RE: Porsche 911 Turbo S: UK drive
Discussion
cayman-black said:
Agree with the last three posts. 458 ferrari money, i am sure it will be faster but the other cars mentioned are all more special imo.
I don't think the 911 Turbo has ever tried to be 'special' - certainly not from the 996 onwards.It's designed as an everyday car. Albeit a very fast and expensive one.
Yes you could use a 458 everyday but most owners don't because if you do more than 300 miles a year in one you will be brutally bum raped by the nice man from Maranello sales come resale time.
The Turbo is a bit like a Martini. Any time, any place anywhere. It's also not too shouty. Unless you are a car geek most people won't know the difference between a 150K Turbo S and a 40K Boxster.
Yes a GTR does a similar job for a lot less money. My 8 Casio gym watch does pretty much the same as my Omega Speedmaster (in fact probably better) but it's just not quire the same.
Lovely looking thing! Would look great in the snow with some ski's on a roof rack as mentioned in the first page.
To me the GTR comparisons are only performance based. Porsche design (to me) is stunning. The interior fit and quality on 997+ including the new Cayenne, Panamera, Boxster and Cayman make them a very nice place for the driver to be. The Porsche brand I am completely sold into much like Apple.
On the other end of the spectrum, if the 911 Turbo is compared to a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Zonda etc, then it may be like the GTR argument. Similar performance but not the same detail and sense of occasion as a Ferrari. For me I don't want that much attention but want to feel special. Porsche is the only brand for me at the minute :-).
To me the GTR comparisons are only performance based. Porsche design (to me) is stunning. The interior fit and quality on 997+ including the new Cayenne, Panamera, Boxster and Cayman make them a very nice place for the driver to be. The Porsche brand I am completely sold into much like Apple.
On the other end of the spectrum, if the 911 Turbo is compared to a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Zonda etc, then it may be like the GTR argument. Similar performance but not the same detail and sense of occasion as a Ferrari. For me I don't want that much attention but want to feel special. Porsche is the only brand for me at the minute :-).
toppstuff said:
The 911 Turbo S is now a properly expensive car.
By recent standards, it's expensive. But list price for a 330 bhp two wheel drive, manual 911 turbo SE was 73,985.06 in January 1986. If you index that by RPI inflation it comes out at roughly 173,000 in today's money. (RPI being about 234% of what it was in early 1986).The Turbo SE then was also roughly three times the price of a basic 911 coupe.
(Edited to say something in the system is stripping out all my pound signs! Those prices are both in pounds sterling)
Edited by Lowtimer on Monday 7th October 17:14
I like the comparison to Apple ... their products are also some of the most profitable consumer goods in the world !
The comparison with cheap watches is irrelevant. I'm quite sure a GT-R costs just as much and takes as long to build as a 911 whereas a plastic quartz-powered watch bears no comparison to a hand-built Omega Speedmaster / Rolex DeepSea etc.
The comparison with cheap watches is irrelevant. I'm quite sure a GT-R costs just as much and takes as long to build as a 911 whereas a plastic quartz-powered watch bears no comparison to a hand-built Omega Speedmaster / Rolex DeepSea etc.
magic torch said:
Why the frequent negative comments about UK roads? I lived in Germany for five years and their roads were f
king st. Belgium was even worse...
Belgian roads are awful, yes, but that just means that the UK's roads aren't the worst in western Europe. UK roads are pretty average, I'd say, but people are always negative because of the traffic.king st. Belgium was even worse...The UK motorway network is amazing (despite being overcrowded), A-roads are pretty good, but the problem is that B-roads tend to be left to deteriorate - they frequently have lots of potholes plus some fairly dodgy surfaces in a lot of cases, have verges that grow to the point where they obscure visibility etc. Combined with the fact they're really not designed for high speeds, you end up with sports cars that are only suitable for driving in first gear in a lot of places and are set up for performance so are too stiffly sprung for driving on back-roads.
b14 said:
Roof rack - I can't help but think that having a roof rack on one of these and some winter tyres, then strapping yours and your wife's skis on it, the blasting all the way up to Chamonix for a week's skiing would make you an absolute hero.
It does...The downside is that it makes you instantly hated on Eurostar... Even if you're in the Fasttrack lane.
b14 said:
Roof rack - I can't help but think that having a roof rack on one of these and some winter tyres, then strapping yours and your wife's skis on it, the blasting all the way up to Chamonix for a week's skiing would make you an absolute hero.
Btw I'd limit the scope of your wife related cargo to just her skis. Better to send her via Geneva on BA...Definitely can understand the comparisons between the GTR and 911 Turbo, the GTR is 80k now isnt it ? its very clever, just as fast if not a little bit faster but to those buying a 911 it isnt really a choice, it reminds me of the time my mum found some really Jazzy, quite smart looking "Hi Tec" trainers that would do the exact same job as the Adidas LA ones I wanted at just a smidge over half the rpice, but I didnt care if they could fly, I wanted Adidas LA and thats all that would do, I say this as a Nissan owner as well, bit nowadays not so bothered about labels as I perhaps once was.
GranCab said:
Rawwr said:
GranCab said:
An R35 GT-R will do just the same job (apart from exaggerate the size of the driver's manhood) at half the price.
That didn't take long.You can call the GTR the elephant in most sports care rooms - it's as fast as 458s, mp4-12c's, F12s, lambos, the lot - but that says a lot more about the price of the GTR than the price of the others. Nissan is clearly selling them at a loss, or perhaps just breaking even, in a way only a huge car company can. It's a bargain, but you have to ask why it's so cheap; Nissan know that it's not exactly got a fantastic name to sell on the back of - if the GTR were 140k, would anyone buy it?
If big business starts to undercut the little man, and the little man tries to compete for "value", the little man loses. I can't afford any of these cars, but I'm glad Porsche, Ferrari, and everyone else have stuck to their pricing guns. By doing so there's a chance for companies like Noble to exist, and that has to be a good thing.
If Toyota, Nissan, VW and Ford get into a sports car pricing war it could spell the end for smaller manufacturers.
On the topic of the Turbo S, I hope it has the excitement you're suggesting Chris. The 991 has completely underwhelmed me so far - it's so bland at normal road speeds that I question its existence. A 24 hour test drive usually means any excuse to go for a blast, but I drove it home, and drove it back. Boring. God hoping the Turbo and GT3 as good as you've said.
XJR500bhp said:
Rawwr said:
That didn't take long.
Aren't they very similar though, and should be compared? I think sodelays said:
140k seems obscene until you play with the Bank of England's inflation calculator and realise that every Turbo throughout the years has cost today's equivalent (roughly) of 120-140k. Lest we forget, a decent Golf is north of 20k these days.
Not that this makes the upwards creep of prices excusable, of course.
Still think the car looks incredible. Porsche really have the 991 generation nailed, I can see where all those Cayenne profits are being spent!
Do you really think Porsche is doing everyone a favour by keeping the price 'low' in real terms. Economies of scale and modern production means this car is half the money to build than its 1980 ancestor.Not that this makes the upwards creep of prices excusable, of course.
Still think the car looks incredible. Porsche really have the 991 generation nailed, I can see where all those Cayenne profits are being spent!
PunterCam said:
GranCab said:
Rawwr said:
GranCab said:
An R35 GT-R will do just the same job (apart from exaggerate the size of the driver's manhood) at half the price.
That didn't take long.You can call the GTR the elephant in most sports care rooms - it's as fast as 458s, mp4-12c's, F12s, lambos, the lot - but that says a lot more about the price of the GTR than the price of the others. Nissan is clearly selling them at a loss, or perhaps just breaking even, in a way only a huge car company can. It's a bargain, but you have to ask why it's so cheap; Nissan know that it's not exactly got a fantastic name to sell on the back of - if the GTR were 140k, would anyone buy it?
If big business starts to undercut the little man, and the little man tries to compete for "value", the little man loses. I can't afford any of these cars, but I'm glad Porsche, Ferrari, and everyone else have stuck to their pricing guns. By doing so there's a chance for companies like Noble to exist, and that has to be a good thing.
If Toyota, Nissan, VW and Ford get into a sports car pricing war it could spell the end for smaller manufacturers.
On the topic of the Turbo S, I hope it has the excitement you're suggesting Chris. The 991 has completely underwhelmed me so far - it's so bland at normal road speeds that I question its existence. A 24 hour test drive usually means any excuse to go for a blast, but I drove it home, and drove it back. Boring. God hoping the Turbo and GT3 as good as you've said.
delays said:
140k seems obscene until you play with the Bank of England's inflation calculator and realise that every Turbo throughout the years has cost today's equivalent (roughly) of 120-140k. Lest we forget, a decent Golf is north of 20k these days.
Not that this makes the upwards creep of prices excusable, of course.
Still think the car looks incredible. Porsche really have the 991 generation nailed, I can see where all those Cayenne profits are being spent!
Do you really think Porsche is doing everyone a favour by keeping the price 'low' in real terms. Economies of scale and modern production means this car is half the money to build than its 1980 ancestor.Not that this makes the upwards creep of prices excusable, of course.
Still think the car looks incredible. Porsche really have the 991 generation nailed, I can see where all those Cayenne profits are being spent!
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