XKR v C63 v M3 v 997

[vinnie83]

The average age of a Ferrari owner must be in the late 40's to early 50's surely?

The average age of a 911 owner IIRC is mid 40's.

This is simply due to the fact that most people who are going to accrue wealth have done so by that age and buy cars accordingly.

Besides, that link you posted up has a majority of non-XK cars - the mid size and executive saloons. Even the majority of E & S class cars are going to be owned by older clientele - especially the AMG cars.

I can't deny that Jaguar as a brand has a more mature image, but the XK is not an old mans car. IMO

[steve singh]

Guys, you're as bad as me when it comes to being defensive about something you like !!!

Relax, they are a nice motor - not my cup of tea but I can definately see the appeal.

Chim, i love your belittling comments

[yellowtang]

Sat in traffic in Bath a few weeks back and a couple of teenage lads shouted across at me "nice car mate!". I gave them a wave before pulling away rather enthusiastically. A glance in my mirrors showed them giving me the thumbs up (yes it was thumbs!)

I only ever get really positive comments from kids and teenagers - it seems only older people have silly outdated views about Jaguar!

For me the XKR 5.0 offers a unrivalled power, noise, equipment, asthetics and value for money package.

I was 28 when I purchased my 4.2 XKR and 34 when I got the 5.0 XKR.

[toppstuff]

steve singh said:

Guys, you're as bad as me when it comes to being defensive about something you like !!!

Relax, they are a nice motor - not my cup of tea but I can definately see the appeal.

Chim, i love your belittling comments

You stereotypes about Jaguar drivers are no better than Clarkson's stereotypes about M3 owners. Or Audi drivers, come to that. This is not a good thing to be compared with.

Disappointing.

[steve singh]

toppstuff said:

steve singh said:

Guys, you're as bad as me when it comes to being defensive about something you like !!!

Relax, they are a nice motor - not my cup of tea but I can definately see the appeal.

Chim, i love your belittling comments

You stereotypes about Jaguar drivers are no better than Clarkson's stereotypes about M3 owners. Or Audi drivers, come to that. This is not a good thing to be compared with.

Disappointing.

Sorry Dad

[Emubiker]

vinnie83 said:

Emubiker said:

vinnie83 said:

I had the 5.0 XKR with sports kit pegged as my potential next car, but the same engine in the F-type has now made me question it.

I think the look and sound of the car is fantastic, and I miss the power delivery of my old supercharged E55 AMG and would imagine this would be similar.

Jags do certainly have an older, more mature image, but certainly not 'old man' anymore. I don't think many 20 somethings would fail to be impressed with the look, sound and performance of an XKR!

I bought a 4.2 56 plate xkr this time last year, have done 11,000 miles in it. Mainly across scottish B roads, and absolutley love it. Its great on bumpy roads, will cruise at silly speeds without a sweat and has the brakes to stop if from said sill speed when required.
The sound is brilliant - Quiet when at low rpm but with a sly burble when ticking over, then as the revs rise over about 2.5k the burble becomes a growl and higher up the rev range the growl becomes a roar.
I had weighed up many other options both higher and lower in the price range and still think it was the Best car any 23 year old could buy for the money.

So settle the argument for us. You're 23 and have an XKR - I'm guessing your friends are mainly in their 20s also?

Do they feel you chose an old mans car, or do they like it?

They all love it. Except one, who thinks its an old mans car cos his uncle has a jag.....he then bought a volvo c30, so go figure. But among my group of petrol head friends, of whom have a Twingo RS, Silvia s13, a cayman and a couple of EVOs, they all think it is great. Looks good, sound brilliant and is at home either blasting down the road or pootling through town. As such it has been nicknamed "Dorian" after Dorian Gray for his civil and evil side.

[toppstuff]

steve singh said:

toppstuff said:

steve singh said:

Guys, you're as bad as me when it comes to being defensive about something you like !!!

Relax, they are a nice motor - not my cup of tea but I can definately see the appeal.

Chim, i love your belittling comments

You stereotypes about Jaguar drivers are no better than Clarkson's stereotypes about M3 owners. Or Audi drivers, come to that. This is not a good thing to be compared with.

Disappointing.

Sorry Dad

Good, now go and stand in the corner for a while and think about your behaviour. What would your mother think?

[Wills2]

goldblum said:

steve singh said:

So both mags have the m3 as a superior car?

No. Or yes. In The Caranddriver report the M car wins because it's cheaper, not superior.

steve singh said:

Sorry just to clarify were you trying to reinforce my point or have a different angle?

Neither really, my point was more about the EVO style of writing. I prefer less obsequious roadtest reports. Incidentally the caranddriver review didn't really make the BMW the superior car in terms of driving enjoyment, the MB lost the clash by one point because it cost more to buy than the BMW. But it seemed a more objective kind of journalism.

Edited by goldblum on Saturday 2nd November 21:40

No, the car and driver report says the car wins end of, nothing to do with cost they are within a few k of each other anyway.

They also say this:

car and driver said:

There’s a major philosophical difference between the M3 and C63 that is best illustrated by their roofs. To save weight and lower the center of gravity, the M3 has a carbon-fiber roof panel. Every C63 coupe has a giant glass sunroof that adds weight up high. The M3 is more than 400 pounds lighter and has a 1.5-inch-lower center of gravity—two reasons the BMW enjoys livelier handling than the C63. Directional changes happen faster and more lucidly while the tires give up grip more progressively, making the M3 easier to gather back up. From the manual gearbox to the higher-revving engine, the M3 is the more involving car.

When you’re not pushing it, the M3 isn’t noisy, nervous, or harsh, but when you are, it wakes up and provides sports-car levels of sensitivity and feedback. It is a car that imparts an astounding sense of control throughout its operating range. The M3 didn’t win solely based on our subjective assessment, though. Our Competition-package-equipped M3 also scored major points for its superior skidpad grip, 70-to-0 braking performance, and slalom speed. Those points, along with the subjective-handling victory, gave it the tiniest of edges over the Benz. So the M3 remains on top.

And the M3 was up against the PPP C63 so it appears that the gutless little 4.0V8 still seems to win no matter how many ponies Merc through at their narrow hipped c-class. (Just whose decision was it to put the flared arches on the front rather than the back?)

For those who wish to read the report rather than Goldblum's rather twisted description follow this link:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2012-bmw-m...

I like the c63 but some of the owners live in a dream world.

[steve singh]

^ Nice!

I have to say everyday i drive the m3 the more i love it!

[Wills2]

steve singh said:

^ Nice!

I have to say everyday i drive the m3 the more i love it!

Thought you needed a bit of support! I now await the backlash from the fanboys...

As nice as the c63 is some of the daft comments you read day in day out regarding it vs the M3 fly in the face of reality.

Oh the OP needs to get a 997!

[8bit]

toasty said:

Thanks 8bit, I saw your Reader's Cars thread and it just increased the want factor for an XKR.

Thanks

kambites said:

Who said a GT car can't be fun to throw down a B-road?

Nobody, but to my understanding a "pure GT car" isn't designed for the purpose. I was merely pointing out that the XKR (and I concede the clarification someone else raised about this applying to the aluminium-body X150 generation rather than the previous steel-body X100 model) has more sporting capabilities than to accurately label it as a pure GT car, that was all.

steve singh said:

But what does the xkr offer over a m3?

Worse fuel economy, laughable rear seats, poorer quality based on reviews and a 5.0 engine that gives out less power than a 4.0 v8 by some degree until they put a supercharger on it ?

With all due respect I think you're doing this wrong. You can't measure the two on paper. Well, you can, but you're better off doing it from the driving seats. I lusted after E9x M3s for ages but the XKR won it for because it started life as a sport/tourer coupe, not a mainstream compact coupe/saloon with some (admittedly extensive and substantial) upgrades. Same went for the B7 RS4.

As for stereotypes, well all cars (or at least marques) end up with some negative stereotype attached to them...

@ the OP - Bottom line, stop reading this thread and go sort out some test drives.

[cerb4.5lee]

Wills2 said:

Oh the OP needs to get a 997!

This!

I personally wouldn't even consider the M3 you will only be disappointed imo.

[goldblum]

Wills2 said:

For those who wish to read the report rather than Goldblum's rather twisted description follow this link:
I like the c63 but some of the owners live in a dream world.

Not really sure what you're on about, but here's a bit more from the C+D piece: 'We love them both for different reasons'. Nice to have some balance.
BTW I don't own a C63. So - again - not really sure what you're on about. But then I suspect neither are you.

[sjc]

OP, you're going to spend all day in traffic according to your post.
Spend 1200 quid on this, lovely place to sit, loads of toys, no depreciating to do ( and see what Tiff thinks of my very own one that he drives on next Mondays Fifth Gear program).
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/r...

And spend the remaining 24 grand on something special like...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/n...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...

[jamieduff1981]

8bit said:

toasty said:

Thanks 8bit, I saw your Reader's Cars thread and it just increased the want factor for an XKR.

Thanks

kambites said:

Who said a GT car can't be fun to throw down a B-road?

Nobody, but to my understanding a "pure GT car" isn't designed for the purpose. I was merely pointing out that the XKR (and I concede the clarification someone else raised about this applying to the aluminium-body X150 generation rather than the previous steel-body X100 model) has more sporting capabilities than to accurately label it as a pure GT car, that was all.

steve singh said:

But what does the xkr offer over a m3?

Worse fuel economy, laughable rear seats, poorer quality based on reviews and a 5.0 engine that gives out less power than a 4.0 v8 by some degree until they put a supercharger on it ?

With all due respect I think you're doing this wrong. You can't measure the two on paper. Well, you can, but you're better off doing it from the driving seats. I lusted after E9x M3s for ages but the XKR won it for because it started life as a sport/tourer coupe, not a mainstream compact coupe/saloon with some (admittedly extensive and substantial) upgrades. Same went for the B7 RS4.

As for stereotypes, well all cars (or at least marques) end up with some negative stereotype attached to them...

@ the OP - Bottom line, stop reading this thread and go sort out some test drives.

Even the 5.0 V8 is better than a desk exercise will suggest. It's down on peak BHP compared to the BMW engine, but it's a more wholesome delivery with a nice fat torque curve. It suits effortless driving better than spirited driving, but in the XK that's what it's all about. The supercharged version has a very different character. It's pretty brutal in it's delivery pretty much anywhere in the RPM range.

[toasty]

sjc said:

OP, you're going to spend all day in traffic according to your post.
Spend 1200 quid on this, lovely place to sit, loads of toys, no depreciating to do ( and see what Tiff thinks of my very own one that he drives on next Mondays Fifth Gear program).
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/r...

And spend the remaining 24 grand on something special like...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/n...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...

Tempting but I know I'd end up driving the weekend car to work and the other would just rot outside my house. I leave home early to avoid most of the traffic and sometimes leave work before the rush hours start (not last night and spent 2 3/4 hours in traffic ). I really would like an all rounder rather than a snotter and a weekend toy, especially as it's easier to justify to the OH.

[sjc]

toasty said:

sjc said:

OP, you're going to spend all day in traffic according to your post.
Spend 1200 quid on this, lovely place to sit, loads of toys, no depreciating to do ( and see what Tiff thinks of my very own one that he drives on next Mondays Fifth Gear program).
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/r...

And spend the remaining 24 grand on something special like...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/n...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/c...

Tempting but I know I'd end up driving the weekend car to work and the other would just rot outside my house. I leave home early to avoid most of the traffic and sometimes leave work before the rush hours start (not last night and spent 2 3/4 hours in traffic ). I really would like an all rounder rather than a snotter and a weekend toy, especially as it's easier to justify to the OH.

Thing is, that 75 isn't a snotter at all, (just because you'll bag it for 1200 quid, doesn't make it one). As I said above, watch Fifth Gear on Monday ( Discovery 8pm), they're doing beer token alternatives to the new Bentley Spur, and my very own car is one of the alternatives!And yes you will use the special toy for work from time to time,and it becomes a treat. Or sit in something that depreciates by the hour, doing 15mpg in a traffic jam, that doesn't feel special because you use it every day, and is based on a generic saloon? It's a fifty-fifty call, but a route I've taken for years that's worked for me.

[macky17]

sjc said:

Or sit in something that depreciates by the hour, doing 15mpg in a traffic jam, that doesn't feel special because you use it every day, and is based on a generic saloon? It's a fifty-fifty call, but a route I've taken for years that's worked for me.

This.

A usable daily driver is going to be utterly compromised - how could it be otherwise? In comparing an M3 to a C63 you are discussing 2 cars which are designed to do shopping runs, sit in traffic, carry 4/5 people as well as to be fast(ish) and fun(ish). Something has to give. If you have no space for 2 cars then fair enough - if you have and can afford to then for heaven's sake buy a cheap diesel mile muncher (Rover 75 if you like) and something genuinely fun for those occasions when 4 doors/a boot/1500+kg are just going to be excess baggage (Nobel, Caterham, TVR, etc.)

BUT if you really must buy something on that list, the 997 is the one. XKR fast but too linear in its power delivery and the others just dull (sorry). I'm not sure £25k is going to be enough for a good one however, especially once you've paid for that OPC warranty (don't even consider one otherwise).

Edited by macky17 on Tuesday 5th November 14:49

[steve singh]

macky17 said:

sjc said:

Or sit in something that depreciates by the hour, doing 15mpg in a traffic jam, that doesn't feel special because you use it every day, and is based on a generic saloon? It's a fifty-fifty call, but a route I've taken for years that's worked for me.

This.

A usable daily driver is going to be utterly compromised - how could it be otherwise? In comparing an M3 to a C63 you are discussing 2 cars which are designed to do shopping runs, sit in traffic, carry 4/5 people as well as to be fast(ish) and fun(ish). Something has to give. If you have no space for 2 cars then fair enough - if you have and can afford to then for heaven's sake buy a cheap diesel mile muncher (Rover 75 if you like) and something genuinely fun for those occasions when 4 doors/a boot/1500+kg are just going to be excess baggage (Nobel, Caterham, TVR, etc.)

BUT if you really must buy something on that list, the 997 is the one. XKR fast but too linear in its power delivery and the others just dull (sorry). I'm not sure £25k is going to be enough for a good one however, especially once you've paid for that OPC warranty (don't even consider one otherwise).

Edited by macky17 on Tuesday 5th November 14:49

Behave - only in the extreme corners of pistonheads can someone say the M3 and C63 are cars designed for shopping runs - not everyone is Lewis Hamilton and want to sit in car that is completely uncompromising and back breaking on anything but the most rarest and smoothest roads !

[macky17]

steve singh said:

Behave - only in the extreme corners of pistonheads can someone say the M3 and C63 are cars designed for shopping runs - not everyone is Lewis Hamilton and want to sit in car that is completely uncompromising and back breaking on anything but the most rarest and smoothest roads !

I'm guessing you haven't driven many Nobels, Caterhams or TVRs. In any case, the whole point of 2 cars is that you can pick and choose your roads/journeys and play to the 2nd car's strengths.