Re: Charles Morgan fights back
Discussion
littleredrooster said:
Thehandshake said:
Who cares, honestly
Vast numbers on this motoring forum, for a start.If you cannot appreciate the gravity of the situation facing the last bastion of the British-owned motor industry, you're probably better off returning to Mumsnet.
Remember when Dany Bahar was ousted, and there was an outpouring of sympathy? There were all sorts of stories about him fighting back, putting his side of the story .... until everyone realised that, somewhat embarrassingly, Lotus were pretty much right to do what they did.
The truth about Morgan will emerge shortly, and I do not expect CM to come out of it well. It's a PR nightmare, I agree, but I suspect the company had little option but to do what they did. They were probably also expecting his 'scorched earth' response (this in itself shows a stunning lack of emotional maturity), but figured that if it was going to happen anyway there was no point in prolonging any further.
People who are'nt bothered about Morgan are just massively uneducated.
You may not like the cars, but they have a small and important role.
And it is not just about old cars for old duffers either - the Morgan racing scene is fantastic: keenly competitive, epic racing with plenty of young drivers. Its like a Gentlemans version of Caterham racing.
I have driven a Morgan Lightweight V6 racer a couple of times. Epic machines (road legal too !) and definitely on my wish list.
You may not like the cars, but they have a small and important role.
And it is not just about old cars for old duffers either - the Morgan racing scene is fantastic: keenly competitive, epic racing with plenty of young drivers. Its like a Gentlemans version of Caterham racing.
I have driven a Morgan Lightweight V6 racer a couple of times. Epic machines (road legal too !) and definitely on my wish list.
One day when funds allow.........![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/8u090n0b.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/qObZPpl1" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/qObZPpl1.jpg)
greatmalvern said:
Too right I have a 'self-serving' perspective, and you also appear to know quite a bit about the goings-on within the factory. I agree that the build system they have in place has gravitated toward assembly and away from 'hand built' in recent years but there is still considerable skill employed on site in order to construct these cars.
....but I happen to know for a fact the four reasons which were given to him by the board which resulted in him being asked to leave. They will no doubt become public in a few days time after the hearing on Friday?
If I gave the impression that I saw anything lacking in today's Morgan work force, my apologies. Any problems I do see stem from the "top". Today's staff, old and new, are affable, interested and so obviously more intelligent than those managing them. But they are forced to too many shortcuts and time pressures to display craftsmanship anymore. The only way to triple production with the same staff and facilities is to do it badly. ....but I happen to know for a fact the four reasons which were given to him by the board which resulted in him being asked to leave. They will no doubt become public in a few days time after the hearing on Friday?
My I offer you a bit of old man's wisdom. There are only two business problems in a private company..not four. One is too much money and the other is not enough. Tales of anything else are rubbish.
By the way, if there is an urgent Hearing already fixed for Friday, then it is very possible that the documents outlining Mr. Morgan's version of events have already been filed.
Strawman said:
The company is unique which is partly why I'm interested, the last British owned mass car manufacturer (I suppose MacLaren is the next by volume).
McLaren is 50% owned by the Bahraini Royal Family, through Mumtalakat (their sovereign wealth fund).The remaining 50% is Ron Dennis (25%) and Mansour Ojjeh's TAG group (25%).
Are McLaren British owned? No.
Morgan is, though.
StraightShooter said:
greatmalvern said:
Too right I have a 'self-serving' perspective, and you also appear to know quite a bit about the goings-on within the factory. I agree that the build system they have in place has gravitated toward assembly and away from 'hand built' in recent years but there is still considerable skill employed on site in order to construct these cars.
....but I happen to know for a fact the four reasons which were given to him by the board which resulted in him being asked to leave. They will no doubt become public in a few days time after the hearing on Friday?
If I gave the impression that I saw anything lacking in today's Morgan work force, my apologies. Any problems I do see stem from the "top". Today's staff, old and new, are affable, interested and so obviously more intelligent than those managing them. But they are forced to too many shortcuts and time pressures to display craftsmanship anymore. The only way to triple production with the same staff and facilities is to do it badly. ....but I happen to know for a fact the four reasons which were given to him by the board which resulted in him being asked to leave. They will no doubt become public in a few days time after the hearing on Friday?
My I offer you a bit of old man's wisdom. There are only two business problems in a private company..not four. One is too much money and the other is not enough. Tales of anything else are rubbish.
By the way, if there is an urgent Hearing already fixed for Friday, then it is very possible that the documents outlining Mr. Morgan's version of events have already been filed.
[
Strawman said:
The company ... the last British owned mass car manufacturer (I suppose MacLaren is the next by volume).
I don't think either of those get remotely near qualifying for "mass manufacture"- Morgan and McLaren combined produce about 8 cars a day
- VW and Toyota each produce about 72,000 cars a day
Ozzie Osmond said:
I don't think either of those get remotely near qualifying for "mass manufacture"
Or, Morgan and McLaren make 8 cars a day and VW and Toyota make 72,000 utility transport products a day? - Morgan and McLaren combined produce about 8 cars a day
- VW and Toyota each produce about 72,000 cars a day
carl_w said:
toppstuff said:
I have driven a Morgan Lightweight V6 racer a couple of times. Epic machines (road legal too !) and definitely on my wish list.
What does the "R" under the race number mean? I've seen orange circles for methanol-fuelled and D for a disabled driver, but never an R.we run different coloured roundels for each class but others have a letter like that on the roundel
2.5pi said:
It was in the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/in...
..it's all a bit like an automotive Ambridge AFAIAC
Unless its made it to the print edition then its still good. If not then lots of tea will spat into lots of papers along with people shouting CORRR and BLILEY and Well I never etc....http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/in...
..it's all a bit like an automotive Ambridge AFAIAC
StraightShooter said:
greatmalvern said:
No matter what the final outcome of this current fiasco, damage has surely been done to the brand which will take quite a while for the business to get over. Rest assured, the brilliant skilled workforce will continue to produce these unique cars, even if morale is very low at the present time. Differing opinions about Charles Morgan on many forums and social media sites at the moment, but the employees (or at least the vast majority) hold CM in very high regard and have the utmost respect for him.
With due respect for your stress, you are presenting a self-serving perspective. The old skills left with the old staff a decade ago. Charles, Morris and Whitworth changed the factory into an assembly plant and it is far too late to pretend otherwise. Even Morgan press releases use the term now. Sadly, any quality left with the old staff. Seen any hand beaten wings or a packed Tin Shop lately? As for CM being held in "high regard" by all the new employees, why did they all clap when Management announced to them that he was no longer involved? You know he could never have been ousted by his family without Morris and Whitworth pressing for it.
You seem, going off your posts to have a very anti CM agenda....fair enough, possibly you know a lot more than many on here about what has been going on behind the scenes......I accept that.
But:-
Where I must take issue with you is where you say the old skills left a decade ago ago in the factory. Well I must have visited Malvern Link over 15 times since the mid seventies, the last time in January this year, and many of the old skills are still present, for instance the panel beaters and carpenters building the trads......granted there is a new high tech paint shop, installed a few years ago, but that's just progress.
Just my 2p.
sisu said:
As a contrast here is an inteview with Horatio Pagani explaining why he has stayed small even after being offered large amounts of money and what makes him tick.
Full article here
There isn’t an exclusivity any more. When I was a kid I heard a phrase then now I use often: “It’s better to be a mouse’s head than a lion’s tail” meaning that it’s better to stay small and that will continue to stay our main philosophy. We’ve had offers from big companies that wanted us to really use the brand, make thousands of cars a year but this is a company that is 90% owned by myself and my family. I have an American partner, the co-inventor of the mouse, they follow the US market much like we do here, a family that made its wealth from zero. So while I welcome passionate people that want to work here, I’m not interested in big corporations that want to change the way we do things, make the company public… no thank you. I want to stay here, with my dog, my bicycle…
So not only does he make great cars, he has a great attitude.Full article here
There isn’t an exclusivity any more. When I was a kid I heard a phrase then now I use often: “It’s better to be a mouse’s head than a lion’s tail” meaning that it’s better to stay small and that will continue to stay our main philosophy. We’ve had offers from big companies that wanted us to really use the brand, make thousands of cars a year but this is a company that is 90% owned by myself and my family. I have an American partner, the co-inventor of the mouse, they follow the US market much like we do here, a family that made its wealth from zero. So while I welcome passionate people that want to work here, I’m not interested in big corporations that want to change the way we do things, make the company public… no thank you. I want to stay here, with my dog, my bicycle…
Coincidence?
Quote from Autocar
"A board meeting convened while Charles Morgan was on sick leave concluded that he had posed as chairman despite being demoted to strategy director in February; supported Oak Racing and the Nissan-engined Morgan 2012 LMP2 car at Le Mans and in the LMP series without approval; announced to a small group of Morgan owners that an improved version of the Morgan 3 Wheeler was to be launched and that he took two payments for talks about his time with ITN in Afghanistan and Iran without seeking board approval.
According to the document seen by Autocar, the decision was made by the membership of the board of Morgan Technologies: Steven Morris (Morgan's managing Director), Timothy Whitworth (Morgan's finance director), Gillian Price (Charles's sister), David Price (Charles's brother-in-law), Laurence Price (Charles's nephew), Craig Hamilton Smith (Charles's nephew), Jackie Pertwee (Charles's niece) and Andrew Duncan (the Morgan family solicitor).
Charles Morgan has already signalled his intent to appeal the decision, denying the accusations of misconduct."
Yep, still sounds very messy......................
"A board meeting convened while Charles Morgan was on sick leave concluded that he had posed as chairman despite being demoted to strategy director in February; supported Oak Racing and the Nissan-engined Morgan 2012 LMP2 car at Le Mans and in the LMP series without approval; announced to a small group of Morgan owners that an improved version of the Morgan 3 Wheeler was to be launched and that he took two payments for talks about his time with ITN in Afghanistan and Iran without seeking board approval.
According to the document seen by Autocar, the decision was made by the membership of the board of Morgan Technologies: Steven Morris (Morgan's managing Director), Timothy Whitworth (Morgan's finance director), Gillian Price (Charles's sister), David Price (Charles's brother-in-law), Laurence Price (Charles's nephew), Craig Hamilton Smith (Charles's nephew), Jackie Pertwee (Charles's niece) and Andrew Duncan (the Morgan family solicitor).
Charles Morgan has already signalled his intent to appeal the decision, denying the accusations of misconduct."
Yep, still sounds very messy......................
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff