Bloodhound LSR Thread As Requested...
Discussion
Hawk1018 said:
tigerkoi said:
I agree as well. I don’t see any slagging off being made and instead on balance someone like Equus (and Mave) have made huge contributions to the overall conversation, and I think it’s quite obvious he has distinct direct working knowledge of things related. I’ve followed it all and found loads of interesting information and much I wasn’t aware of in relation to the the LSR and work that’s got into it.
I know people like Insight have given lots of personal energy and effort into the Bloodhound project and like anything it must feel a touch raw when things don’t go as hoped. No one is targeting that. There’s very little criticism and slagging off of the “doers” - politely as it were - more challenge of what went on from the more mechanically minded over the design philosophy and reasonable questions about the viability of the overall project/money/marketing etc aspect of the effort.
It’s a bit ironic that there are some who go round feeling so offended by anything that implies criticism of the project are the first to shoot off with the caustic and personal comments and telling people that they are “objectionable” or “should take their PH card and leave” or “I thought this was PH where speed matters” or some such playground hissy b
ks. Some need to look at themselves and their own posting style a little bit. Calling out for mods on what’s one of the few interesting technical conversations on the forum. That’s a bit sad sack. 
I disagree. Frankly I have grown very tired of the rude posts and responses...equus's approach to Insight has been embarrassing and childish to say the least.....and when you get to the point of calling other forum members snowflakes and to strap on a set...(over rude comments he initiated)...I have had enough. Looks like the Mods had enough too......that post was removed. I know people like Insight have given lots of personal energy and effort into the Bloodhound project and like anything it must feel a touch raw when things don’t go as hoped. No one is targeting that. There’s very little criticism and slagging off of the “doers” - politely as it were - more challenge of what went on from the more mechanically minded over the design philosophy and reasonable questions about the viability of the overall project/money/marketing etc aspect of the effort.
It’s a bit ironic that there are some who go round feeling so offended by anything that implies criticism of the project are the first to shoot off with the caustic and personal comments and telling people that they are “objectionable” or “should take their PH card and leave” or “I thought this was PH where speed matters” or some such playground hissy b
ks. Some need to look at themselves and their own posting style a little bit. Calling out for mods on what’s one of the few interesting technical conversations on the forum. That’s a bit sad sack. Lets keep this civil, and keep ourselves on higher ground. Engineers and business men should act like they are just that. Otherwise, we will keep contacting the Moderators. Sorry to be sad sack.....but act like grown adults, and we wont have to go down that road.
But...and I’m no engineer or remotely technical...but it’s much more interesting watching people who can debate on technical level i.e. Mave and Equus, and I can then make my own mind up who I choose to believe. Engineers need to learn to be more persuasive of their solutions not pushy and determined to be proven right. Senior people just switch off when faced with some red faced techie mainframe guy or design gal who comes storming in and has an agenda to do it only in one way. Other options just filling the ppt like a flowery border.
But there’s way too much cocksure, “I’ve done things, what have you done”, ‘what do you know, prove yourself’ type nonsense from so many people it ruins a simple (actually very complex to me!) discourse. Play the ball not the man! People aren’t trolls if they offer the alter view. But people take personal challenge to that rather than talk about the subject.
One thing I do know is that the argumentative engineers and techie guys do my head in and they’re the first lot you underline on a spreadsheet of names when whole floors of desks need to be rid of the buggers.
Is it not possible to just do things for the hell of it.
Who cares how relevant it is, the whole idea was to capture the imagination of kids, it was how it was supposed to attract funding, and I am hopeful that some kids did get captured by it, as I did many years ago from reading books and seeing 2 and SSC up close.
Not everything has to have a direct purpose to our lives.
And being honest electric cars are hardly eco friendly, in terms of manufacture, sales, moving them about on diesel trucks, the mining and manufacturing process of the steel, cloth, not to mention the plastics involved etc.
Unless you can tick all those boxes, an electric car is the same as any other car, just with less emissions form the vehicle, not a lot else, meanoing the overall footprint is still huge, merely reduced.
Who cares how relevant it is, the whole idea was to capture the imagination of kids, it was how it was supposed to attract funding, and I am hopeful that some kids did get captured by it, as I did many years ago from reading books and seeing 2 and SSC up close.
Not everything has to have a direct purpose to our lives.
And being honest electric cars are hardly eco friendly, in terms of manufacture, sales, moving them about on diesel trucks, the mining and manufacturing process of the steel, cloth, not to mention the plastics involved etc.
Unless you can tick all those boxes, an electric car is the same as any other car, just with less emissions form the vehicle, not a lot else, meanoing the overall footprint is still huge, merely reduced.
chunder27 said:
....And being honest electric cars are hardly eco friendly, in terms of manufacture, sales, moving them about on diesel trucks, the mining and manufacturing process of the steel, cloth, not to mention the plastics involved etc.
Unless you can tick all those boxes, an electric car is the same as any other car, just with less emissions form the vehicle, not a lot else, meanoing the overall footprint is still huge, merely reduced.
Not only that, but think of all that cobalt used for mobile phone and car batteries. Picked up the FT the other day and if I understand correctly 2/3rds of the stuff is in or around DRC (Congo) and Zambia. And if those massive holes dug into the ground for extraction aren’t owner occupied by a Glencore-type, paying off Blood Diamond types to keep the places secure, the argument goes, them you’ll just see the Chinese suck up the rest for their needs. And that will surely drive up costs. On that basis alone I think with upturn in US oil produce and desire in Saudi to lightly preserve for further fortune their reserves, oil (and the internal combustion engine) is still a better mid-term bet than electric, other arguments aside!Unless you can tick all those boxes, an electric car is the same as any other car, just with less emissions form the vehicle, not a lot else, meanoing the overall footprint is still huge, merely reduced.
chunder27 said:
The facts are simple.
They did the easy bit, got initial funding, sort of proved they could do that.
the hard part was running it in SA, I am staggered they estimate it would cost 25 million, am fairly sure SSC was done on a fraction of that.
As I recall the plan involves at least one more run at Newquay then two years worth of running in Hakaseen with modifications between each. It's a big car with a lot of support kit. I'd guess just the air freight and transport will eat a good chunk of £25m.They did the easy bit, got initial funding, sort of proved they could do that.
the hard part was running it in SA, I am staggered they estimate it would cost 25 million, am fairly sure SSC was done on a fraction of that.
chunder27 said:
The facts are simple.
They did the easy bit, got initial funding, sort of proved they could do that.
the hard part was running it in SA, I am staggered they estimate it would cost 25 million, am fairly sure SSC was done on a fraction of that.
Has anyone actually seen a breakdown of what that £25m is all about? They did the easy bit, got initial funding, sort of proved they could do that.
the hard part was running it in SA, I am staggered they estimate it would cost 25 million, am fairly sure SSC was done on a fraction of that.
This wouldn’t have followed a usual/internal restructuring process, IAS 37 and all that but valuing a (small) business with no tangible profit lines means no P/E ratio to work off, etc. Unpaid staff maybe aside, can’t see the car and tooling being 25 bucks. That’s manic. Someone’s been listening to the Doobie Brothers.
On certain grapevines you’ll hear the gossip about what’s the deal with a Carillion, or a Lehman say, but whilst it’s subscale (£€$) in the whole scheme of things it’s a headscratcher for those who look at distressed things. I just can’t see how FRP arrived at that number. Because after all when you buy something where the leverage is in your favour you’re not paying for past sweat and labour and goodwill; you’re buying at what it’s worth in real life, like today. But happy to be educated. I recall someone mentioning each incremental 100mph cost x amount or something.
Keen to know too. SSC was only £3m - £5.something m today.
skwdenyer said:
tigerkoi said:
Keen to know too. SSC was only £3m - £5.something m today.
It is a shame that things don't scale linearly in the engineering world But I’m still at a loss as to how £25m came about. Even scratching around with basic business school stuff, nothing except ‘cost to entry’ makes sense for valuation purposes. There’s no current industry comparison, the project didn’t exhibit regular earning potential, net book value would be heavily scrutinised....and like the comment on the other thread, there’s potential reputational risk that adds a discount, as it were, and just a headwind for an investor. Future cash flow worth? Minimal at best.
Genuinely interested to learn if there’s a broader engineering breakdown for much of that figure. Freight costs would hover around $10 p/kilo for something like that and there won’t be many carriers who could do it. Undisclosed further functional testing? Hiring locals to clear the runway of stones and whatnot? Because tangible and intangible assets assessed (from the outside) alone, this project/business was going to a firesale allllll dayyyyy long.
Getting the thread back on topic, several posters have said why don’t Richard Branson, James Dyson, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and Redbull get involved. I know Redbull wouldn’t of been interested because:
1: They prefer to be the sole sponsor. That would mean all the current sponsors that have labels on the car would have to be taken off, and the sponsors being paid back.
2: They currently have a deal with Casio, which means the backup gauges would have to be replaced as they were made by Rolex.
3: They also have a deal with Honda, so the APU would have to be a Honda engine. Previously they had a deal with Renault, so the APU would of been a Renault engine instead.
As to Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos? Well do I really have to say why they wouldn’t sponsor Bloodhound? I mean it’s pretty obvious to me. Ok I wouldn’t be too surprised if Elon Musk had his name on the fin. Sure the name wouldn’t say Elon Musk, I’d of thought he’d use an anagram.
As to Richard Branson and James Dyson? I’m not sure about those two. At a guess I’d say it’s the amount of advertising they’d get compared to the amount they’re willing to spend. They’d probably want to have a significant amount of advertising space compared the other sponsors.
If no one accurately guesses as to why Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos wouldn’t sponsor Bloodhound by 11:30 am, I’ll say why.
1: They prefer to be the sole sponsor. That would mean all the current sponsors that have labels on the car would have to be taken off, and the sponsors being paid back.
2: They currently have a deal with Casio, which means the backup gauges would have to be replaced as they were made by Rolex.
3: They also have a deal with Honda, so the APU would have to be a Honda engine. Previously they had a deal with Renault, so the APU would of been a Renault engine instead.
As to Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos? Well do I really have to say why they wouldn’t sponsor Bloodhound? I mean it’s pretty obvious to me. Ok I wouldn’t be too surprised if Elon Musk had his name on the fin. Sure the name wouldn’t say Elon Musk, I’d of thought he’d use an anagram.
As to Richard Branson and James Dyson? I’m not sure about those two. At a guess I’d say it’s the amount of advertising they’d get compared to the amount they’re willing to spend. They’d probably want to have a significant amount of advertising space compared the other sponsors.
If no one accurately guesses as to why Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos wouldn’t sponsor Bloodhound by 11:30 am, I’ll say why.
SHutchinson said:
I can’t work out if my cuff links are now worthless or priceless! 
I wouldn't still mine, therefore priceless. As for the £25m is that the amount the administrators want, or how much it will be to complete? I thought / understood the latter. Autosport has Andy claiming there's still interested parties and that the effective cost to them is now a lot lower...
SHutchinson said:
I can’t work out if my cuff links are now worthless or priceless!
I wouldn't sell mine, therefore priceless. As for the £25m is that the amount the administrators want, or how much it will be to complete? I thought / understood the latter. Autocar has Andy claiming there's still interested parties and that the effective cost to them is now a lot lower... https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/bloo...
Edited by mcdjl on Tuesday 11th December 10:31
mcdjl said:
SHutchinson said:
I can’t work out if my cuff links are now worthless or priceless!
I wouldn't still mine, therefore priceless. As for the £25m is that the amount the administrators want, or how much it will be to complete? I thought / understood the latter. Autosport has Andy claiming there's still interested parties and that the effective cost to them is now a lot lower...
1. Would the MOD loan the EJ200's out again, to any potential buyer, I do not know the answer to that I'm afraid.
2. Any future owner would need most of the engineers back if they were to stand any chance of running that car SAFELY.
tigerkoi said:
Oh for sure and no implication intended. I just added the quoted figure because chunder didn’t reference it fully in his earlier post. I know engineers can spend it with the best of them!
But I’m still at a loss as to how £25m came about. Even scratching around with basic business school stuff, nothing except ‘cost to entry’ makes sense for valuation purposes. There’s no current industry comparison, the project didn’t exhibit regular earning potential, net book value would be heavily scrutinised....and like the comment on the other thread, there’s potential reputational risk that adds a discount, as it were, and just a headwind for an investor. Future cash flow worth? Minimal at best.
Genuinely interested to learn if there’s a broader engineering breakdown for much of that figure. Freight costs would hover around $10 p/kilo for something like that and there won’t be many carriers who could do it. Undisclosed further functional testing? Hiring locals to clear the runway of stones and whatnot? Because tangible and intangible assets assessed (from the outside) alone, this project/business was going to a firesale allllll dayyyyy long.
From what I have heard, rocket development was going to be the big expense. The team was also kicking around ideas of using electric power for the peroxide pump instead of a V8.combustion engine. The rocket was going to have to be even larger for the 1000 mph attempt...….even possibly needing a redesign in the rear of the vehicle to fit it. I think most of the money would have went to Nammo…..and the 2 years of further testing/running to get to 1000.
But I’m still at a loss as to how £25m came about. Even scratching around with basic business school stuff, nothing except ‘cost to entry’ makes sense for valuation purposes. There’s no current industry comparison, the project didn’t exhibit regular earning potential, net book value would be heavily scrutinised....and like the comment on the other thread, there’s potential reputational risk that adds a discount, as it were, and just a headwind for an investor. Future cash flow worth? Minimal at best.
Genuinely interested to learn if there’s a broader engineering breakdown for much of that figure. Freight costs would hover around $10 p/kilo for something like that and there won’t be many carriers who could do it. Undisclosed further functional testing? Hiring locals to clear the runway of stones and whatnot? Because tangible and intangible assets assessed (from the outside) alone, this project/business was going to a firesale allllll dayyyyy long.
From what I have heard, rocket development was going to be the big expense. The team was also kicking around ideas of using electric power for the peroxide pump instead of a V8.combustion engine. The rocket was going to have to be even larger for the 1000 mph attempt...….even possibly needing a redesign in the rear of the vehicle to fit it. I think most of the money would have went to Nammo…..and the 2 years of further testing/running to get to 1000.
This thread was worthwhile when In51ght was able to provide fascinating views into a unique project.
Whether the project was worthless, pointless or fabulous was a seperate question that was never addressed in this thread to my recollection until the ongoing viability of the Project became public and then a handful of opinionated posters decided they knew better and proceeded to tell them how, why and what should or could have been done, and just for good measure, proceeded to insult the only actual person (afaik) contributing to the thread who actually genuinely knew anything at all of the project.
Having your posts deleted by mods should be a key marker of the value of your online behaviour and further reactions to that inform everyone else of how much you care about that, as well as how easy it is to fall to the level of petty insults; please note there are no insults in the previous sentence.
As to the cufflinks, I'm very pleased and proud of mine and always will be, regardless of what happens to the remains of Bloodhound SSC.
In51ghts comments are always telling and to the point, and IMHO, have always been open to comment upon but in the recent few pages his contributions have been passed over by some as if he was just another armchair expert who thinks they know so much more than actually do.
Whether the project was worthless, pointless or fabulous was a seperate question that was never addressed in this thread to my recollection until the ongoing viability of the Project became public and then a handful of opinionated posters decided they knew better and proceeded to tell them how, why and what should or could have been done, and just for good measure, proceeded to insult the only actual person (afaik) contributing to the thread who actually genuinely knew anything at all of the project.
Having your posts deleted by mods should be a key marker of the value of your online behaviour and further reactions to that inform everyone else of how much you care about that, as well as how easy it is to fall to the level of petty insults; please note there are no insults in the previous sentence.
As to the cufflinks, I'm very pleased and proud of mine and always will be, regardless of what happens to the remains of Bloodhound SSC.
In51ghts comments are always telling and to the point, and IMHO, have always been open to comment upon but in the recent few pages his contributions have been passed over by some as if he was just another armchair expert who thinks they know so much more than actually do.
E24man said:
In51ghts comments are always telling and to the point, and IMHO, have always been open to comment upon but in the recent few pages his contributions have been passed over by some as if he was just another armchair expert who thinks they know so much more than actually do.
Oy - that's my role. IN51GHT can jolly well stick to facts and information, and leave pontificating and speculating to the rest of us!dilbert2000 said:
E24man said:
In51ghts comments are always telling and to the point, and IMHO, have always been open to comment upon but in the recent few pages his contributions have been passed over by some as if he was just another armchair expert who thinks they know so much more than actually do.
That's because whilst In51ght constantly alludes to his greater inside knowledge, in recent weeks he's offered very few actual facts. On that basis, he is in effect no more insightful than an armchair expert, hence being treated like one.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff