.

I wear a Seiko but it's scratched and scuffed to buggery as I also tinker and need to know the time.

[tali1]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Glad to be of help.
Please do tell us how you got on(pardon the pun)

[DE1 75]

Schnellmann said:

Comparing the 911 Turbo with the GT-R is fairly pointless.

Away from internet forums and the pages of car magazines and back in the real world, where these cars are actually bought new, the situation is clear. The market for 911 Turbos might be different in the UK (I don't know so can't comment) but in Switzerland the type of person that buys a new 911 Turbo would not drive a GT-R, even if you gave them away free. Which is why you sees lots of 911 Turbos and hardly any GT-Rs. However great the GT-R may or may not be, to the people that matter (i.e. those with the money to make a purchase) a Porsche, whether NA or Turbo, is a much more attractive proposition.

Badge snobs. As a Porsche owner and a GT-R owner I can honestly say that the Nissan gets a far better reaction and a lot more respect from other drivers than the Porsche.