RE: Chris Harris video: 911 Turbo vs McLaren 12C

[original guvnor]

CHN said:

What utter, utter bks. Someone would have to pay you to have the turbo? Really? Yes, sure....

Don't take everything so literally. Don't you understand it's a figure of speech for saying he'd never buy one?

[TP321]

Dblue said:

But the 12C will out perform or at least match similar "Supercars" costing twice its price , its a moot point.

A 75k Datsun will absolutely match the Turbo (and a used one with little fettling will show it the way) in a straight line or better it on a circuit.

The fact is the Turbo looks like a rather less attractive overweight version of a sub 50k stablemate, the 12C looks like a proper exotic, is far rarer and just about as usable day to day.

Its also not £100k cheaper. The List price of a 12C Coupe (Not Spyder) with only a modest visit to the options list is more like £45k more. A difference that will likely increase over 4 -6 year time frame.

+1 Spot on

A £190k Mclaren Coupe against a £140k 911TTS, makes the Porsche seem like a waste of money, especially when the Mclaren can keep up with a £280k Aventador.........Well done Mclaren - bring on the World Cup...

[Dr Z]

Dblue said:

Devil2575 said:

Dr Z said:

I thought the premise of the video was interesting. Why do people keep banging on about the price difference? At this level of the market, does it really matter?

Yes it does, unless you work on the premise that the extra cost of the MC12 is just extra profit margin.

Do you think that Porsche could make the 911 Turbo better for an extra £100k?

But the 12C will out perform or at least match similar "Supercars" costing twice its price , its a moot point.

A 75k Datsun will absolutely match the Turbo (and a used one with little fettling will show it the way) in a straight line or better it on a circuit.

The fact is the Turbo looks like a rather less attractive overweight version of a sub 50k stablemate, the 12C looks like a proper exotic, is far rarer and just about as usable day to day.

Its also not £100k cheaper. The List price of a 12C Coupe (Not Spyder) with only a modest visit to the options list is more like £45k more. A difference that will likely increase over 4 -6 year time frame.

Indeed, ultimately the 12C and the Turbo S appeal to different types of people. 12Cs bona fide exotica Vs Q-car appeal of the 991TTS as mentioned in this thread. Bringing the GTR in to the equation, again that appeals to a different demographic, the fact that it's as fast as a turbo wouldn't come in to consideration if I was in the market for a car priced in the 991 TTS range. But then again, I'm not in to willy waving contests. However, the fact that you can get a much more 'exotic' 12C for not much more is likely to sway me... (the fact that it's faster than a TTS is a bonus).

As for Porsche making a 911 Turbo better for the price difference to the 12C, I would turn that around and ask, if they did, will they be able to sell it at that price, as a 911 Turbo?

[boxsey]

Andy ap said:

I really don't understand the fascination with porsches. I really don't. You'd have to pay me to have the Porsche but id pay to have the Mclaren.

I didn't either until I drove one. Eight years on I can't see myself being without one. A used Porsche is in the reach of many, whilst a McLaren is only in the reach of a few. I'll continue to admire Porsches from the inside but have to be content to admire McLarens from the outside.

[will261058]

GRBF430F1 said:

1 - 0 to England. Porsche is a very good sports car but its not a supercar IMHO

Great result as expected. Actually its 1-0 to Britain, but I am sure thats what you meant!

[clubsportguy]

Chris have you got a new watch????????????????? What is it ??????????????????????????????

[NomduJour]

clubsportguy said:

Chris have you got a new watch????????????????? What is it ??????????????????????????????

Mille Miglia

[gumsie]

Bionic Billy Nav said:

Any way I have request. I used to love Top gear when I was younger, and no it's not me growing up - I still love cars and hooning about in them. Today it seems it's a show about who can be the biggest Tw4t. Clarkson and Hammond tie for the honours with May a close second. Back in the day it had the interesting car stuff with enough sarcasm, innuendo and foolishness to keep it light hearted. Really?

You are our only hope now for a proper motoring show. Fifth Gear?

Fifth gear is missing something. Don't know what it is but it's missing. That said, VBH and Tiff Needell could join Chris Harris and we're sorted?

[clubsportguy]

gumsie said:

Bionic Billy Nav said:

Any way I have request. I used to love Top gear when I was younger, and no it's not me growing up - I still love cars and hooning about in them. Today it seems it's a show about who can be the biggest Tw4t. Clarkson and Hammond tie for the honours with May a close second. Back in the day it had the interesting car stuff with enough sarcasm, innuendo and foolishness to keep it light hearted. Really?

You are our only hope now for a proper motoring show. Fifth Gear?

Fifth gear is missing something. Don't know what it is but it's missing. That said, VBH and Tiff Needell could join Chris Harris and we're sorted?

Recently met Steve Berry from Top Gear at a Classic car show and he was talking about why they can't be a another "Car" comment show as car makers don't like it when presenters make bad comments about a car which has cost millions to make. They would prefer to have X3 idiots acting like public school boys!!!

PS Steve Berry is a top bloke, who is down to earth and I spoke with him for about 30 minutes. Maybe a car show with Chris Harris , Chris Barrie and Chris Evans where they drive recently modern cars and classic cars around Europe visiting tracks/museums and places of interest !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Countersteer]

And all that from the spyder - not the coupe. Impressive.

The great thing about these vids is that they are 'road tests'. They're telling you things that you might actually want to know instead of ridiculous analogies to a soft-rock soundtrack. Rapidly becoming my favourite way to learn about cars that I'll never be able to afford...

[DT398]

Bit presumptuous at the end to say 991 TS owners would probably want the kind of drama that the McLaren offers. I'm sure lots of them don't want the trousers-on-fire twitching and snappy oversteer that the 12c demonstrates on the track and it's all academic on the road anyway.

Despite the lame and pointless drag race, CH even says the Porsche is the better overall car in the end but that's not to say that both of them are not completely brilliant by most standards.

I'll buy the 911 but definitely won't feel the need to come on here and defend it to the death. It all depends what's right for you in the end but I'm happy to prefer the Porsche and that it's £50k cheaper.

[APOLO1]

DT398 said:

Bit presumptuous at the end to say 991 TS owners would probably want the kind of drama that the McLaren offers. I'm sure lots of them don't want the trousers-on-fire twitching and snappy oversteer that the 12c demonstrates on the track and it's all academic on the road anyway.

Despite the lame and pointless drag race, CH even says the Porsche is the better overall car in the end but that's not to say that both of them are not completely brilliant by most standards.

I'll buy the 911 but definitely won't feel the need to come on here and defend it to the death. It all depends what's right for you in the end but I'm happy to prefer the Porsche and that it's £50k cheaper.

But its not 50k cheaper, as tested its 110k cheaper and faster if the truth be told....Don't let the Facts get in the way of good story..eh C.......lol

[DT398]

Deleted due to iPad double post!

[DT398]

APOLO1 said:

But its not 50k cheaper, as tested its 110k cheaper and faster if the truth be told....Don't let the Facts get in the way of good story..eh C.......lol

You are at it again! Who cares in the end? I am a huge fan of the 991 and I just chucked £50k out there to make a point. £140k vs £190k, that was all. No need to get all defensive about it.

Edited by DT398 on Thursday 28th November 15:34

[APOLO1]

DT398 said:

You are at it again! Who cares in the end? I am a huge fan of the 991 and I just chucked £50k out there to make a point. £140k vs £190k, that was all. No need to get all defensive about it.

Edited by DT398 on Thursday 28th November 15:34

you are right no one cares...but your 50k point is over 100% out..on the cars tested...

[Dblue]

APOLO1 said:

DT398 said:

Bit presumptuous at the end to say 991 TS owners would probably want the kind of drama that the McLaren offers. I'm sure lots of them don't want the trousers-on-fire twitching and snappy oversteer that the 12c demonstrates on the track and it's all academic on the road anyway.

Despite the lame and pointless drag race, CH even says the Porsche is the better overall car in the end but that's not to say that both of them are not completely brilliant by most standards.

I'll buy the 911 but definitely won't feel the need to come on here and defend it to the death. It all depends what's right for you in the end but I'm happy to prefer the Porsche and that it's £50k cheaper.

But its not 50k cheaper, as tested its 110k cheaper and faster if the truth be told....Don't let the Facts get in the way of good story..eh C.......lol

But its not fair to say it has to be so much more is it.The "Facts" are the Coupe version of the 12C lists at around £176k and with even a modicum of restraint you can put the thing on your driveway for less than £195k. Thats NOT £110k more is it!

The 12C in the test is a heavily optioned up "Spyder". I wouldn't pay £243k for it either but lots of people seem to have money to burn in this market.

[GALLARDOGUY]

APOLO1 said:

CH, new low mate.

You. On PH. Talking of new lows.

Irony overload.

[DT398]

APOLO1 said:

you are right no one cares...but your 50k point is over 100% out..on the cars tested...

OK. Would you feel better if I wrote the the 991 was "quite a bit cheaper" than the 12c? It's not like there is a definitive set of numbers for each of these cars that will prove which one is "better" is it?

Do you know, by the way, if all this talk of quotas on the 991 turbo S by OPCs is BS or is there a genuine effort / strategy to control supply?

[Denorth]

can we ask moderators to remove footballers' wife from the topic? Those who say 911TTS is a Q-car...

they need to go back to their pink Bentleys and RRs and not talk about real world when they have little clue about it...

[APOLO1]

DT398 said:

OK. Would you feel better if I wrote the the 991 was "quite a bit cheaper" than the 12c? It's not like there is a definitive set of numbers for each of these cars that will prove which one is "better" is it?

Do you know, by the way, if all this talk of quotas on the 991 turbo S by OPCs is BS or is there a genuine effort / strategy to control supply?

I agree at the end of the day its down to individual tastes and requirements. with regard to nos ect I have actually raced a TTS against a 12c and 997Gt3,on track... who are better drivers than me.....They could not even get close.....

With regard to quotas ect. The best info I have is that OPCS have there own demos that are around, Albeit the next allocation for UK is Q214...