Electric Car Repairs/Maintenance ?
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
Technomatt said:
Well, if you have posted that data up as some form of positive battery sales pitch... do tell all 
Such a silly lad. You can't even see the woods for the trees. Such is the way of the believer. Why does everything that I post have to favour EVs? If you weren't so blind you would see that I regularly discuss the failings. But you are too busy making stuff up and pushing your agenda to actually have anything constructive to put forward. For a minute there I thought your usual drop into condescending comments was a counter argument on Leaf battery life.
Butter Face said:
Technomatt said:
Butter Face said:
Technomatt said:
Butter Face said:
Ok, Renault GUARANTEE it will be worth that (if you have it on a PCP agreement)
If it's worth less, you walk away. Amazing right?
You're correct in the servicing, does it make it more or less trivial than ICE servicing?
Remind us what the Renault Zoe battery leasing cost is again..... £85 per month on a 3 year contract. If it's worth less, you walk away. Amazing right?
You're correct in the servicing, does it make it more or less trivial than ICE servicing?
That's a lot of (equivalent) servicing. Not so amazing, right?
The servicing is FOC on EV and ICE vehicles from Renault.
It's also a lot of money to pay for a car that only does a realistic 70 miles in winter.
But there's also people who spend £0000's upon £0000's on two seaters that they can't get their MIL in th back of. Horses for courses right.
But of course you're right Matt. You always are.
Technomatt said:
Glad we agree then.
For a minute there I thought your usual drop into condescending comments was a counter argument on Leaf battery life.
Except that the known issue appears to be linked to regional temperatures. Not per se an issue for Blighty. For a minute there I thought your usual drop into condescending comments was a counter argument on Leaf battery life.
Battery conditions are the logical weak point of first gen EVs. Things like range anxiety, remote charging, temporary VED reductions, short term subsidies, daily mileage aren't.
DonkeyApple said:
Technomatt said:
Glad we agree then.
For a minute there I thought your usual drop into condescending comments was a counter argument on Leaf battery life.
Except that the known issue appears to be linked to regional temperatures. Not per se an issue for Blighty. For a minute there I thought your usual drop into condescending comments was a counter argument on Leaf battery life.
Battery conditions are the logical weak point of first gen EVs. Things like range anxiety, remote charging, temporary VED reductions, short term subsidies, daily mileage aren't.
Are you really saying with this post that range anxiety, remote charging and daily mileage concerns are not logical weak points? Those issues are huge, apply to current gen EVs and stifle potential sales. Strange.
Technomatt said:
Are you really saying with this post that range anxiety, remote charging and daily mileage concerns are not logical weak points? Those issues are huge, apply to current gen EVs and stifle potential sales. Strange.
In saying exactly that as I don't believe people who need to travel greater distances than the daily range more than once in a blue moon will buy an EV. I don't think the product is remotely appropriate for that and I don't believe they will change basic culture of convenience. The reality is that there is a very sizeable % of urban/suburban cars that only ever travel a few miles a day and that this is the only real area where EVs will be competitive but it is a very big niche to tap into. Arguably the largest single niche in the affluent UK.
And in this logical sector an EV has real conveniences over the comparable little diesel or petrol. It is quieter, less smelly, has fewer working parts to maintain, won't be harmed by lots of short crappy journeys and has a wall of torque that is entertaining. This is why the rel driver will be price. Prices are maintained currently via short term subsidies but these aren't set to last long so they will need to be price competitive on their own within a few years.
Technomatt said:
kambites said:
Technomatt said:
According to KBB, the 2013 Leaf will only retain 35 percent of its sticker price after three years.
About the same as a Micra then, which various different figures seem to put between 33 and 38%. Mind you that's a UK figure for the Micra, I've no idea how they do in the US; perhaps better?
ETA: Projections for the i3 seem to all be over 50%, which is on a par with other BMWs. I'd say there was no real difference between electric cars and petrol ones in terms of residuals.
Edited by kambites on Monday 4th November 19:07
An equivalent USA Nissan like the Versa only depreciates by about 50% over 3 years.
You gotta know your stuff.....
Residuals are a bit irrelevant in themselves anyway, since 90% of these things will be bought as company cars. Overall lease costs and BIK tax rates are what will make or break their success.
Edited by kambites on Monday 4th November 21:08
DonkeyApple said:
Technomatt said:
Are you really saying with this post that range anxiety, remote charging and daily mileage concerns are not logical weak points? Those issues are huge, apply to current gen EVs and stifle potential sales. Strange.
In saying exactly that as I don't believe people who need to travel greater distances than the daily range more than once in a blue moon will buy an EV. I don't think the product is remotely appropriate for that and I don't believe they will change basic culture of convenience. The reality is that there is a very sizeable % of urban/suburban cars that only ever travel a few miles a day and that this is the only real area where EVs will be competitive but it is a very big niche to tap into. Arguably the largest single niche in the affluent UK.
And in this logical sector an EV has real conveniences over the comparable little diesel or petrol. It is quieter, less smelly, has fewer working parts to maintain, won't be harmed by lots of short crappy journeys and has a wall of torque that is entertaining. This is why the rel driver will be price. Prices are maintained currently via short term subsidies but these aren't set to last long so they will need to be price competitive on their own within a few years.
Regarding the affluent niche potential. You have to provide me with figures, numbes not broad generalisations or personal predictions. I don’t think it will ever be realised.
The EV is not desirable enough, apart from a fashion statement, to be attractive enough to generate significant sales. A hybrid might. Even the i3 is currently drawing 8 out of 10 towards the RE (hybrid) version.
I also popped in a bit of your own condescending type content, to show I can occasionally engage at all levels
c2mike said:
36,000 miles on my Leaf. No signs of battery degradation. Also, car drives exactly like new...fewer wearing components in the drive-train.
That must be one of the higher mileage Leafs around. It'll be interesting to see how it is in another two or three years time if you keep it. kambites said:
c2mike said:
36,000 miles on my Leaf. No signs of battery degradation. Also, car drives exactly like new...fewer wearing components in the drive-train.
That must be one of the higher mileage Leafs around. It'll be interesting to see how it is in another two or three years time if you keep it. To date I am only aware of battery degradation in very hot climates like Arizona (well over 40C), and Nissan have a fix for that:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1086498_nissan...
Fully temp controlled batteries are an alternative approach, but do require electricity...not so good when your car is parked and not plugged in.
Technomatt said:
So lad, what you were originally really saying was: for someone that want's one it's a valid choice. Can't argue with that.
Regarding the affluent niche potential. You have to provide me with figures, numbes not broad generalisations or personal predictions. I don’t think it will ever be realised.
The EV is not desirable enough, apart from a fashion statement, to be attractive enough to generate significant sales. A hybrid might. Even the i3 is currently drawing 8 out of 10 towards the RE (hybrid) version.
I also popped in a bit of your own condescending type content, to show I can occasionally engage at all levels
Affluent niche isn't potential. It's proven. It's not poor people currently buying WVs but those with excess fiscal capacity. I don't see this changing until the product is specifically cheaper than its comparable conventional vehicle. Regarding the affluent niche potential. You have to provide me with figures, numbes not broad generalisations or personal predictions. I don’t think it will ever be realised.
The EV is not desirable enough, apart from a fashion statement, to be attractive enough to generate significant sales. A hybrid might. Even the i3 is currently drawing 8 out of 10 towards the RE (hybrid) version.
I also popped in a bit of your own condescending type content, to show I can occasionally engage at all levels
Not overly concerned by most i3s at this stage being RE. I would be three years down the line. At present the early adopters are worried about range but many will begin to appreciate that their daily usage never comes close to needing the RE.
Condescending doesn't bother me. I work in the City. It's the personal hyperbole made out to be facts that is being called out.
DonkeyApple said:
Affluent niche isn't potential. It's proven. It's not poor people currently buying WVs but those with excess fiscal capacity. I don't see this changing until the product is specifically cheaper than its comparable conventional vehicle.
Not overly concerned by most i3s at this stage being RE. I would be three years down the line. At present the early adopters are worried about range but many will begin to appreciate that their daily usage never comes close to needing the RE.
Condescending doesn't bother me. I work in the City. It's the personal hyperbole made out to be facts that is being called out.
All my inputs are backed by factual data and provide a link to the current EV market, trends and developments.Not overly concerned by most i3s at this stage being RE. I would be three years down the line. At present the early adopters are worried about range but many will begin to appreciate that their daily usage never comes close to needing the RE.
Condescending doesn't bother me. I work in the City. It's the personal hyperbole made out to be facts that is being called out.
They also provide a valuable reality check and balance to any condescending London centric, hypothetical and purely speculative analysis.
Back on topic with some EV residuals:
Current Renault Twizy. £7000 new but also available secondhand right now from a dealer with 50 miles on the clock for £4000. A 43% drop or £80 per mile.
Current Renault Fluence. £17845 new (After £5000 Govt Grant. List £22845) but also available today, from a dealer, one year old for £8000 with 490 miles on the clock. A 55% annual drop or £20 per mile.
Current Renault Twizy. £7000 new but also available secondhand right now from a dealer with 50 miles on the clock for £4000. A 43% drop or £80 per mile.
Current Renault Fluence. £17845 new (After £5000 Govt Grant. List £22845) but also available today, from a dealer, one year old for £8000 with 490 miles on the clock. A 55% annual drop or £20 per mile.
Technomatt said:
Back on topic with some EV residuals:
Current Renault Twizy. £7000 new but also available secondhand right now from a dealer with 50 miles on the clock for £4000. A 43% drop or £80 per mile.
Current Renault Fluence. £17845 new (After £5000 Govt Grant. List £22845) but also available today, from a dealer, one year old for £8000 with 490 miles on the clock. A 55% annual drop or £20 per mile.
That isn't back on topic though. The topic is 'Electric Car Repairs/Maintenance'.Current Renault Twizy. £7000 new but also available secondhand right now from a dealer with 50 miles on the clock for £4000. A 43% drop or £80 per mile.
Current Renault Fluence. £17845 new (After £5000 Govt Grant. List £22845) but also available today, from a dealer, one year old for £8000 with 490 miles on the clock. A 55% annual drop or £20 per mile.
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