RE: VW Golf GTI vs BMW M135i vs Mercedes A45 AMG
Discussion
True, the BMW is on Supersports (they come with those as std) but those are still full tread road tyres so difficult to evaluate the difference with "lesser" road tyres, not sure what the Merc was wearing. I guess tyre performance differential might be similar to the effect of the added power on the Merc.
Let's be honest, those cars can't be driven at more than 6/10th on an open road without imminent loss of licence so a tiny (potential) performance gap for £10k ?
Let's be honest, those cars can't be driven at more than 6/10th on an open road without imminent loss of licence so a tiny (potential) performance gap for £10k ?
nickfrog said:
Let's be honest, those cars can't be driven at more than 6/10th on an open road without imminent loss of licence so a tiny (potential) performance gap for £10k ?
So why not just buy a 120d? 
My car has less than 160bhp and it's pretty rare that I get to use full throttle on the public road for more than a couple of seconds.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 29th October 15:03
First post, so please be gentle.
I had a test drive in an A45 last weekend. I think it's a fine car it goes, stops and turns loverly.
Maybe it's poor driving style, but I use engine braking when I want to slow a car a little bit. In the A45, there is a much more deceleration from engine braking than any other car I've driven. It's possible the car had changed down a gear, I didn't check. At this point of the test drive, I was in 'comfort' seeing if the car was suitable for 'family' use.
Perhaps I should either be accelerating or decelerating with my hair on fire and not just coasting along like an old man.
Has anyone else noticed this? Or is it as expected?
I had a test drive in an A45 last weekend. I think it's a fine car it goes, stops and turns loverly.
Maybe it's poor driving style, but I use engine braking when I want to slow a car a little bit. In the A45, there is a much more deceleration from engine braking than any other car I've driven. It's possible the car had changed down a gear, I didn't check. At this point of the test drive, I was in 'comfort' seeing if the car was suitable for 'family' use.
Perhaps I should either be accelerating or decelerating with my hair on fire and not just coasting along like an old man.
Has anyone else noticed this? Or is it as expected?
Marts1234 said:
First post, so please be gentle.
I had a test drive in an A45 last weekend. I think it's a fine car it goes, stops and turns loverly.
Maybe it's poor driving style, but I use engine braking when I want to slow a car a little bit. In the A45, there is a much more deceleration from engine braking than any other car I've driven. It's possible the car had changed down a gear, I didn't check. At this point of the test drive, I was in 'comfort' seeing if the car was suitable for 'family' use.
Perhaps I should either be accelerating or decelerating with my hair on fire and not just coasting along like an old man.
Has anyone else noticed this? Or is it as expected?
Not driven the A45 but what you are 'feeling' maybe a light flywheel. My Cerb has a very light one and goes up and dfown teh revs like a bike, and it can also be felt pottering on a light throtle, almost jerky, no inertial in the flywheel mass to smooth it out, apparently.I had a test drive in an A45 last weekend. I think it's a fine car it goes, stops and turns loverly.
Maybe it's poor driving style, but I use engine braking when I want to slow a car a little bit. In the A45, there is a much more deceleration from engine braking than any other car I've driven. It's possible the car had changed down a gear, I didn't check. At this point of the test drive, I was in 'comfort' seeing if the car was suitable for 'family' use.
Perhaps I should either be accelerating or decelerating with my hair on fire and not just coasting along like an old man.
Has anyone else noticed this? Or is it as expected?
simo1863 said:
Weren't they on vastly different tyres or something?
I agree on the RWD issue, I much prefer it but surely the point of these cars is to go fast? Otherwise save yourself £20k and get a Hyundai i10.
I actually think it's a bit of a daft comparison, the A45 is more akin to a proper M car, hence why the 1M was very similar in terms of performance, power and cost. I've not driven an A45 though so will see after Friday when I've had a bash.
I'm not as fussed by aesthetics as some and it's totally subjective but I'd rank them as Golf > A45 > M135i.
Id wouldnt say the point is to go fast, more to cover ground rapidly in comfort. The extras mentioned dont seem to benefit speedI agree on the RWD issue, I much prefer it but surely the point of these cars is to go fast? Otherwise save yourself £20k and get a Hyundai i10.
I actually think it's a bit of a daft comparison, the A45 is more akin to a proper M car, hence why the 1M was very similar in terms of performance, power and cost. I've not driven an A45 though so will see after Friday when I've had a bash.
I'm not as fussed by aesthetics as some and it's totally subjective but I'd rank them as Golf > A45 > M135i.
Heated seats:
Memory seats:
Folding mirrors:
Visibility Pack:
Sunroof:
Prof Media Pack:
HK audio:
Driver Comfort Pack:
Wolands Advocate said:
That's hogwash and you know it. It should be noted, for example, that to get leather seats (standard in the BMW) in your A45, Merc has the sheer cheek to charge an extra £2,120 (required to be part of "AMG Exclusive Pack" that also nets you heated memory seats). Don't know about you but I absolutely expect not to sit on Artico in a hatchback listing at the thick end of £38k before options.
Specced up to have the sort of toys I want in what is, whichever you look at it, a luxury hatchback:
A45:
OTR: £37,845
Metallic paint: £570
Heated memory leather seats (have to be ordered together as a pack): £2,120
Mirror package: £310
Intelligent Light System: £570
Panoramic Sunroof: £900
COMAND: £2,100
HK audio: £680
Total: £45,095
M135 Auto 5dr:
OTR: £32,595
Metallic paint: £550
Heated seats: £295
Memory seats: £650
Folding mirrors: £275
Visibility Pack: £440
Sunroof: £895
Prof Media Pack: £1,990
HK audio: £600
Driver Comfort Pack: £385
Total: £38,675
And just for good measure (and an extra kicking on the price front), the GTI 5dr DSG:
OTR: £27,915
Metallic paint: £525
Performance Pack: £980
Heated leather seats: £1,695
Memory seats: £n/a
Folding mirrors: £standard
High-beam assist: £140
Panoramic Sunroof: £910
Discover Pro Nav: £1,725
DynAudio: £525
Total: £34,415
Merc still looks pretty darned expensive to me regardless of whether you would feel the need to add an LSD and an engine tune to either the M135i or Golf (and BTW since Autocar timed an M135i to 60 in just 4.6 secs, I'd suggest it really doesn't need tuning). And that was without any of the fancy stuff (bigger alloys, bodykit etc) required to distinguish your A45 from an A200 "Engineered by AMG". Might be bespoke. Doesn't look it. To get the "bespoke" look, you need to add 19" alloys (£615), and as you suggested either the AMG Aerodynamics Kit (£1,530) or AMG Bodystyling with carbon (£2,550), which has you rapidly heading towards £48k and beyond…
I was discussing the performance and handling bits,not sunroofs.This articles is the latest one that states the Beemer's need for a LSD on a spirited drive.Regarding the seats,i find it amusing that even the 1M lacked sports seats, not even as an option as on VAG's mega hatches.Leather or not,the Merc comes with supportive and bolstered front seats that clamp you when monstering a back road.And find me a cheaper car on sale that offers this blend of performance,roadholding,(relative)luxury and practicality.Specced up to have the sort of toys I want in what is, whichever you look at it, a luxury hatchback:
A45:
OTR: £37,845
Metallic paint: £570
Heated memory leather seats (have to be ordered together as a pack): £2,120
Mirror package: £310
Intelligent Light System: £570
Panoramic Sunroof: £900
COMAND: £2,100
HK audio: £680
Total: £45,095
M135 Auto 5dr:
OTR: £32,595
Metallic paint: £550
Heated seats: £295
Memory seats: £650
Folding mirrors: £275
Visibility Pack: £440
Sunroof: £895
Prof Media Pack: £1,990
HK audio: £600
Driver Comfort Pack: £385
Total: £38,675
And just for good measure (and an extra kicking on the price front), the GTI 5dr DSG:
OTR: £27,915
Metallic paint: £525
Performance Pack: £980
Heated leather seats: £1,695
Memory seats: £n/a
Folding mirrors: £standard
High-beam assist: £140
Panoramic Sunroof: £910
Discover Pro Nav: £1,725
DynAudio: £525
Total: £34,415
Merc still looks pretty darned expensive to me regardless of whether you would feel the need to add an LSD and an engine tune to either the M135i or Golf (and BTW since Autocar timed an M135i to 60 in just 4.6 secs, I'd suggest it really doesn't need tuning). And that was without any of the fancy stuff (bigger alloys, bodykit etc) required to distinguish your A45 from an A200 "Engineered by AMG". Might be bespoke. Doesn't look it. To get the "bespoke" look, you need to add 19" alloys (£615), and as you suggested either the AMG Aerodynamics Kit (£1,530) or AMG Bodystyling with carbon (£2,550), which has you rapidly heading towards £48k and beyond…
Just thinking, the A45 is producing more power and is faster, but it has such a high specific output there can't be as much scope for a remap like with the BMW, ok, some don't like messing but the Merc makes 355 bhp from 2 litres and four cylinders, the BMW 300 ish from 3 litres, so perhaps the power difference isn't an issue, 500 quid gets you the same power.
J4CKO said:
Just thinking, the A45 is producing more power and is faster, but it has such a high specific output there can't be as much scope for a remap like with the BMW, ok, some don't like messing but the Merc makes 355 bhp from 2 litres and four cylinders, the BMW 300 ish from 3 litres, so perhaps the power difference isn't an issue, 500 quid gets you the same power.
. There is still more to come from the handbuilt M133 engine,there is Black Series on the horizon.In fact,the "chocolate" N55 is less tunable,Alpina makes 410 hp out of it by replacing the turbo with a twin turbo setup and upgrading the internals.Not cheap,i guess!The highly acclaimed 1M made only 335 hp from the High Power version of the twin turbo N54 and that car cost more than the A45,but it was limited.To put it simply,the new M3 engine aside,BMW has been churning cheaply made petrol sixes and the cars has shined despite the inferior powerplants(for reference,check the latest VAG and Merc V6s).And the Merc engine has better MPG and CO2 ratings in a heavier car,it's simply incredible.
Edited by mainaman on Wednesday 30th October 01:17
Edited by mainaman on Wednesday 30th October 03:27
mainaman said:
There is still more to come from the handbuilt M133 engine,there is Black Series on the horizon.In fact,the "chocolate" N55 is less tunable,Alpina makes 410 hp out of it by replacing the turbo with a twin turbo setup and upgrading the internals.Not cheap,i guess!The highly acclaimed 1M made only 335 hp from the High Power version of the twin turbo N54 and that car cost more than the A45,but it was limited.To put it simply,the new M3 engine aside,BMW has been churning cheaply made petrol sixes and the cars has shined despite the inferior powerplants(for reference,check the latest VAG and Merc V6s).And the Merc engine has better MPG and CO2 ratings in a heavier car,it's simply incredible.
mainaman said:
There is still more to come from the handbuilt M133 engine,there is Black Series on the horizon.In fact,the "chocolate" N55 is less tunable,Alpina makes 410 hp out of it by replacing the turbo with a twin turbo setup and upgrading the internals.Not cheap,i guess!The highly acclaimed 1M made only 335 hp from the High Power version of the twin turbo N54 and that car cost more than the A45,but it was limited.To put it simply,the new M3 engine aside,BMW has been churning cheaply made petrol sixes and the cars has shined despite the inferior powerplants(for reference,check the latest VAG and Merc V6s).And the Merc engine has better MPG and CO2 ratings in a heavier car,it's simply incredible.
Edited by mainaman on Wednesday 30th October 01:17
Edited by mainaman on Wednesday 30th October 03:27
greygoose said:
The BMW N54 won the International Engine of the Year award in 2007 and 2008, it isn't quite as old and inferior as you seem to think.
And that's the issue,we are in 2013 and the N54 is not the best anymore.In fact the newer N55 is reported to be smoother,but less tunable,with a single twin scroll turbo,more boost and without N54 's forged crankshaft!HarryW said:
Marts1234 said:
First post, so please be gentle.
I had a test drive in an A45 last weekend. I think it's a fine car it goes, stops and turns loverly.
Maybe it's poor driving style, but I use engine braking when I want to slow a car a little bit. In the A45, there is a much more deceleration from engine braking than any other car I've driven. It's possible the car had changed down a gear, I didn't check. At this point of the test drive, I was in 'comfort' seeing if the car was suitable for 'family' use.
Perhaps I should either be accelerating or decelerating with my hair on fire and not just coasting along like an old man.
Has anyone else noticed this? Or is it as expected?
Not driven the A45 but what you are 'feeling' maybe a light flywheel. My Cerb has a very light one and goes up and dfown teh revs like a bike, and it can also be felt pottering on a light throtle, almost jerky, no inertial in the flywheel mass to smooth it out, apparently.I had a test drive in an A45 last weekend. I think it's a fine car it goes, stops and turns loverly.
Maybe it's poor driving style, but I use engine braking when I want to slow a car a little bit. In the A45, there is a much more deceleration from engine braking than any other car I've driven. It's possible the car had changed down a gear, I didn't check. At this point of the test drive, I was in 'comfort' seeing if the car was suitable for 'family' use.
Perhaps I should either be accelerating or decelerating with my hair on fire and not just coasting along like an old man.
Has anyone else noticed this? Or is it as expected?
nickfrog said:
What are you on about ?
Check out the NA 3.5 V6 from MB,the supercharged V6 and the turbo I5 from VAG and the upcoming 1.6 turbo four in the RCZ R and the 2.3 turbo four in the Focus RS and the next Mustang.And the M133 in the A45,of course.All of them have better combination of power,economy and engine displacement than the N55 and can be found in sub 40k cars .General Zod said:
How come the chocolate label? You seem to really hate the engine! Is the 1.4 in your Seat the benchmark?
From a quick scroll trough the beemer forums.The rumour is that BMW has made the N55 less tunable on purpose,because of warranty fears or simply cost savings.The twincharger has actually been the benchmark in its class since its inception and has won numerous awards.The VAG group are phasing it out due to cost concerns,its replacement is even more economical,but only 140 bhp.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff