RE: Audi S3 saloon: Review

[Maldini35]

jaf01uk said:

Yeah and so did the first TT, going backwards off an autobahn near you, only sorted by a tiny back spoiler and electronics, most other manufacturers develop the cars to handle on test tracks but Audi seem to rely on electronics instead (and btw if the legislators have their way no ESP will be switchable)

Errr Porsche 911? Overtyred and complex electronics are all that keep most drivers from wrapping them around trees.
Please grow up. You don't like Audi - fine - but don't just make stuff up. It makes you sound like a moron.

[Kawasicki]

scherzkeks said:

Nors said:

Totally agree!!


It's like the myth that only RWD cars handle. Anything RWD and high powered in anything other than dry roads is a complete PITA from my personal experience and yes in generally normal driving, not hooning.

Doesn't mean I don't like them, don't appreciate the driving experience or go around slagging them or folk that own them, just not a personal choice to live with for me, especially where I live.

One amusing little factoid to add here since we are discussing the S3's handling characteristics and some of the responses we get in these threads from the Face-tweet generation on the subject: When Volkswagen introduced the MKVI Golf R in the litigation-happy US market, the initial cars contained non-defeatable version of Conti-Teves' ESP system. ASR was defeatable at the click of a button, but not ESP. The reason? At high speeds, and particularly in fast transitions the chassis is balanced to oversteer near its tractive limits. Ponder that one if you will.

All vw vehicles have no option to switch off ESP. It's not unique to the Golf R.

Most cars oversteer in transitional stability tests at a certain speed, there is nothing unusual about that.

So what's to ponder?

[Maldini35]

Debaser said:

It might match or beat its competitors for lap times on track, but if it's anything like the last A3 it won't be close to the best for fun.

The new A3 isn't much like the old one to drive but lap times and track driving are totally irrelevant. It.s like complaining that a Caterham is a bit noisy on a long motorway journey.

[Nors]

Maldini35 said:

Debaser said:

It might match or beat its competitors for lap times on track, but if it's anything like the last A3 it won't be close to the best for fun.

The new A3 isn't much like the old one to drive but lap times and track driving are totally irrelevant. It.s like complaining that a Caterham is a bit noisy on a long motorway journey.

Absolutely!

[Kawasicki]

Maldini35 said:

jaf01uk said:

Yeah and so did the first TT, going backwards off an autobahn near you, only sorted by a tiny back spoiler and electronics, most other manufacturers develop the cars to handle on test tracks but Audi seem to rely on electronics instead (and btw if the legislators have their way no ESP will be switchable)

Errr Porsche 911? Overtyred and complex electronics are all that keep most drivers from wrapping them around trees.
Please grow up. You don't like Audi - fine - but don't just make stuff up. It makes you sound like a moron.

So they were right to "overtyre" then, to keep most drivers alive. Shouldn't it be called "correct tyred" rather than "overtyred".

[Maldini35]

Kawasicki said:

Maldini35 said:

jaf01uk said:

Yeah and so did the first TT, going backwards off an autobahn near you, only sorted by a tiny back spoiler and electronics, most other manufacturers develop the cars to handle on test tracks but Audi seem to rely on electronics instead (and btw if the legislators have their way no ESP will be switchable)

Errr Porsche 911? Overtyred and complex electronics are all that keep most drivers from wrapping them around trees.
Please grow up. You don't like Audi - fine - but don't just make stuff up. It makes you sound like a moron.

So they were right to "overtyre" then, to keep most drivers alive. Shouldn't it be called "correct tyred" rather than "overtyred".

I totally agree. The point I'm making is that with less tyre and less electronic intervention the 911 would be more lively/exciting to drive. Only for expert drivers and the brave. But such sensible and safety focussed considerations are lambasted when Audi applies them. Just pointing out the double standards in some of the previous posts.

[Debaser]

Nors said:

Maldini35 said:

Debaser said:

It might match or beat its competitors for lap times on track, but if it's anything like the last A3 it won't be close to the best for fun.

The new A3 isn't much like the old one to drive but lap times and track driving are totally irrelevant. It.s like complaining that a Caterham is a bit noisy on a long motorway journey.

Absolutely!

You've missed out the quote I was replying to. I don't care how fast the Audi is on a track, my point was it won't be nearly as much fun to drive as the best competitors.

[DoubleSix]

No Debaser, it's you. You're not doing it right. You don't know how to properly exploit an AWD chassis and as such just don''t understand the awesomness...

[Ali_T]

Nors said:

These kind of comments make me laugh!!

You are the very type that accuse the people that buy Audi's of buying only for 'image', yet you'd choose another car, regardless if you like it because you don't like the 'image'!


I thought most petrolheads buy their chosen mode of transport because they like the car, not because of perceived 'image' by a handful of interforum warriors!!

In my experience, petrol heads are every bit as bad, or worse, for buying cars based on image. It's just that the image they look for often isn't the same as the average joe public. To me, given it's the same car, the Golf has a more appealing image simply by not being tainted with the Audi stereotyped image. If you don't like that, tough. It's how I feel. Feel free to think differently.

[Kawasicki]

Maldini35 said:

Kawasicki said:

Maldini35 said:

jaf01uk said:

Yeah and so did the first TT, going backwards off an autobahn near you, only sorted by a tiny back spoiler and electronics, most other manufacturers develop the cars to handle on test tracks but Audi seem to rely on electronics instead (and btw if the legislators have their way no ESP will be switchable)

Errr Porsche 911? Overtyred and complex electronics are all that keep most drivers from wrapping them around trees.
Please grow up. You don't like Audi - fine - but don't just make stuff up. It makes you sound like a moron.

So they were right to "overtyre" then, to keep most drivers alive. Shouldn't it be called "correct tyred" rather than "overtyred".

I totally agree. The point I'm making is that with less tyre and less electronic intervention the 911 would be more lively/exciting to drive. Only for expert drivers and the brave. But such sensible and safety focussed considerations are lambasted when Audi applies them. Just pointing out the double standards in some of the previous posts.

Engaging and safe are not mutually exclusive. I think some consider Audi to have less engaging (fun?) behaviour than they would like. I wouldn't start with a strongly front biased weight distribution if I was building a car that was engaging to drive.

[scherzkeks]

Maldini35 said:

Errr Porsche 911? Overtyred and complex electronics are all that keep most drivers from wrapping them around trees.

You are far too generous. This applies to most performance cars on the market.

[Maldini35]

scherzkeks said:

Maldini35 said:

Errr Porsche 911? Overtyred and complex electronics are all that keep most drivers from wrapping them around trees.

You are far too generous. This applies to most performance cars on the market.

Come to think of it, you're right.

[jaf01uk]

Maldini35 said:

Errr Porsche 911? Overtyred and complex electronics are all that keep most drivers from wrapping them around trees.
Please grow up. You don't like Audi - fine - but don't just make stuff up. It makes you sound like a moron.

You disputing that the TT was leaving the road at high speed backwards? Are you denying this was fixed by adding black boxes? Are you trying to say that manufacturers still properly develop cars to produce mechanical grip rather than rely on electronics, and as for the 911 - complex electronics? 911, 964, 993? Later models maybe but who's making stuff up? Moron? Really?

[Kawasicki]

jaf01uk said:

Maldini35 said:

Errr Porsche 911? Overtyred and complex electronics are all that keep most drivers from wrapping them around trees.
Please grow up. You don't like Audi - fine - but don't just make stuff up. It makes you sound like a moron.

You disputing that the TT was leaving the road at high speed backwards? Are you denying this was fixed by adding black boxes? Are you trying to say that manufacturers still properly develop cars to produce mechanical grip rather than rely on electronics, and as for the 911 - complex electronics? 911, 964, 993? Later models maybe but who's making stuff up? Moron? Really?

Didn't the fix also involve new suspension arms, new dampers and the spoiler...so it wasn't fixed just by adding a black box. They toned down vehicle response, as some drivers couldn't cope with the level of response at high speed.

[scorchio]

Shock horror most phers not liking a Audi cause they are all bland and drive st, can we please move along as it's the same drivel spouted every time . As many have mentioned quad ovals signifies 'S' models and ovals on the 'RS' model, but seriously guys who gives a flying fk about how many tailpipes you have.

I like Audi products so does that by definition make me a wker ?, I have tried a few different manufacturers inc three awesome R32 GTR skylines, but have ended up sticking with Audi , had a B8 supercharged S4 saloon which was awesome and a very competent car, we traded that in for a new SQ5 which the misses loves and it has a fair amount of mid range shove and oh dear it has quad tailpipes .

No I am not a Audi fanboy but do agree on some points that they can be ridiculously over sprung all the way from a A1 s-line to the B8 RS4 . I was going to have one of these S3 saloons as my second car and drove Aberdeen audi demo S3 sport back, to be honest it left me disappointed and the electronic boost gauge just isn't needed...........oh regarding the swoosh writing, that is standard type face for R and RS models

[Morepowerrrrrr]

Personally l love the look of this car. I don't understand all the negative comments. I've test driven the new S3 sportback and the engine is immense, smooth, powerful an flexible. The ride is superb and grip amazing. Personally I don't want a hatch, I don't think they look that special and everyone has one in the UK. The saloon is far better looking than both hatches and the boot is bigger. As I have 2 small kids the back seats will never be down so the supposed hatch flexibility is of no use to me. I'm defintely getting one of these when they open the order book, just can't decide on the colour!

[Maldini35]

jaf01uk said:

Maldini35 said:

Errr Porsche 911? Overtyred and complex electronics are all that keep most drivers from wrapping them around trees.
Please grow up. You don't like Audi - fine - but don't just make stuff up. It makes you sound like a moron.

You disputing that the TT was leaving the road at high speed backwards? Are you denying this was fixed by adding black boxes? Are you trying to say that manufacturers still properly develop cars to produce mechanical grip rather than rely on electronics, and as for the 911 - complex electronics? 911, 964, 993? Later models maybe but who's making stuff up? Moron? Really?

You're doing it again.

The original TT launch was nearly 15 years ago. Things have moved on old chap.
Or are you still telling your mates that all Alfa's rust and Jag's are foe old duffers at the golf club?

[jaf01uk]

Maldini35 said:

You're doing it again.

The original TT launch was nearly 15 years ago. Things have moved on old chap.
Or are you still telling your mates that all Alfa's rust and Jag's are foe old duffers at the golf club?

Thanks for confirming that for me

[Maldini35]

jaf01uk said:

Thanks for confirming that for me

You're welcome.

If you read your initial post - you claimed that bad old Audi (just Audi) don't bother testing their cars on the test track and just rely on electronics.
This is clearly nonsense and we both know it.
You then got a bit annoyed when I picked up on it.
To try and save face you tried to change your argument to say that most manufacturers now rely heavily on ESP. This is true, but that's not what you originally said.
Nothing more to it really.

To counter your inevitable response: the original TT example - yes this clearly was an oversight a bit like the Mercedes A Class 'Elk Test', but it was 15 years ago and neither example is relevant to the companies today.

Just to bring you up to date I have some more news hot off the press: Jesus is dead, Man walks on moon, the Beatles have split.

Edited by Maldini35 on Saturday 23 November 08:08

[jaf01uk]

Maldini35 said:

jaf01uk said:

Thanks for confirming that for me

You're welcome.

If you read your initial post - you claimed that bad old Audi (just Audi) don't bother testing their cars on the test track and just rely on electronics.
This is clearly nonsense and we both know it.
You then got a bit annoyed when I picked up on it.
To try and save face you tried to change your argument to say that most manufacturers now rely heavily on ESP. This is true, but that's not what you originally said.
Nothing more to it really.

To counter your inevitable response: the original TT example - yes this clearly was an oversight a bit like the Mercedes A Class 'Elk Test', but it was 15 years ago and neither example is relevant to the companies today.

Just to bring you up to date I have some more news hot off the press: Jesus is dead, Man walks on moon, the Beatles have split.

Edited by Maldini35 on Saturday 23 November 08:08

You know what, I wrote a long counter to your latest personalised attack but what the hell, if you would care to look back at my original post all I said was this was a downscaled A4, the reference to esp was in reply to scherkeks post about taming oversteer so relevant. I have no interest in replying to rest of your patronising personal digs, I seem to have touched a nerve with you so carry on...lifes too short