Re: Charles Morgan fights back

[LordPetroleum]

StraightShooter said:

Scuffers said:

LordPetroleum said:

Nice, very 'wall street'. Alternatively I guess they could all shuffle off in to a quiet room and sort their differences out rather than airing their dirty laundry in public. Queensbury rules anyone...............?

probably a bit late for that....?

Queensbury rules are not something that Charles Morgan has ever has the time for. Yet he has used fisticuffs in the boardroom on occasion. Volatile guy. Nothing like his elegant father and grandfather. Last time they all tried to get rid of him, he threatened the family and the directors with criminal actions and lawsuits. This time they are not backing down, so far. Let's see what happens in Court next Friday. I smell a minority shareholder searching for a big payoff.

He is simply too unpredictable for the company to afford. Loose cannon. And as long as he is presented as a part of the company, in any capacity, he has the ability to bind it legally and very painfully. The millions in BMW engines is only one example.

No current family member has any automobile or business training. Charles Morgan is a TV cameraman for Heaven's sake! So if 70% of his family and his two co-managers think he has to go, we can assume they were forced to that decision. The present public antics of him and his wife give us a taste of what the family have been putting up with for years. Distasteful.

Strewth, it's all very Midsomer Murders isn't it. Reckon there will be a few bodies on the floor by the time this is all done. Were is John Nettles when you need him.

[EskimoArapaho]

AER said:

A good friend of mine, who is not a petrol head but has a lifetime of board membership, shareholding, MDship and expensive legal disputes behind him, told me his opinion as follows (not verbatim)

If CM doesn't have any NDA or non-compete clause in his employment contract, he should firstly go after the company for unfair dismissal. Secondly, he should found the New Morgan Motor Company (or similar) and make a public announcement seeking financial backing from the Morgan owners and enthusiasts, perhaps offering share options for people who cancel their refundable orders with MMCL - basically attempt to trash the MMCL order book. With any luck this should put enough stress on the MMCL/MTL board as well as make a large dent in their cash position. At some point with sales heading south and enough bad will floating around towards the board, MMCL will be looking decidedly ropey. Then CM could raise enough capital and finance to buy out MMCL and reacquire the name/rights/designs/premises to continue where he left off, but with a controlling interest in the company.

FWIW...

A recipe for enriching lawyers on both sides and making everyone else - customers, shareholders and employees - poorer. Friends, eh?

[oldtimer2]

LordPetroleum said:

StraightShooter said:

Scuffers said:

LordPetroleum said:

Nice, very 'wall street'. Alternatively I guess they could all shuffle off in to a quiet room and sort their differences out rather than airing their dirty laundry in public. Queensbury rules anyone...............?

probably a bit late for that....?

Queensbury rules are not something that Charles Morgan has ever has the time for. Yet he has used fisticuffs in the boardroom on occasion. Volatile guy. Nothing like his elegant father and grandfather. Last time they all tried to get rid of him, he threatened the family and the directors with criminal actions and lawsuits. This time they are not backing down, so far. Let's see what happens in Court next Friday. I smell a minority shareholder searching for a big payoff.

He is simply too unpredictable for the company to afford. Loose cannon. And as long as he is presented as a part of the company, in any capacity, he has the ability to bind it legally and very painfully. The millions in BMW engines is only one example.

No current family member has any automobile or business training. Charles Morgan is a TV cameraman for Heaven's sake! So if 70% of his family and his two co-managers think he has to go, we can assume they were forced to that decision. The present public antics of him and his wife give us a taste of what the family have been putting up with for years. Distasteful.

Strewth, it's all very Midsomer Murders isn't it. Reckon there will be a few bodies on the floor by the time this is all done. Were is John Nettles when you need him.

If this is the background it could well end in tears. It sounds as though he may have been committing the business financially without the agreement (or knowledge?) of the other shareholders after he ceased to be MD. If so the reaction of other shareholders is understandable. Some might conclude that the business is better off closed and the site redeveloped.

[DonkeyApple]

oldtimer2 said:

If this is the background it could well end in tears. It sounds as though he may have been committing the business financially without the agreement (or knowledge?) of the other shareholders after he ceased to be MD. If so the reaction of other shareholders is understandable. Some might conclude that the business is better off closed and the site redeveloped.

It could also be the all too common event of an old English family not liking a non standard daughter/sister in law and the fancy new lifestyle the husband embarks upon?

All clutching at straws but statistically it is one of the most common rifts in family businesses.

[greatmalvern]

oldtimer2 said:

If this is the background it could well end in tears. It sounds as though he may have been committing the business financially without the agreement (or knowledge?) of the other shareholders after he ceased to be MD. If so the reaction of other shareholders is understandable. Some might conclude that the business is better off closed and the site redeveloped.

Just about the last thing we all want to see in Malvern is the factory closed up and the site sold for yet more retirement blocks! No matter what the final outcome of this current fiasco, damage has surely been done to the brand which will take quite a while for the business to get over. Rest assured, the brilliant skilled workforce will continue to produce these unique cars, even if morale is very low at the present time. Differing opinions about Charles Morgan on many forums and social media sites at the moment, but the employees (or at least the vast majority) hold CM in very high regard and have the utmost respect for him.

[Bebee]

I would love a Morgan and let me tell you, no amount of unrest within the company will alter my desire to own one, providing they continue to build them and quality doesn't suffer as a result of CM going, then it will still be a car I long to own, after all, it's about the car, not the politics. This PR disaster everyone talks about isn't IMO going to affect sales long term if the product is still of quality.

[sammi]

Bebee said:

This PR disaster everyone talks about isn't IMO going to affect sales long term if the product is still of quality.

Lets hope so, and that if the board clearly don't feel that CM is 'fit for the purpose', he has the sense to accept it, and leave with dignity, if only to preserve the value of his 30% holding !

[anonymous-user]

Nobody who owns a Morgan is young enough to know what the INTERNET is for this to be a PR disaster... Once its in the Telegraph thats when st will hit the 1930s desk fan.

[StuB]

greatmalvern said:

Just about the last thing we all want to see in Malvern is the factory closed up and the site sold for yet more retirement blocks! No matter what the final outcome of this current fiasco, damage has surely been done to the brand which will take quite a while for the business to get over. Rest assured, the brilliant skilled workforce will continue to produce these unique cars, even if morale is very low at the present time. Differing opinions about Charles Morgan on many forums and social media sites at the moment, but the employees (or at least the vast majority) hold CM in very high regard and have the utmost respect for him.

Well said. I figure by the profile name you may well have a vested interest. I hope this does not detract from the marque & it's fantastic heritage. Ferrari doesn't seem to have done too bad (dreadful branded thongs & the like excepted) in various custodians hands and Morgan's USP is in similarly engrained in the local DNA.

Still sad to see this in the public domain but it seems CM has nothing to lose in fighting his corner.

Bet the vultures (legal or otherwise) are circling, waiting to prey on this scenario & pick over such an appealing morsel.

Wishing the brand every success & welcome to PH.

[Ozzie Osmond]

lordf said:

Nobody who owns a Morgan is young enough to know what the INTERNET is for this to be a PR disaster... Once it's in the Telegraph thats when st will hit the 1930s desk fan.

^^^ Brilliant!

[StraightShooter]

greatmalvern said:

No matter what the final outcome of this current fiasco, damage has surely been done to the brand which will take quite a while for the business to get over. Rest assured, the brilliant skilled workforce will continue to produce these unique cars, even if morale is very low at the present time. Differing opinions about Charles Morgan on many forums and social media sites at the moment, but the employees (or at least the vast majority) hold CM in very high regard and have the utmost respect for him.

With due respect for your stress, you are presenting a self-serving perspective. The old skills left with the old staff a decade ago. Charles, Morris and Whitworth changed the factory into an assembly plant and it is far too late to pretend otherwise. Even Morgan press releases use the term now. Sadly, any quality left with the old staff. Seen any hand beaten wings or a packed Tin Shop lately?

As for CM being held in "high regard" by all the new employees, why did they all clap when Management announced to them that he was no longer involved? You know he could never have been ousted by his family without Morris and Whitworth pressing for it.

Edited by StraightShooter on Sunday 20th October 23:17

[2.5pi]

lordf said:

Nobody who owns a Morgan is young enough to know what the INTERNET is for this to be a PR disaster... Once its in the Telegraph thats when st will hit the 1930s desk fan.

It was in the Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/in...

..it's all a bit like an automotive Ambridge AFAIAC

[AER]

EskimoArapaho said:

AER said:

A good friend of mine, who is not a petrol head but has a lifetime of board membership, shareholding, MDship and expensive legal disputes behind him, told me his opinion as follows (not verbatim)

If CM doesn't have any NDA or non-compete clause in his employment contract, he should firstly go after the company for unfair dismissal. Secondly, he should found the New Morgan Motor Company (or similar) and make a public announcement seeking financial backing from the Morgan owners and enthusiasts, perhaps offering share options for people who cancel their refundable orders with MMCL - basically attempt to trash the MMCL order book. With any luck this should put enough stress on the MMCL/MTL board as well as make a large dent in their cash position. At some point with sales heading south and enough bad will floating around towards the board, MMCL will be looking decidedly ropey. Then CM could raise enough capital and finance to buy out MMCL and reacquire the name/rights/designs/premises to continue where he left off, but with a controlling interest in the company.

FWIW...

A recipe for enriching lawyers on both sides and making everyone else - customers, shareholders and employees - poorer. Friends, eh?

The point my friend was making was that a legal fight will enrich the lawyers ahead of anyone else, but taking the dispute to the marketplace might be the cheapest way to find out where the real value lies.

[greatmalvern]

StraightShooter said:

With due respect for your stress, you are presenting a self-serving perspective. The old skills left with the old staff a decade ago. Charles, Morris and Whitworth changed the factory into an assembly plant and it is far too late to pretend otherwise. Even Morgan press releases use the term now. Sadly, any quality left with the old staff. Seen any hand beaten wings or a packed Tin Shop lately?

As for CM being held in "high regard" by all the new employees, why did they all clap when Management announced to them that he was no longer involved? You know he could never have been ousted by his family without Morris and Whitworth pressing for it.

Edited by StraightShooter on Sunday 20th October 23:17

Too right I have a 'self-serving' perspective, and you also appear to know quite a bit about the goings-on within the factory. I agree that the build system they have in place has gravitated toward assembly and away from 'hand built' in recent years but there is still considerable skill employed on site in order to construct these cars. I don't recall mentioning anything about his 'ousting' in my post, but if you wish to debate that, then I'm up for it. Of course we can assume that Morris and Whitworth lead the family board members down this sorry path because they are the two people involved in the day-to-day running of the factory. I am also not placing a halo over the head of CM, he has his faults like we all do, but I happen to know for a fact the four reasons which were given to him by the board which resulted in him being asked to leave. They will no doubt become public in a few days time after the hearing on Friday?

[Gaspode]

StraightShooter said:

With due respect for your stress, you are presenting a self-serving perspective.

Edited by StraightShooter on Sunday 20th October 23:17

And your posts don't? Your writing style reveals much about you....

[Thehandshake]

Who cares, honestly

[Strawman]

The company is unique which is partly why I'm interested, the last British owned mass car manufacturer (I suppose MacLaren is the next by volume). Sochiro Honda's back in the 90's(?) said "There will ultimately be 6 major companies" then he paused and said "and Morgan". So it's not like an obscure part of the car making world.

[greatmalvern]

Thehandshake said:

Who cares, honestly

Quite a few of us actually, that's why we are on here; thought this was a motoring forum?

[littleredrooster]

Thehandshake said:

Who cares, honestly

Vast numbers on this motoring forum, for a start.

If you cannot appreciate the gravity of the situation facing the last bastion of the British-owned motor industry, you're probably better off returning to Mumsnet.

[Bebee]

One day when funds allow.........