RE: Porsche 911 Turbo S: UK drive
Discussion
Lowtimer said:
toppstuff said:
The 911 Turbo S is now a properly expensive car.
By recent standards, it's expensive. But list price for a 330 bhp two wheel drive, manual 911 turbo SE was 73,985.06 in January 1986. If you index that by RPI inflation it comes out at roughly 173,000 in today's money. (RPI being about 234% of what it was in early 1986).The Turbo SE then was also roughly three times the price of a basic 911 coupe.
(Edited to say something in the system is stripping out all my pound signs! Those prices are both in pounds sterling)
Edited by Lowtimer on Monday 7th October 17:14
FeelingLucky said:
911 Turbo/S > GT-R
Do they really appeal to the same demographic? I'm not sure...
Even with the price difference, I didn't spend much time considering the GT-R.
The service schedule is laughable, as is the ride and it's just so darn BIG!
I'm leaving out contentious points like "it's only a Datsun" or how it looks, oh, and they're noisy too.
I sprung for the extra for a 997T S, and I've not regretted it. I absolutely love the thing, superb all rounder.
Age bracket is same but i agree that for majority of Porsche owners , the GT-R will not be on their radar- and there's a few fair who won't even know what it isDo they really appeal to the same demographic? I'm not sure...
Even with the price difference, I didn't spend much time considering the GT-R.
The service schedule is laughable, as is the ride and it's just so darn BIG!
I'm leaving out contentious points like "it's only a Datsun" or how it looks, oh, and they're noisy too.
I sprung for the extra for a 997T S, and I've not regretted it. I absolutely love the thing, superb all rounder.
911Turbo is amazing car and highly desirable - but it's GT-R for me all the way
A jag xk is longer and a Audi R8 wider and a Panamera both
Visualy the 991 turbo and GTR are so far apart (not to mention brand image in the UK) that you can't really compare them just on the basis of performance as if you attempt to use the true performance on our roads you will very quickly be doing speeds which can land you in prison. I don't think performance plays as big a role in these sorts of decisions as most people thing. How many of these cars are regularly taken to a track? Or even irregularly?
I'm currently looking to buy my first 997 Turbo (can't afford a 991 turbo unfortunately...) and the GTR was never even a consideration. To me it's a bloated, ugly, tacky, offensive looking car. I'm sure it impresses a lot of teenagers as it does look like it has come straight out of a playstation game.
The 997 turbo on the other hand, especially in the right colour which shows of it's lines (silver) is beautiful from just about every angle, in a subtle and unobtrusive way. Timelessly elegant, doesn't need to shout to get your attention.
I'm currently looking to buy my first 997 Turbo (can't afford a 991 turbo unfortunately...) and the GTR was never even a consideration. To me it's a bloated, ugly, tacky, offensive looking car. I'm sure it impresses a lot of teenagers as it does look like it has come straight out of a playstation game.
The 997 turbo on the other hand, especially in the right colour which shows of it's lines (silver) is beautiful from just about every angle, in a subtle and unobtrusive way. Timelessly elegant, doesn't need to shout to get your attention.
Chad_Hugo said:
Visualy the 991 turbo and GTR are so far apart (not to mention brand image in the UK) that you can't really compare them just on the basis of performance as if you attempt to use the true performance on our roads you will very quickly be doing speeds which can land you in prison. I don't think performance plays as big a role in these sorts of decisions as most people thing. How many of these cars are regularly taken to a track? Or even irregularly?
I'm currently looking to buy my first 997 Turbo (can't afford a 991 turbo unfortunately...) and the GTR was never even a consideration. To me it's a bloated, ugly, tacky, offensive looking car. I'm sure it impresses a lot of teenagers as it does look like it has come straight out of a playstation game.
The 997 turbo on the other hand, especially in the right colour which shows of it's lines (silver) is beautiful from just about every angle, in a subtle and unobtrusive way. Timelessly elegant, doesn't need to shout to get your attention.
If it's come "out of a playstation game"- so what?I'm currently looking to buy my first 997 Turbo (can't afford a 991 turbo unfortunately...) and the GTR was never even a consideration. To me it's a bloated, ugly, tacky, offensive looking car. I'm sure it impresses a lot of teenagers as it does look like it has come straight out of a playstation game.
The 997 turbo on the other hand, especially in the right colour which shows of it's lines (silver) is beautiful from just about every angle, in a subtle and unobtrusive way. Timelessly elegant, doesn't need to shout to get your attention.
So other supercars have never impressed teenagers ?
sideways sid said:
What happened to rear-wheel steering?
Honda had it on the Prelude and it worked brilliantly. I think Mitsubishi put it on the GTO/3000, and then it disappeared for 20 years. Now its back with similar praise.
It's always in discussion within chassis engineering. It can be engineered to provide a few advantages....it can provide VERY obvious driving benefits. Marketing departments believe customers won't pay for it. They're probably correct.Honda had it on the Prelude and it worked brilliantly. I think Mitsubishi put it on the GTO/3000, and then it disappeared for 20 years. Now its back with similar praise.
Worth mentioning that, compared to many European countries, 911s are less expensive in the UK. Go to Germany - of all places - and you'll find a 991 turbo S well over 200k and there are no ludicrous taxes on it like there are in the Netherlands with its "slurp tax". Back when my 997 turbo was coming in around 115k optioned up, the equivalent in Germany was 169k. It seems Porsche have not passed on the full effect of our tanking currency. If they did, I think the market for new Porsches here would collapse.
I agree with SL Boy about the state of our roads. I really only use my 911 abroad because the roads here are so bad - that southern concrete stretch of the M25 is a disgrace compared to the silky smooth surfaces of the French Autoroutes. German autobahns may be increasingly congested but they keep their road network in tip-top condition as evidenced (sadly) by the amount of road works which impede progress.
I agree with SL Boy about the state of our roads. I really only use my 911 abroad because the roads here are so bad - that southern concrete stretch of the M25 is a disgrace compared to the silky smooth surfaces of the French Autoroutes. German autobahns may be increasingly congested but they keep their road network in tip-top condition as evidenced (sadly) by the amount of road works which impede progress.
I live in Toronto, Canada and there are probably a few more 997Ts than GTRs. 99% of those who drive 997Ts are well over 40 however, whereas GTR drivers tend to be a decade or so younger. I know a few younger blokes who have brand new GTRs and some of them had cars as or more expensive than the 911 Turbo (Ferrari 430, Maserati GT, Audi R8 5.2); most of them in my informal poll felt that the 911 Turbo was an "old man's car."
I don't necessarily think thats true, and even if it was it wouldn't stop me buying one, though I do think that Porsche with the 911 Turbo from 996 onwards, is going for a very different audience than past models.
However, I know that my dad thinks that the GTR is ridiculous with a cheap interior and the wrong badge, whereas he'd probably replace his S63 with a 911T if his dodgy knees and bad back didn't prevent him climbing into one. Personaly I'd go for a manual 997, either Carrera S or GT3 over a GTR; if I simply wanted superbikeish power with a DSG, I'd just get the GTR over the Turbo, because to me its cooler and more iconic - horrific interior aside of course
I don't necessarily think thats true, and even if it was it wouldn't stop me buying one, though I do think that Porsche with the 911 Turbo from 996 onwards, is going for a very different audience than past models.
However, I know that my dad thinks that the GTR is ridiculous with a cheap interior and the wrong badge, whereas he'd probably replace his S63 with a 911T if his dodgy knees and bad back didn't prevent him climbing into one. Personaly I'd go for a manual 997, either Carrera S or GT3 over a GTR; if I simply wanted superbikeish power with a DSG, I'd just get the GTR over the Turbo, because to me its cooler and more iconic - horrific interior aside of course
blueSL said:
The issue for turbos has always been much higher levels of depreciation - both in absolute and percentage terms - and I doubt this will be any different. My 997 turbo has halved in value and has not yet hit 20k miles. The other issue is driver involvement or lack of it. It's good to hear this one may be different but mine doesn't come into its own until well over the legal speed limit.
I'm in total agreement with what you are saying Mark. PH'ers seriously should consider the used Turbo market as there is a good selection of these great cars at bargain prices, low mileages and will last for years.
I wonder if this will be in the line of cars that journalists rave about, and when you actually get in one its not that special. The 997turbo is like running around in a fluffy leather sofa (a bloody quick sofa though), superb GT qualities, but very insulated experience (good or bad, depending on how you are gonna use the car)... I hope this turbo is better, but I need to get into one myself first 
Comparing the 911 Turbo with the GT-R is fairly pointless.
Away from internet forums and the pages of car magazines and back in the real world, where these cars are actually bought new, the situation is clear. The market for 911 Turbos might be different in the UK (I don't know so can't comment) but in Switzerland the type of person that buys a new 911 Turbo would not drive a GT-R, even if you gave them away free. Which is why you sees lots of 911 Turbos and hardly any GT-Rs. However great the GT-R may or may not be, to the people that matter (i.e. those with the money to make a purchase) a Porsche, whether NA or Turbo, is a much more attractive proposition.
Away from internet forums and the pages of car magazines and back in the real world, where these cars are actually bought new, the situation is clear. The market for 911 Turbos might be different in the UK (I don't know so can't comment) but in Switzerland the type of person that buys a new 911 Turbo would not drive a GT-R, even if you gave them away free. Which is why you sees lots of 911 Turbos and hardly any GT-Rs. However great the GT-R may or may not be, to the people that matter (i.e. those with the money to make a purchase) a Porsche, whether NA or Turbo, is a much more attractive proposition.
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Schnellmann said:
in Switzerland the type of person that buys a new 911 Turbo would not drive a GT-R
Most people who buy 911s (perhaps with the exception of the GT cars) buy them because they are a Porsche 911. It's been a default choice in the market for years which has nothing to do with what the car actually is or does (hence all those Tiptronic C4S cabriolets). If you base your self-worth on the badge on the back of your car, you aren't going to care if the GT-R is a better thing to drive, you just don't want people to think you drive a Nissan.Wills2 said:
Why are people mentioning the 458? a base 458 is 180k, specced up they are 200k+ totally different price bracket.
Because a lightly used 458 at 150k and below is looking more attainable from Ferrari dealerships as the seaonal downturn approaches and Ferraris stock piling of used 458s catches up with them......Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff