RE: Bentley: made in Germany
Discussion
There's a huge amount of building going on at Crewe at the moment- they are growing incredibly fast ahead if the SUV production imminently, but they just don't have the space or resources to produce to demand in the uk.
It's a case of either letting the brand suffer due to being unable to deliver, or take the next least worst option- ie build in Germany.
Much of the hand finishing will still be done in the uk, with parts shipped to Germany for final assembly.
It's a case of either letting the brand suffer due to being unable to deliver, or take the next least worst option- ie build in Germany.
Much of the hand finishing will still be done in the uk, with parts shipped to Germany for final assembly.
MRPULLHARD said:
this is why i dislike current bentleys - you dont know if its a vw or bentley , you are buying - same with rolls - rolls or fancy bmw. At least with a merc, bmw or jag you know you are buying a german / british vehicle.
there's no single source for any manufacturer anymore. i have a client who makes brake pistons in the UK- he sells them to a major tier one parts supplier into Europe, they then get shipped to China, assembled into the caliper etc, and then sent to factories around the world to be built into premium vehicles.
fewer and fewer parts are made by manufacturers- they are bought in from around the world according to price and quality (and for many manufacturers the quality standards of automotive are significantly higher than aeronautical- TS16949 is arguably a tougher quality standard the AS9100)
ArthurDaley said:
Remarkable that demand is so high - it's an absolute minger. Maybe they're just softening us up for that abomination of an SUV.
I've not see one of the new cars in the flesh but I have to say that the images I've seen on PH were somewhat startling. I thought I was looking at one of those comedy Chinese rip-offs initially. I don't like the idea of it. However, this is the odd one, if the story had been about certain models being built in India or China or the USA, I would not be so bothered.
I can see the economic sense behind building cars in the areas where they are sold, like asia or America.
Bentley in Germany? Oh no, we don't like that at all.
AER said:
New POD said:
Where is the BIG mini made again ? Where do JCB make the most diggers? Where do Rolls Royce Build some Jet Engines ?
Austria, India, and Singapore.
Welcome to GREAT GREAT British Brands.
Absolutely nothing wrong with building stuff near the markets they serve, provided the decision-making remains at and the profits return to the point of origin. Unfortunately, due to excessive taxation and regulation in the anglosphere, the former happens increasingly whilst the latter becomes less and less common.Austria, India, and Singapore.
Welcome to GREAT GREAT British Brands.
It seems the marketing/branding people are doing their bit and most people aren't bothered how and where its made.
I'm sitting here with my Carlsberg Export at the moment, brewed in the EU ! If I cared to google it I'll probably find that it's Newcastle. Like so many lagers now they all marked the same, masking the fact that it comes from one or two large brewing companies.
I'm sitting here with my Carlsberg Export at the moment, brewed in the EU ! If I cared to google it I'll probably find that it's Newcastle. Like so many lagers now they all marked the same, masking the fact that it comes from one or two large brewing companies.
AndrewO said:
...I'm sitting here with my Carlsberg Export at the moment, brewed in the EU ! If I cared to google it I'll probably find that it's Newcastle. Like so many lagers now they all marked the same, masking the fact that it comes from one or two large brewing companies.
That's why they all taste the same too 
"the synergy is optimal".
That says it all really. VAG seem to be obsessed with volume, and whilst that's understandable when pumping out Golfs, when it comes to Bentley, I can't understand why. Sure, Bentley needs to make money but it smacks of the scenario where Rolex start making battery powered watches for £1000 just to ensure everyone can have one.
There is of course a market for expensive cars, but if they're selling too many for Crewe to keep pace, then they clearly aren't expensive enough. The right crowd and no crowding etc.
A German built Bentley would be pointless - you may as well save a load of money and buy the most expensive S Class you can - it would probably be a better car anyway. However, these days it's all about the brand, innit.
That says it all really. VAG seem to be obsessed with volume, and whilst that's understandable when pumping out Golfs, when it comes to Bentley, I can't understand why. Sure, Bentley needs to make money but it smacks of the scenario where Rolex start making battery powered watches for £1000 just to ensure everyone can have one.
There is of course a market for expensive cars, but if they're selling too many for Crewe to keep pace, then they clearly aren't expensive enough. The right crowd and no crowding etc.
A German built Bentley would be pointless - you may as well save a load of money and buy the most expensive S Class you can - it would probably be a better car anyway. However, these days it's all about the brand, innit.
NotNormal said:
This news makes a bit of a mockery of what's being said in the latest Drive videos....
Exactly. Making the car in the UK or Germany really isn't a problem if the marketing jargon that went with it only talked about VAG engineering excellence. However, when the whole justification for Bentley being built in Crewe is due to the special, only possible in, British craftmanship, this story isn't good. It goes to show that the Bentley is nothing more than an expesnive VW Phaeton....Munich said:
Exactly. Making the car in the UK or Germany really isn't a problem if the marketing jargon that went with it only talked about VAG engineering excellence. However, when the whole justification for Bentley being built in Crewe is due to the special, only possible in, British craftmanship, this story isn't good. It goes to show that the Bentley is nothing more than an expesnive VW Phaeton....
I totally agree. I really feel the Continental GT and Flying Spur are a triumph of marketing over substance. I'd far rather the marketing was more "honest". But from a commercial standpoint, I take my hat off to VW - they have turned Bentley into a global mega-brand which, presumably, generates a lot more money than the company did pre VW.But as an enthusiast, the cars possess virtually none of the original Bentley DNA and none of the features that made the older cars so special. They are a mass produced car and a completely different animal to Bentley's of old. And for this reason, whilst they are a wonderful car, per-se, I would like the cars more if they had a VW badge!!
I think someone should get one and re-badge it as a VW.
Not read the whole thread, so someone else may already have mentioned this.
Has the following train of thought ever struck you?
Bentley are owned by Volkswagen.
Volkswagen's base town is Wolfsburg.
The vehicle registration letters for Wolfsburg are WOB.
The Bentley marque was founded by W.O.Bentley, whose initials are therefore WOB.
So if you buy a Bentley in Wolfsburg, and get it registered there, then ......
Has the following train of thought ever struck you?
Bentley are owned by Volkswagen.
Volkswagen's base town is Wolfsburg.
The vehicle registration letters for Wolfsburg are WOB.
The Bentley marque was founded by W.O.Bentley, whose initials are therefore WOB.
So if you buy a Bentley in Wolfsburg, and get it registered there, then ......
matt5791 said:
I totally agree. I really feel the Continental GT and Flying Spur are a triumph of marketing over substance. I'd far rather the marketing was more "honest". But from a commercial standpoint, I take my hat off to VW - they have turned Bentley into a global mega-brand which, presumably, generates a lot more money than the company did pre VW.
But as an enthusiast, the cars possess virtually none of the original Bentley DNA and none of the features that made the older cars so special. They are a mass produced car and a completely different animal to Bentley's of old. And for this reason, whilst they are a wonderful car, per-se, I would like the cars more if they had a VW badge!!
I think someone should get one and re-badge it as a VW.
Lovely though the old Bentley DNA was, nobody wanted to buy one. But as an enthusiast, the cars possess virtually none of the original Bentley DNA and none of the features that made the older cars so special. They are a mass produced car and a completely different animal to Bentley's of old. And for this reason, whilst they are a wonderful car, per-se, I would like the cars more if they had a VW badge!!
I think someone should get one and re-badge it as a VW.
The new cars are roundly dismissed/ignored/hated, and yet sell like hot cakes. Odd, that.
Perhaps the removal of old Bentley DNA was exactly what the patient required?
To me the article reads as if production in Germany is simply a temporary measure to meet demand for a new model and is something that has happened before. The article does not suggest that VW are planning to transfer production wholesale to Germany (not like the UK hi if industry to China). If you want to buy a British built Bentley purchase the Continental or the more expensive models, or when you place your order, make it a condition of purchase that your Flying Spur has come from
Crewe.
I think most intelligent people now realise that cars are made from parts sourced from all over the world and the companies themselves are usually listed on the world stock markets and therefore exact ownership is impossible to determine.
I personally think that 'British' brands need to retain the majority of their production in the UK and I would personally purchase the model that is UK made (if I can afford it...). The idea that British build quality is in some way inferior is an insulting nonsense (talk of British financial management-previous Labour government, Banks, Public sector spending, and you may well have a case) based upon historical perceptions. Modern cars produced in Britain are just as well assembled as their counterparts made in other countries.
The important thing is that increased overseas production does not come at the cost of the 'British' perception of the brand or of jobs and expansion for UK employees and suppliers (for obvious economic reasons). German manufacturers build a large number of models in other countries; Boxster, X3, X5, Z4, ML, TT, Audi A6L, many VWs etc. but they continue to build the core of their production in Germany. As with the British fashion industry alluded to earlier, many 'German' cars owned in the UK have never turned a wheel in Germany.
Crewe.
I think most intelligent people now realise that cars are made from parts sourced from all over the world and the companies themselves are usually listed on the world stock markets and therefore exact ownership is impossible to determine.
I personally think that 'British' brands need to retain the majority of their production in the UK and I would personally purchase the model that is UK made (if I can afford it...). The idea that British build quality is in some way inferior is an insulting nonsense (talk of British financial management-previous Labour government, Banks, Public sector spending, and you may well have a case) based upon historical perceptions. Modern cars produced in Britain are just as well assembled as their counterparts made in other countries.
The important thing is that increased overseas production does not come at the cost of the 'British' perception of the brand or of jobs and expansion for UK employees and suppliers (for obvious economic reasons). German manufacturers build a large number of models in other countries; Boxster, X3, X5, Z4, ML, TT, Audi A6L, many VWs etc. but they continue to build the core of their production in Germany. As with the British fashion industry alluded to earlier, many 'German' cars owned in the UK have never turned a wheel in Germany.
SpeckledJim said:
Lovely though the old Bentley DNA was, nobody wanted to buy one.
The new cars are roundly dismissed/ignored/hated, and yet sell like hot cakes. Odd, that.
Perhaps the removal of old Bentley DNA was exactly what the patient required?
Eh?The new cars are roundly dismissed/ignored/hated, and yet sell like hot cakes. Odd, that.
Perhaps the removal of old Bentley DNA was exactly what the patient required?
Pre VAG, Bentley sold every car it could build. They just couldn't build very many due to the antiquated production facilities and the way they did things. Hand building a 6.75 litre V8 takes time, not helped by the blocks standing for around a year to de-stress. Pumping out perfectly produced engines is easy with modern techniques and in that regard the engine in the new Bentleys is no more special than anything made at Sunderland. VAG have made the cars cheaper, easier and faster to build, and now they are selling far more volume = simple.
The new stuff is of course better than the old Rolls Spirit based tank and that awful Arnage thing, but they have yet to recapture the style and sheer Old Money class of the 1990's Continental. And as long as they keep increasing production and turning out SUV toss, they won't. A marque....sorry, a brand, is hard won and easily ruined - look at Burberry.
iSore said:
SpeckledJim said:
Lovely though the old Bentley DNA was, nobody wanted to buy one.
The new cars are roundly dismissed/ignored/hated, and yet sell like hot cakes. Odd, that.
Perhaps the removal of old Bentley DNA was exactly what the patient required?
Eh?The new cars are roundly dismissed/ignored/hated, and yet sell like hot cakes. Odd, that.
Perhaps the removal of old Bentley DNA was exactly what the patient required?
Pre VAG, Bentley sold every car it could build. They just couldn't build very many due to the antiquated production facilities and the way they did things. Hand building a 6.75 litre V8 takes time, not helped by the blocks standing for around a year to de-stress. Pumping out perfectly produced engines is easy with modern techniques and in that regard the engine in the new Bentleys is no more special than anything made at Sunderland. VAG have made the cars cheaper, easier and faster to build, and now they are selling far more volume = simple.
The new stuff is of course better than the old Rolls Spirit based tank and that awful Arnage thing, but they have yet to recapture the style and sheer Old Money class of the 1990's Continental. And as long as they keep increasing production and turning out SUV toss, they won't. A marque....sorry, a brand, is hard won and easily ruined - look at Burberry.
Well, "Babe" Barnato would buy a few chassis every now & then to help them out, but as he was Chairman, I guess that was cheating. It didn't really help though, Bentleys stopped in 1931 and there hasn't been a Bentley since.
If we were talking about Bentley branded Rolls Royces like the Mulsanne (it's still very much an SZ based car) being built abroad, I could understand the fuss, but does it really matter if Bentley branded D1 and PL71 are built at home, in Germany.
If we were talking about Bentley branded Rolls Royces like the Mulsanne (it's still very much an SZ based car) being built abroad, I could understand the fuss, but does it really matter if Bentley branded D1 and PL71 are built at home, in Germany.
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