RE: Porsche 911 Turbo S: UK drive

[Davey S2]

GranCab said:

Frimley111R said:

Blimey, how 'average' does it look in that main pic (blue car)?? For the money I'd want a lot more wow factor!

+1

I suspect most owners will also have something with wow factor in the garage for weekends and a Range Rover Sport for the wife to do the school run.

[Bluerinser]

drocter81 said:

It looks the most awkward of any 991

until you see one with your own eyes and its right!

every picture you see makes it look awkward since seeing one i changed my view.

[SL Boy]

ImpossiblyDaft said:

magic torch said:

Why the frequent negative comments about UK roads? I lived in Germany for five years and their roads were fking st. Belgium was even worse...

Belgian roads are awful, yes, but that just means that the UK's roads aren't the worst in western Europe. UK roads are pretty average, I'd say, but people are always negative because of the traffic.

The UK motorway network is amazing (despite being overcrowded), A-roads are pretty good, but the problem is that B-roads tend to be left to deteriorate - they frequently have lots of potholes plus some fairly dodgy surfaces in a lot of cases, have verges that grow to the point where they obscure visibility etc. Combined with the fact they're really not designed for high speeds, you end up with sports cars that are only suitable for driving in first gear in a lot of places and are set up for performance so are too stiffly sprung for driving on back-roads.

You are right about the condition of our B-roads but I think the suggestion that UK roads are pretty average is somewhat generous. I drive a 997 GT3 and we have wonderful driving holidays in France, Germany, Spain and many other countries (not Belgium) in mainland Europe. Spewing out of the Eurotunnel on our way home, the combination of M20, M25 leading on to A and B roads quickly brings us down to earth with what a total crap driving experience we have in the South East. This isn't down to increased traffic volumes, its mainly uneven surfaces and low grade noisy tarmac and if we were forced to drive our pride and joy only in this country quite frankly we wouldn't bother as it can't come close to delivering anything like the same pleasure as driving abroad.

[Durzel]

The comparisons to trainers and watches between the 911 and GT-R are peculiar and say more about the person saying them than the cars imo.

An Omega Seamaster vs a Casio? Seriously? I can definitely see the relative value in both purchases, but they aren't competing with eachother. You're basically paying for the quality and intricacy of the movement, comparisons with a digital watch are pretty dumb. Likewise with trainers the differences between a decent pair and "Hi-Tecs" as quoted above can be numerous, including the quality of the materials, technologies like air bags, etc and how long they are actually expected to last before falling apart.

When comparing the GT-R and 911 Turbo S I'm really struggling to come up with a reasonable excuse for why it is double the price. If it's just the aspirational premium then why wouldn't you get a 458 instead? There isn't anything that strikes me as particularly special about this car in the company it finds itself in price-wise.

[sideways sid]

What happened to rear-wheel steering?

Honda had it on the Prelude and it worked brilliantly. I think Mitsubishi put it on the GTO/3000, and then it disappeared for 20 years. Now its back with similar praise.

[P4ROT]

A 911 turbo hasn't excited me visually since the 996tt tbh- they just don't seem to look as 'cartoonish' anymore.

[E38Ross]

Mclaren 12C for me, i'm sure the price difference wouldn't effect potential owners that much to be honest.

[Carl_Docklands]

991 Turbo = White Elvis

Too bloated and expensive for most of his original fans but still better than anything else.

[Walter Sobchak]

Of course it's going to be a great car, that's hardly surprising, but at that sort of price arn't you nearing Ferrari 458 and Mclaren mp4-12c territory?.

[pSyCoSiS]

Another epic 911 Turbo.

Has there ever really been a bad one?

I love it's looks and capabilities, and would have one in a heartbeat if I could afford it....

[Carl_Docklands]

Walter Sobchak said:

Of course it's going to be a great car, that's hardly surprising, but at that sort of price arn't you nearing Ferrari 458 and Mclaren mp4-12c territory?.

I think the review touched on a good point regarding pricing. Up until now your average 458 customer is not your Turbo customer, they have different requirements out of the car.

For a used one sure the price is comparible, but I have just returned from the DIY centre in my turbo and the amount of stuff i dare fit into it and onto it would make a ferrari cry.

Also, the Turbo makes for very safe transport in all weather conditions (ground clearance pending) for that reason I don't have any hesitation in using it to transport children in.

We are going to see plenty of 3 way tests soon which will be fun to read but a well specced macca would be my choice if I could run two cars.

[DT398]

Surely the GTR is only "the elephant in the room" if it's a problem that nobody is dealing with. I wonder how many sales of Ferrari or Porsche have been lost to GTRs? B*gger all I would guess. As someone said above there are way more 911 turbos on the road than GTRs so it can't be about price since the more expensive car is more common.

Most 911 turbo drivers would not want a GTR regardless of how fast or how cheap it was. They cater for different markets and the only thing they have in common is performance. The GTR also looks like a dog's breakfast but that's just my personal opinion.

I like the look of the 991 turbo and it's sure to be an epic car.

[toppstuff]

DT398 said:

Surely the GTR is only "the elephant in the room" if it's a problem that nobody is dealing with. I wonder how many sales of Ferrari or Porsche have been lost to GTRs? B*gger all I would guess. As someone said above there are way more 911 turbos on the road than GTRs so it can't be about price since the more expensive car is more common.

Most 911 turbo drivers would not want a GTR regardless of how fast or how cheap it was. They cater for different markets and the only thing they have in common is performance. The GTR also looks like a dog's breakfast but that's just my personal opinion.

I like the look of the 991 turbo and it's sure to be an epic car.

The GTR is the "elephant in the room" simply because everything the Porsche does has already been achieved by Nissan in 2008 when they launched the GTR. From a pure engineering perspective, the 4WD, double clutch gearbox, torque vectoring and clever drivetrain that characterises the 911T has already been done by Nissan. That's why the GTR is so important.

Here in the UK, the GTR is an acquired taste it seems and remains rare. Globally and in markets like the US the GTR is a lot more popular.

I can totally understand how people don't see how the GTR and the Porsche compare , but that is to ignore the engineering involved. In this respect, the Nissan is indeed the big fat elephant because it did it first and all that Porsche are doing is following..

Give it a few years and the GTR R36 will arrive and the game will move on again.

Edited by toppstuff on Monday 7th October 22:04

[LuS1fer]

Except the GTR V-Spec is 112,500 in Japan. What does that tell you?

Many of these arguments were applicable back in the day to the Skylines so you have to face the fact that people desire Porsches. They are iconic.
A GTR hasn't got the styling to be iconic and will depreciate and fade, just like old Skylines.

I think the only Japanese car that has achieved the holy grail of becoming an icon is the NSX.

[toppstuff]

LuS1fer said:

Except the GTR V-Spec is 112,500 in Japan. What does that tell you?

Many of these arguments were applicable back in the day to the Skylines so you have to face the fact that people desire Porsches. They are iconic.
A GTR hasn't got the styling to be iconic and will depreciate and fade, just like old Skylines.

I think the only Japanese car that has achieved the holy grail of becoming an icon is the NSX.

Just because you don't regard the Skyline as iconic does not mean that it isn't. In truth, the GTR especially in R34 and R35 form, is as iconic to a generation as the 911 is. Millions of Gran Turismo players on the play station will testify to that.

I don't really relate to the play station generation personally, but there are millions of people around the world who definitely see the GTR as an icon. Especially in Bayside Blue in Time Attack mode.

[DT398]

toppstuff said:

The GTR is the "elephant in the room" simply because everything the Porsche does has already been achieved by Nissan in 2008 when they launched the GTR......

Not really. They didn't exactly achieve the looks or desirability of the 911 did they? Thankfully, it's not just about engineering, it's about ownership experience and how the car makes you feel. It's true that the 911 turbo and GTR have comparable performance but that's about it. I don't suppose Porsche lose a lot of sleep over the fact that Nissan "got there first" with some engineering wizardry because the vast majority of their customers don't care either.

[toppstuff]

DT398 said:

toppstuff said:

The GTR is the "elephant in the room" simply because everything the Porsche does has already been achieved by Nissan in 2008 when they launched the GTR......

Not really. They didn't exactly achieve the looks or desirability of the 911 did they? Thankfully, it's not just about engineering, it's about ownership experience and how the car makes you feel. It's true that the 911 turbo and GTR have comparable performance but that's about it. I don't suppose Porsche lose a lot of sleep over the fact that Nissan "got there first" with some engineering wizardry because the vast majority of their customers don't care either.

You're being too parochial. In some markets other than the UK the GTR has a massive and loyal following.

Don't get me wrong, I'd pick the 911 myself, but I think it is worth noting that the GTR ( while it's styling is not admired by many and the car is clearly not some peoples cup of tea) is a truly EPIC machine. It deserves much, much more respect than it gets. In the US , for example, it seems to be much more appreciated.

But the 911 is a lovely thing and is clearly what a lot of people would choose, even though it is twice the price.

[av185]

The obvious and longstanding ace up the sleeve of the 911 turbo s compared to the 458, GTR and Mc is its usability and compact dimension even despite the increased girth and weight of the 991 over the 997. The 911 is the car I would use for rapid A and restricted width B road driving where certainly the 458 and GTR would be intimidating. BUT, whilst I love 911s, of the four cars as an ownership proposition at 150k I would have no hesitation in choosing a lightly used 458.

Still maintain the turbo s is overpriced when compared to the 991 GT3 which according to the latest Rennteam figures and if it ever arrives, should offer levels of performance (and driver involvement) on a par with the 458.....

[Wills2]

I don't get why people compare the GTR with the 911 Turbo in the way they do.

The Porsche brand addresses in the main a different market than the Nissan, some people buy into the racing history, some the looks, some the performance/handling/comfort/practicality, some the legendary status of the 911 50 years and counting etc..., some the brand kudos and I guess any combination you care to choose plus a few more no doubt.

All this slightly childish and dare I say enept "but the GTR is as fast so why not buy that" commentary doesn't really consider the journey anyone goes on when buying car.

Fact is if you want a 911 turbo you want a 911 turbo, why would you buy a car you didn't want even if it is cheaper?

[FeelingLucky]

911 Turbo/S > GT-R

Do they really appeal to the same demographic? I'm not sure...

Even with the price difference, I didn't spend much time considering the GT-R.

The service schedule is laughable, as is the ride and it's just so darn BIG!
I'm leaving out contentious points like "it's only a Datsun" or how it looks, oh, and they're noisy too.

I sprung for the extra for a 997T S, and I've not regretted it. I absolutely love the thing, superb all rounder.

(Appologies to Wills2, I think we're covering the same ground here, glad I'm not the only one...)