RE: VW Golf GTI vs BMW M135i vs Mercedes A45 AMG
Discussion
kambites said:
For some people, power is not a major factor in how much a car is worth. If you really don't understand that, I'd imagine a lot of cars don't make much sense to you. 
Of course I understand its not ALL about power.However, when I drove the GT86 I felt it was holding onto gears that little bit too long. It handled fantastically, but the power issue would bug me and I fear it would ruin the overall experience of ownership.
It would be fine if the GT86's deficit was sub 50bhp. But 130bhp+ really does change things. As does the the ZF 8 speed box and the option of an LSD now.
I'd be struggling to justify choosing a GT86 over an M135i, considering they are nigh exactly the same amounts of money.
Plus the M135i is more practical.
V8A*ndy said:
How come it's a lot cheaper in other markets around the world and I'm making a direct comparison with spun off platforms In those markets which are also a lot cheaper.
It's a GB thing. Even the motoring press expected 4-5k less.
You need to take a look at a lot of other cars for sale in others countries. In US they think they pay a lot for European cars, most cars are cheaper there compared to the UK but... Up in Canada they DO pay a lot more than the US for the same car.It's a GB thing. Even the motoring press expected 4-5k less.
Talk to someone in Scandinavia, you be stunned at what they have to fork out for a car.
As for the press expecting a particular price, since when have the press decided have much a manufacturer is going to charge for a car?
<b>"Comprehensively hammering the final nail into the Japanese rally rep coffin, meanwhile, is new arrival to this party, AMG. 180hp per litre from a 2.0-litre four would have been for the committed just a few years back but now comes with a Mercedes badge on the front, four driven wheels, a hatchback body and more youthful swagger than we've ever seen before."</b>.
All three are lovely cars, and I'd happily drive any one of them, but come on, it's 2013. Mitsubishi and Subaru were making cars just as quick almost 15 years ago. I would hope that "final nail" isn't anything to do with power outputs and/or handling capabilities.
I'd still have an Evo IX or X FQ360, or maybe a classic Impreza 22B thank you!
All three are lovely cars, and I'd happily drive any one of them, but come on, it's 2013. Mitsubishi and Subaru were making cars just as quick almost 15 years ago. I would hope that "final nail" isn't anything to do with power outputs and/or handling capabilities.
I'd still have an Evo IX or X FQ360, or maybe a classic Impreza 22B thank you!
ChrisG99 said:
Mitsubishi and Subaru were making cars just as quick almost 15 years ago. I would hope that "final nail" isn't anything to do with power outputs and/or handling capabilities.
Both where/are in the ultimate forms modified to achieve the power outputs, admittedly the UK importer did the modifications. In the case of Mitsubishi Evo X the factory power was 300PS with 330/360/400 versions being tuned upon import. Impreza's where either prodrive or cosworth tuned upon import the lower power versions going down the SVA route and higher powered as "post registration modifications" (i.e. unapproved). Try and get a UK Evo or Impreza re-registered in say Germany to understand how modified from approved they are/where. Evo's never actually went through whole EU vehicle type approval in 330/360/400 trim and the FQ-300 was approved via UK SVA much like a caterham.
Moving the game is on is doing this on full factory backed, type approved vehicle. Most of the current 4-pot 2ltr turbo lumps can be aftermarket tuned to 300+ hp with ease and have been like this for many years.
The idea is not to see which one is the best car, it's to see which is the best car for *you*.
For some people they'd like to read a obj/subjective review of 3 'similar' cars to ascertain whether they should spend £10k more or less than they budgeted.
Just read the article and enjoy it.
As for those wondering what justifies £26+ for a GT86, consider how long they had to spend testing, fabricating custom parts, crash testing it and then maintaining them. Their sales numbers are expectedly low and for anything low volume, expect to pay more.
For some people they'd like to read a obj/subjective review of 3 'similar' cars to ascertain whether they should spend £10k more or less than they budgeted.
Just read the article and enjoy it.
As for those wondering what justifies £26+ for a GT86, consider how long they had to spend testing, fabricating custom parts, crash testing it and then maintaining them. Their sales numbers are expectedly low and for anything low volume, expect to pay more.
b0rk said:
ChrisG99 said:
Mitsubishi and Subaru were making cars just as quick almost 15 years ago. I would hope that "final nail" isn't anything to do with power outputs and/or handling capabilities.
Both where/are in the ultimate forms modified to achieve the power outputs, admittedly the UK importer did the modifications. In the case of Mitsubishi Evo X the factory power was 300PS with 330/360/400 versions being tuned upon import. Impreza's where either prodrive or cosworth tuned upon import the lower power versions going down the SVA route and higher powered as "post registration modifications" (i.e. unapproved). Try and get a UK Evo or Impreza re-registered in say Germany to understand how modified from approved they are/where. Evo's never actually went through whole EU vehicle type approval in 330/360/400 trim and the FQ-300 was approved via UK SVA much like a caterham.
Moving the game is on is doing this on full factory backed, type approved vehicle. Most of the current 4-pot 2ltr turbo lumps can be aftermarket tuned to 300+ hp with ease and have been like this for many years.
You can buy a brand new 370z, Naturally aspirated, 328bhp, RWD, factory fitted LSD, jap reliability, bespoke styling, 0-100mph 11.8.
All for a non discounted price of £27k.
I told Dan that with all the M135i stuff that's been flying around recently, surely the most evenly matched bar the seating situation was the 370z. Crazy that it wasn't part of the tests.
The Germans still have some catching up to do unless you class shoving a turbo on the engine and piping noise into the cabin innovation.
The only thing they have one over is the fact they have 4 seats (which I don't need) and better economy due to using a turbo.
The more I read about the A45 the more tempted I become. I've specced "my" car 3 times now, coming out at a snip over £40k. The main sticking point for me right now is that I own both of my cars outright and would need to take some finance to swap my Cayenne Turbo for one of these. I've avoided my local Merc dealer for the last few months because I can't see how I'd leave without placing an order.
elementad said:
b0rk said:
ChrisG99 said:
Mitsubishi and Subaru were making cars just as quick almost 15 years ago. I would hope that "final nail" isn't anything to do with power outputs and/or handling capabilities.
Both where/are in the ultimate forms modified to achieve the power outputs, admittedly the UK importer did the modifications. In the case of Mitsubishi Evo X the factory power was 300PS with 330/360/400 versions being tuned upon import. Impreza's where either prodrive or cosworth tuned upon import the lower power versions going down the SVA route and higher powered as "post registration modifications" (i.e. unapproved). Try and get a UK Evo or Impreza re-registered in say Germany to understand how modified from approved they are/where. Evo's never actually went through whole EU vehicle type approval in 330/360/400 trim and the FQ-300 was approved via UK SVA much like a caterham.
Moving the game is on is doing this on full factory backed, type approved vehicle. Most of the current 4-pot 2ltr turbo lumps can be aftermarket tuned to 300+ hp with ease and have been like this for many years.
You can buy a brand new 370z, Naturally aspirated, 328bhp, RWD, factory fitted LSD, jap reliability, bespoke styling, 0-100mph 11.8.
All for a non discounted price of £27k.
I told Dan that with all the M135i stuff that's been flying around recently, surely the most evenly matched bar the seating situation was the 370z. Crazy that it wasn't part of the tests.
The Germans still have some catching up to do unless you class shoving a turbo on the engine and piping noise into the cabin innovation.
The only thing they have one over is the fact they have 4 seats (which I don't need) and better economy due to using a turbo.
J4CKO said:
elementad said:
b0rk said:
ChrisG99 said:
Mitsubishi and Subaru were making cars just as quick almost 15 years ago. I would hope that "final nail" isn't anything to do with power outputs and/or handling capabilities.
Both where/are in the ultimate forms modified to achieve the power outputs, admittedly the UK importer did the modifications. In the case of Mitsubishi Evo X the factory power was 300PS with 330/360/400 versions being tuned upon import. Impreza's where either prodrive or cosworth tuned upon import the lower power versions going down the SVA route and higher powered as "post registration modifications" (i.e. unapproved). Try and get a UK Evo or Impreza re-registered in say Germany to understand how modified from approved they are/where. Evo's never actually went through whole EU vehicle type approval in 330/360/400 trim and the FQ-300 was approved via UK SVA much like a caterham.
Moving the game is on is doing this on full factory backed, type approved vehicle. Most of the current 4-pot 2ltr turbo lumps can be aftermarket tuned to 300+ hp with ease and have been like this for many years.
You can buy a brand new 370z, Naturally aspirated, 328bhp, RWD, factory fitted LSD, jap reliability, bespoke styling, 0-100mph 11.8.
All for a non discounted price of £27k.
I told Dan that with all the M135i stuff that's been flying around recently, surely the most evenly matched bar the seating situation was the 370z. Crazy that it wasn't part of the tests.
The Germans still have some catching up to do unless you class shoving a turbo on the engine and piping noise into the cabin innovation.
The only thing they have one over is the fact they have 4 seats (which I don't need) and better economy due to using a turbo.
Residuals are nothing but hearsay (and incorrect at that).
Take any year for year, mileage for mileage example of M3s or whatever you like against the 350 or 370 and you'll see the nissans have depreciated same or even less.
I've discussed this to great lengths many a time as a few on here will know.
Stop slating the A45 as too expensive and implying that the Beemer is a bargain.It is the other way around.To get the M135 close to what a "basic " A45 offers you need to add the autobox and the LSD ,to retrofit M3's front seats and at least Stage 1 engine upgrade.So a 30k car becomes 37k car that is still less bespoke than the factory spec Merc, which can be specified with an optional bodykit that is not available on any other A class.
HighwayStar said:
You need to take a look at a lot of other cars for sale in others countries. In US they think they pay a lot for European cars, most cars are cheaper there compared to the UK but... Up in Canada they DO pay a lot more than the US for the same car.
Talk to someone in Scandinavia, you be stunned at what they have to fork out for a car.
This. You guys in the UK have it so good. In Sweden a sensibly specced M135i is about £48k. In Norway, well I hope you are sitting down... Talk to someone in Scandinavia, you be stunned at what they have to fork out for a car.
Yep, that's about £87500 :-)
mainaman said:
Stop slating the A45 as too expensive and implying that the Beemer is a bargain.It is the other way around.To get the M135 close to what a "basic " A45 offers you need to add the autobox and the LSD ,to retrofit M3's front seats and at least Stage 1 engine upgrade.So a 30k car becomes 37k car that is still less bespoke than the factory spec Merc, which can be specified with an optional bodykit that is not available on any other A class.
I suppose the only way to compare them fairly is to look at the average price paid by actual buyers... which is rather hard to find out. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff