RE: VW Golf GTI vs BMW M135i vs Mercedes A45 AMG
Discussion
kambites said:
I think the 370Z is a rather odd comparison. Surely no-one buys a 1-series unless they need four seats?
Not necessarily. I don't use the rear seats in my Porsche 944 Turbo to put passengers in: I have never had more than one passenger in it. But the fact that it has rear seats means I can do a lot more with it than with a mid-engine two-seater. It has a lot more space that I can use for luggage. Two people can go away on holiday much more easily in a car like that, or a 370, or a 1-series, than they can in a Cayman / Boxster. And I can easily throw a mountain bike into it, all I have to do is pop off the front wheel.Edited by Lowtimer on Tuesday 29th October 08:43
Lowtimer said:
kambites said:
I think the 370Z is a rather odd comparison. Surely no-one buys a 1-series unless they need four seats?
Not necessarily. I don't use the rear seats in my Porsche 944 Turbo and have never had more than one passenger in it. But the fact that it has rear seats means it has a lot more space that I can use for luggage. Two people can go away on holiday much more easily in a car like that, or a 370, or a 1-series, than they can in a Cayman / Boxster. kambites said:
I think the 370Z is a rather odd comparison. Surely no-one buys a 1-series unless they need four seats?
They compared it to a Cayman in these monotonous tests didn't they?I think they're buying the 1 series because of the badge and the numbers. It could have 8 seats and look like a pig and I think people would still buy it ignorantly without realising there are other options available if you want 300+ bhp for less money.
Let's be honest, everyone's been thinking "fantastic job BMW, M performance for £30k. Now NO manufacturer can match that (patting BMW on the back)".
But they (other manufacturers) have and they do (with LSDs and NA engines).
kambites said:
elementad said:
They compared it to a Cayman in these monotonous tests didn't they?
Yes they did, and IIRC concluded that the only reason to buy the BMW was the extra practicality. General Zod said:
For all the posts like "buy X plus a caterham"- have you ever done this? In my experience you end up with all the running costs and space issues of two cars but spend 95 % of the time in the "more boring" car.
These kind of cars address this fundamental issue to a reasonable degree.
I see you point with this and yes I have ran an elise as a second car a few years ago, albeit a company car. No doubt the Merc is fast and very very capable but how often could you use that 350bhp? In my circumstances of a short daily drive I couldn’t use it, unless I put aside some time on the weekend or summer nights to go for a ‘Drive’, which is what I do. This is where I would rather be climbing into something more like as mentioned, a Caterham. The Merc to me is more than a hot hatch and I think people’s perceptions of what a hot hatch is has gone into different directions. To me a hot hatch is something light fun that you grab by the scruff of the neck, to others it is a car that does ‘everything’ fast, comfy etc. Hats off to people who buy them though, life would be pretty crap if we all had the same perceptions.These kind of cars address this fundamental issue to a reasonable degree.
elementad said:
Exactly, so getting back on track, it's not an odd comparison.
I can't say I understand your reasoning there. 
The comparison has already been done - if you don't need the practicality there are better cars than the M135i. Probably quite a lot of them, in fact. If you do need the extra practicality, the comparison is obviously irrelevant.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 29th October 09:46
Tickle said:
General Zod said:
For all the posts like "buy X plus a caterham"- have you ever done this? In my experience you end up with all the running costs and space issues of two cars but spend 95 % of the time in the "more boring" car.
These kind of cars address this fundamental issue to a reasonable degree.
I see you point with this and yes I have ran an elise as a second car a few years ago, albeit a company car. No doubt the Merc is fast and very very capable but how often could you use that 350bhp? In my circumstances of a short daily drive I couldn’t use it, unless I put aside some time on the weekend or summer nights to go for a ‘Drive’, which is what I do. This is where I would rather be climbing into something more like as mentioned, a Caterham. The Merc to me is more than a hot hatch and I think people’s perceptions of what a hot hatch is has gone into different directions. To me a hot hatch is something light fun that you grab by the scruff of the neck, to others it is a car that does ‘everything’ fast, comfy etc. Hats off to people who buy them though, life would be pretty crap if we all had the same perceptions.These kind of cars address this fundamental issue to a reasonable degree.
ETA I drive Aberdeenshire roads everyday, so there's no problem using 400bhp+...
Edited by Guffy on Tuesday 29th October 11:13
Deako said:
The diff is going to be a retrofit dealer option. And will be available on the M135i. I always loved an ugly duckling, and personally love the looks of the M135i. 
Mine on collection day back in September:
Beautiful car IMO. Particularly the front end. Quite frankly it makes the other 2 look bland.Mine on collection day back in September:
mainaman said:
Stop slating the A45 as too expensive and implying that the Beemer is a bargain.It is the other way around.To get the M135 close to what a "basic " A45 offers you need to add the autobox and the LSD ,to retrofit M3's front seats and at least Stage 1 engine upgrade.So a 30k car becomes 37k car that is still less bespoke than the factory spec Merc, which can be specified with an optional bodykit that is not available on any other A class.
Beautiful man's math.;)BrewsterBear said:
...... I've avoided my local Merc dealer for the last few months because I can't see how I'd leave without placing an order.
I can help.My Merc dealer treated me like a pauper coz the SL was 5 years old.
I found it no problem whatsover to walk out without placing an order....
nickfrog said:
Deako said:
The diff is going to be a retrofit dealer option. And will be available on the M135i. I always loved an ugly duckling, and personally love the looks of the M135i.
Mine on collection day back in September:
Beautiful car IMO. Particularly the front end. Quite frankly it makes the other 2 look bland.Mine on collection day back in September:
mainaman said:
Stop slating the A45 as too expensive and implying that the Beemer is a bargain.It is the other way around.To get the M135 close to what a "basic " A45 offers you need to add the autobox and the LSD ,to retrofit M3's front seats and at least Stage 1 engine upgrade.So a 30k car becomes 37k car that is still less bespoke than the factory spec Merc, which can be specified with an optional bodykit that is not available on any other A class.
That's hogwash and you know it. It should be noted, for example, that to get leather seats (standard in the BMW) in your A45, Merc has the sheer cheek to charge an extra £2,120 (required to be part of "AMG Exclusive Pack" that also nets you heated memory seats). Don't know about you but I absolutely expect not to sit on Artico in a hatchback listing at the thick end of £38k before options.Specced up to have the sort of toys I want in what is, whichever you look at it, a luxury hatchback:
A45:
OTR: £37,845
Metallic paint: £570
Heated memory leather seats (have to be ordered together as a pack): £2,120
Mirror package: £310
Intelligent Light System: £570
Panoramic Sunroof: £900
COMAND: £2,100
HK audio: £680
Total: £45,095
M135 Auto 5dr:
OTR: £32,595
Metallic paint: £550
Heated seats: £295
Memory seats: £650
Folding mirrors: £275
Visibility Pack: £440
Sunroof: £895
Prof Media Pack: £1,990
HK audio: £600
Driver Comfort Pack: £385
Total: £38,675
And just for good measure (and an extra kicking on the price front), the GTI 5dr DSG:
OTR: £27,915
Metallic paint: £525
Performance Pack: £980
Heated leather seats: £1,695
Memory seats: £n/a
Folding mirrors: £standard
High-beam assist: £140
Panoramic Sunroof: £910
Discover Pro Nav: £1,725
DynAudio: £525
Total: £34,415
Merc still looks pretty darned expensive to me regardless of whether you would feel the need to add an LSD and an engine tune to either the M135i or Golf (and BTW since Autocar timed an M135i to 60 in just 4.6 secs, I'd suggest it really doesn't need tuning). And that was without any of the fancy stuff (bigger alloys, bodykit etc) required to distinguish your A45 from an A200 "Engineered by AMG". Might be bespoke. Doesn't look it. To get the "bespoke" look, you need to add 19" alloys (£615), and as you suggested either the AMG Aerodynamics Kit (£1,530) or AMG Bodystyling with carbon (£2,550), which has you rapidly heading towards £48k and beyond…
simo1863 said:
nickfrog said:
Beautiful man's math.;)
I think what he means is if you want to go slower for less money then get an M135iThe gap for the average road driver might be bigger though.
As I prefer a 2wd manual 3dr, I'd happily save £10k and get the slow beemer.
Amirhussain said:
nickfrog said:
Deako said:
Beautiful car IMO. Particularly the front end. Quite frankly it makes the other 2 look bland.As for bland - it looks like any other diesel crap-box 1 series - how is that interesting?
nickfrog said:
True, I think Harris found the gap being 0.2sec/lap between the 2 cars, on a short track IIRC.
The gap for the average road driver might be bigger though.
As I prefer a 2wd manual 3dr, I'd happily save £10k and get the slow beemer.
Weren't they on vastly different tyres or something?The gap for the average road driver might be bigger though.
As I prefer a 2wd manual 3dr, I'd happily save £10k and get the slow beemer.
I agree on the RWD issue, I much prefer it but surely the point of these cars is to go fast? Otherwise save yourself £20k and get a Hyundai i10.
I actually think it's a bit of a daft comparison, the A45 is more akin to a proper M car, hence why the 1M was very similar in terms of performance, power and cost. I've not driven an A45 though so will see after Friday when I've had a bash.
I'm not as fussed by aesthetics as some and it's totally subjective but I'd rank them as Golf > A45 > M135i.
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