RE: Chris Harris video: 911 Turbo vs McLaren 12C

[EskimoArapaho]

cliffie said:

So what were the lap times around Anglesey then?

You didn't notice that it wasn't designed to be an objective comparison? This looks like a desperate ploy to get back into McLaren's good books. Numbers around a track with all things made equal (the aforementioned LC/etc) might not have worked quite so well.

(Apolo1 is an arse, but he's right in this case.)

[Oz83]

Great video as usual, but as a comparison exercise I feel it was a little irrelevant.

The 911 will be faster on the road more of the time. It beat the McLaren up to well above legal speeds (in the UK anyway) and will do this in any weather conditions. The added practicality of the +2 seats means you could squeeze the kids or a couple of small friends in there if you needed to. Even if you could afford the McLaren, would you really choose it over the Porsche as an everyday car?

I don't think price should be a talking point between the 12C and the Turbo S. I mean, if you want to go fast for less money, buy a GTR. Personally I think this is where Porsche has been clever in pricing the Turbo S. Like CH said, it is in no mans land, but really what that means is that there are no alternatives.

[Dblue]

APOLO1 said:

IMI A said:

Dblue said:

APOLO1 said:

Dblue said:

Mate, they are both in max attack mode and the slowest Mac is just faster than the fastest Porsche (Until the 918 arrives) it really is.Did you not just watch it ??

The Turbo is a fine car but its not as quick as the 12C. And yes, the 12C costs a lot more but the Turbo is a lot of money for a car that looks not entirely unlike a £45k Boxster. And I say that as a lover of all things 911.

don't flow your reasoning....CH is in the Mac, no inside pics of the TTS on take off, launch control requires a procedure. Sport plus ect...do not see this engaged, from the way the tts takes off I would say that it is not.....,as for saying that a 991tts looks like a 45k boxster.....each to there own....ill ask for my 100k back when I pk up my second one next month. IMV the tts is good value.....

You think that an average John or Julie with only a passing interest in cars could tell what was in their mirror of the two, Boxster or 991 Turbo? I think not and there's lots and lots of shared bits. By that measure the Turbo is very expensive indeed.

Whereas the 12C is and looks like an exotic supercar which shares parts only with a near 900k Hypercar.

The Turbo remains rather unloved in the Porsche firmament and its residuals will show that this time around just as it has in the past.

APOLO the new Porsche turbo is terrible VFM nowadays IMO and I agree most people would not be able to tell the difference between a Cayman, Boxster or any 911 nowadays. In fact in many ways the Cayman looks more like a 911 of old due to looking more compact in size. Lastly lets be clear the Macca should be quicker at its price point - is its not as you are saying there's a problem. Both cars still do not do anything for me though. I agree with a few on here that the new F Type Coupe looks and sounds the biz. I'd still take a 458 Spyder though money no object!

but is that not what makes the 991TTS so appealing as a Q car...leave any place...drive to Eu with no problems, the best back up of any car manufacturer on the planet...turn up at any track day. Any weather..make the 12c and RSs for that matter wish they had stopped in bed...Then out to the shops with the kids...

But a £50k less expensive Carrera 4 does that for you. Its not as fast but its also cheaper on gas, insurance and , this is a biggie, depreciation.
It makes a sweeter noise and may edge it handling wise as well. Not so sure about your back up point, I don't think Porsche has a particularly special back up reputation. By definition its a premium manufacturer with dealers spread far and wide compared to Audi or BMW for example.

I get the Q car point though, making a virtue out of it's ubiquity.

[BMCG]

Dblue said:

But a £50k less expensive Carrera 4 does that for you. Its not as fast but its also cheaper on gas, insurance and , this is a biggie, depreciation.
It makes a sweeter noise and may edge it handling wise as well. Not so sure about your back up point, I don't think Porsche has a particularly special back up reputation. By definition its a premium manufacturer with dealers spread far and wide compared to Audi or BMW for example.

I get the Q car point though, making a virtue out of it's ubiquity.

Concur that I struggle to see the advantage of a TTS over a C4S...for anything outside Autobahn sturming....

Whilst Porsche gaps in a comparison against BMW/Merc/Audi....the network of dealers and service support that Porsche affords across Europe is an order of magnitude greater than either Ferrari or McLaren...with the latter rather more the subject of this ....dialogue (?)....

[Ed Straker]

DMC2 said:

Let's not forget the turbo has four seats which puts it in a different league when it comes to usability.

Lol
It so does not.
If you can afford a Macca you can afford to have the wife and kids sit in your Range Rover when the need arises.

[chrisw1991]

Did he really say peeps

[original guvnor]

I generally really like 911's (including the 991 but less so than the 997) but I can't escape the fact that the 991 Turbos are hideously ugly. By the far the ugliest variant of the 991. The rear in particular. Awful, awful, awful.

I'd buy a GT3 over a Turbo S any day of the week. I think I could live with the fact that it would be about 0.5s slower to 100mph.

I agree that the 12c looks the business when you see one in real life. They sound pretty good in real life too in my experience. For a first "proper" production car from Mclaren it's a pretty stunning thing. Just wait until they have a bit more experience, after all, how long have Porsche & Ferrari been producing sports cars....?

[Jman93]

Another great video from Chris Harris I was surprised to see the McLaren beat the Turbo S in the drag race, although looking back I don't know why taking into account the power advantage. It's nice to know that its a little bit more exciting (right word?) than the 997 era Turbo models.

[Gandahar]

So the Porsche or the MP4 or the new BBR Mazda turbo thingy ?

I think for most drivers, who are not as skilled as the likes of Bomber Harris and Jethro Tull Boddingtons, the Mazda Turbo BBR special mk 3.51 would be best.

[Devil2575]

So in summary the car that costs £100k more more is better...

So who do we give the "No st Sherlock" award too?

[Dr Z]

I thought the premise of the video was interesting. Why do people keep banging on about the price difference? At this level of the market, does it really matter?

My God, the 991TTS has an ugly, ugly arse!

[Devil2575]

Dr Z said:

I thought the premise of the video was interesting. Why do people keep banging on about the price difference? At this level of the market, does it really matter?

Yes it does, unless you work on the premise that the extra cost of the MC12 is just extra profit margin.

Do you think that Porsche could make the 911 Turbo better for an extra £100k?

[NomduJour]

Porsche will make a huge amount more profit per car than McLaren.

[AL5026]

APOLO1 said:

CH, new low mate. 110k diff in price on cars tested......no sport plus or LC on the Porsche....Hope you get the 12C GT3 Drive

So, playing devils advocate for a moment. Could it not be argued that it was equally unfair on the Mclaren, seeing that for the test, the heavier convertible was used? Or is your argument too one sided to have taken that into consideration.
That Mclaren were unconcerned about this fact, knowing what their car was being pitched against, speaks volumes and the drag race, unfair or not, still saw the Porsche having its pants pulled down above 120.
Incidentally, I'm left cold by the Mclaren, the Porsche much less so.

[Wadeski]

Sounded like LC was on when they were on the line. Pop pop pop pop at constant revs.

Bruntinghorpe's surface isnt a drag strip, you wont get the same 0-60 as in perfect conditions.

[Andy ap]

I really don't understand the fascination with porsches. I really don't. You'd have to pay me to have the Porsche but id pay to have the Mclaren.

[chrisironside]

"Above 100 the McLaren crucifies the 911"... To me it looked like the 12C eeked out an advantage and then it didn't change a lot.
I know the 911 Turbo is too fast and expensive too merit pity, but I was impressed with the way it kept pace with the McLaren.

I think they're both great all-round and not massively in your face supercars. A nice sort of car to have and big thumbs up to anyone who is lucky enough to have either.

[Dblue]

Devil2575 said:

Dr Z said:

I thought the premise of the video was interesting. Why do people keep banging on about the price difference? At this level of the market, does it really matter?

Yes it does, unless you work on the premise that the extra cost of the MC12 is just extra profit margin.

Do you think that Porsche could make the 911 Turbo better for an extra £100k?

But the 12C will out perform or at least match similar "Supercars" costing twice its price , its a moot point.

A 75k Datsun will absolutely match the Turbo (and a used one with little fettling will show it the way) in a straight line or better it on a circuit.

The fact is the Turbo looks like a rather less attractive overweight version of a sub 50k stablemate, the 12C looks like a proper exotic, is far rarer and just about as usable day to day.

Its also not £100k cheaper. The List price of a 12C Coupe (Not Spyder) with only a modest visit to the options list is more like £45k more. A difference that will likely increase over 4 -6 year time frame.

[CHN]

Andy ap said:

I really don't understand the fascination with porsches. I really don't. You'd have to pay me to have the Porsche but id pay to have the Mclaren.

What utter, utter bks. Someone would have to pay you to have the turbo? Really? Yes, sure....

[J4CKO]

Dblue said:

APOLO1 said:

IMI A said:

Dblue said:

APOLO1 said:

Dblue said:

Mate, they are both in max attack mode and the slowest Mac is just faster than the fastest Porsche (Until the 918 arrives) it really is.Did you not just watch it ??

The Turbo is a fine car but its not as quick as the 12C. And yes, the 12C costs a lot more but the Turbo is a lot of money for a car that looks not entirely unlike a £45k Boxster. And I say that as a lover of all things 911.

don't flow your reasoning....CH is in the Mac, no inside pics of the TTS on take off, launch control requires a procedure. Sport plus ect...do not see this engaged, from the way the tts takes off I would say that it is not.....,as for saying that a 991tts looks like a 45k boxster.....each to there own....ill ask for my 100k back when I pk up my second one next month. IMV the tts is good value.....

You think that an average John or Julie with only a passing interest in cars could tell what was in their mirror of the two, Boxster or 991 Turbo? I think not and there's lots and lots of shared bits. By that measure the Turbo is very expensive indeed.

Whereas the 12C is and looks like an exotic supercar which shares parts only with a near 900k Hypercar.

The Turbo remains rather unloved in the Porsche firmament and its residuals will show that this time around just as it has in the past.

APOLO the new Porsche turbo is terrible VFM nowadays IMO and I agree most people would not be able to tell the difference between a Cayman, Boxster or any 911 nowadays. In fact in many ways the Cayman looks more like a 911 of old due to looking more compact in size. Lastly lets be clear the Macca should be quicker at its price point - is its not as you are saying there's a problem. Both cars still do not do anything for me though. I agree with a few on here that the new F Type Coupe looks and sounds the biz. I'd still take a 458 Spyder though money no object!

but is that not what makes the 991TTS so appealing as a Q car...leave any place...drive to Eu with no problems, the best back up of any car manufacturer on the planet...turn up at any track day. Any weather..make the 12c and RSs for that matter wish they had stopped in bed...Then out to the shops with the kids...

But a £50k less expensive Carrera 4 does that for you. Its not as fast but its also cheaper on gas, insurance and , this is a biggie, depreciation.
It makes a sweeter noise and may edge it handling wise as well. Not so sure about your back up point, I don't think Porsche has a particularly special back up reputation. By definition its a premium manufacturer with dealers spread far and wide compared to Audi or BMW for example.

I get the Q car point though, making a virtue out of it's ubiquity.

How can a version of an iconic Sports Car, known the world over by car enthusiasts and everyone else, with "Turbo" (which means fast to most people) written on its rear end ever qualify as a Q car, it is the very antithesis of a Q car, it is a sensible trousers, slightly upright for the class, mentally fast all weather supercar (with a small s, Lambos get a capital S, 911's dont, however fast) that looks a bit like other products from a manufacturer renown for making fast cars.