RE: VTEC just kicked in: PH Blog
Discussion
Escort Si-130 said:
+1
Not a fan of wringing it to the redline, rather the performance lower down. Also wringing it out in the vtec kicked in fashion - would this not wear the engine down quicker. Sure this must be a recipe for smoking engines due to increased wear on internals like piston rings, crankshaft bearings.
Honda do have a shocking reliability record don't they, so many engine failures!Not a fan of wringing it to the redline, rather the performance lower down. Also wringing it out in the vtec kicked in fashion - would this not wear the engine down quicker. Sure this must be a recipe for smoking engines due to increased wear on internals like piston rings, crankshaft bearings.
dukebox9reg said:
Why isnt it? You may want to read the rest of my posts and realise that was slightly tongue in cheek.
As i've said the vtec thing is good but as a 20 year old (or 20 year old mentality). Not a 30year+ with a child and a 'professional' job.
Maybe i'm getting old before my years but feeling the need to bang my head against a limiter for the same performance I can get from turbo engine in day to day driving has past me. (Im talking day to day hatchbacks etc not supercars, thats a different kettle)
The engines are fun but not enough for me to get my rose tints out.
I'm 34 and drive an S2000 as my only car. I use the bike to go to work, so it's mainly a fun car though. It looks to me like you're only looking at it from a 'day to day' driving standpoint. A lot of us here are petrolheads and will regularly take the car out for a hoon just for the hell of it or take the long way home to enjoy some nice roads. These kind of engines are fantastic for that kind of driving! As a comfy dayly communter there are much better cars and a turbo engine might be a better choice.As i've said the vtec thing is good but as a 20 year old (or 20 year old mentality). Not a 30year+ with a child and a 'professional' job.
Maybe i'm getting old before my years but feeling the need to bang my head against a limiter for the same performance I can get from turbo engine in day to day driving has past me. (Im talking day to day hatchbacks etc not supercars, thats a different kettle)
The engines are fun but not enough for me to get my rose tints out.
Jurgen said:
dukebox9reg said:
Why isnt it? You may want to read the rest of my posts and realise that was slightly tongue in cheek.
As i've said the vtec thing is good but as a 20 year old (or 20 year old mentality). Not a 30year+ with a child and a 'professional' job.
Maybe i'm getting old before my years but feeling the need to bang my head against a limiter for the same performance I can get from turbo engine in day to day driving has past me. (Im talking day to day hatchbacks etc not supercars, thats a different kettle)
The engines are fun but not enough for me to get my rose tints out.
I'm 34 and drive an S2000 as my only car. I use the bike to go to work, so it's mainly a fun car though. It looks to me like you're only looking at it from a 'day to day' driving standpoint. A lot of us here are petrolheads and will regularly take the car out for a hoon just for the hell of it or take the long way home to enjoy some nice roads. These kind of engines are fantastic for that kind of driving! As a comfy dayly communter there are much better cars and a turbo engine might be a better choice.As i've said the vtec thing is good but as a 20 year old (or 20 year old mentality). Not a 30year+ with a child and a 'professional' job.
Maybe i'm getting old before my years but feeling the need to bang my head against a limiter for the same performance I can get from turbo engine in day to day driving has past me. (Im talking day to day hatchbacks etc not supercars, thats a different kettle)
The engines are fun but not enough for me to get my rose tints out.
I dont feel the need to do this now with an 8k+ redline. As a secondary car yes and the S2000 etc would fit that bill as I would be driving for the exact purpose of ringing its neck. But a Civic as a primary or secondary car with a screaming engine doesnt work for me. As I said before, a Civic type R with a turbo lump does.
Surely the fact that somebody who has not taken to buying into the brand (I have tried so hard with various test drives and weekend use of friends CTR's etc) is now seriously debating buying one is what Honda needs in this country.
How many people hankering over a N/A Civic would get one nowadays really. People on Pistonheads bang on about the GT86 being their perfect car etc and that its what they've been asking for, for all these years blagh blagh. Ive seen 3. Seen a lot more Megane RS's....
Kozy said:
Honda do have a shocking reliability record don't they, so many engine failures!
My EP3 had done about 85k miles by the time I sold it to my brother, 4+ years in my ownership consisting of a fair bit of err.. spirited driving. And no... it doesn't smoke, it doesn't rattle, and it still goes very well thank you. As long as they're warmed up and serviced as they should then you shouldn't encounter any problems. Like I said, in the 4 years I owned it I only had to change brake pads, discs and a spring snapped; normal wear and tear...
dukebox9reg said:
Surely the fact that somebody who has not taken to buying into the brand (I have tried so hard with various test drives and weekend use of friends CTR's etc) is now seriously debating buying one is what Honda needs in this country.
I bought a brand new EP3 in 2002, for the engine and gearbox. If I were to go down the hot hatch route again, I'd be more likely to buy a Renault for the chassis - with another identikit turbo four just like everybody else's, I see nothing special to attract me to Honda.Kozy said:
dukebox9reg said:
As i've said the vtec thing is good but as a 20 year old (or 20 year old mentality). Not a 30year+ with a child and a 'professional' job.
I'm 28 with a nipper and a professional job. I still enjoy every oppourtunity to nut it in my ATR. When I'm not nutting it, it pootles about like any other 2 litre NASP engine, which is more than enough.If you need to use 200bhp constantly, that says more about your driving that the car.
Preferring more readily accessible power in a road car to being a rev nut does not imply in any means to my driving style.
I think you need to think of more constructive arguments before going for the ever intelligent personal insults.
Had mine almost 6 years now, still makes me grin !
They really aren't slow and tiresome under 5k, on my drive to work and back i don't even get to go over 4k ! Unless im stuck behind some numpty doing 20mph under the speed limit.
I find it perfectly fine for every type of driving, although 1 trip to Cornwall a year is enough for me
Its no motorway muncher !
Only mod on mine is an induction kit, it can bring out our silly side, but oh it does sound nice
Edit - Oh and i went 31 this year
They really aren't slow and tiresome under 5k, on my drive to work and back i don't even get to go over 4k ! Unless im stuck behind some numpty doing 20mph under the speed limit.
I find it perfectly fine for every type of driving, although 1 trip to Cornwall a year is enough for me
Its no motorway muncher !Only mod on mine is an induction kit, it can bring out our silly side, but oh it does sound nice
Edit - Oh and i went 31 this year
HorneyMX5 said:
FN2 owner here.
I find the lack or torque comments a bit unfair. I drive mine on the daily grind to work and only ever feel the need to ring it's neck for giggles. Normal over takes, nipping out at junctions, joing DCs etc are perfectly easy keeping it below 5K RPM and off Vtec. It's just like driving a normal 2.0 NA petrol hatchback. And isn't that the whole point? Keep it in the normal zone and it's just a normal (albeit a bit stiffly sprung) car, put it in the crazy zone and it's a crazy car.
Modern turbo cars are quicker, more frugal and have more accesable power. You can't argue against it, it's fact. They do, in my opinion though, lack character. Most of the engines just feel like a wooly whooshy thing under the bonnet, a slighlty revvier and less noisey diesel. But then these days most people under 25 learn't to drive ina small diesel hatchback and to them the characteristics of an NA engine seem rubbish as they're used to instant torque from almost idle.
Oh dear, I appear to be getting old.
I completely agree. A lot of this is also down to gearing, these civic type r's run a 4.7:1 final drive, so infact the gearing is a lot higher than your normal turbo car. I know a few people who have turbo cars and the gearing is so long its a bit boring! That and the power just dies off in the top end and when you put those two together it doesn't really do anything for me! The close ratio gbox and high revving performance really engage me and it makes the experience so much more enjoyable.I find the lack or torque comments a bit unfair. I drive mine on the daily grind to work and only ever feel the need to ring it's neck for giggles. Normal over takes, nipping out at junctions, joing DCs etc are perfectly easy keeping it below 5K RPM and off Vtec. It's just like driving a normal 2.0 NA petrol hatchback. And isn't that the whole point? Keep it in the normal zone and it's just a normal (albeit a bit stiffly sprung) car, put it in the crazy zone and it's a crazy car.
Modern turbo cars are quicker, more frugal and have more accesable power. You can't argue against it, it's fact. They do, in my opinion though, lack character. Most of the engines just feel like a wooly whooshy thing under the bonnet, a slighlty revvier and less noisey diesel. But then these days most people under 25 learn't to drive ina small diesel hatchback and to them the characteristics of an NA engine seem rubbish as they're used to instant torque from almost idle.
Oh dear, I appear to be getting old.
Another gripe I hear about alot is 'lack of torque', I think this mostly could be in their head more than it is an actual problem, again, gearing makes up for this as torque per gear at the wheels is what pushes you down the road, but I also think if you scribbled out the numbers on the RPM gauge and wrote 6k in its place then Journalists and people all over would be singing its praises at how torquey the engine feels!
Whats up with people complaining about having to change gear? Is it really that difficult? I think Honda drivers are spoilt with a crisp & effortless FWD gearbox that is enjoyable to use, perhaps this is why we don't moan about having to drop a couple cogs? lol
Edited by Mudgey on Tuesday 3rd December 11:44
I think to get on with high revving engines in general, you need to have a proactive kind of driving style - you plan ahead, you choose the gear for the acceleration you need. If you have a reactive driving style and want to stomp and go, you won't get on with them.
The point about how much performance you need to use round town is that you don't need a 200bhp hatchback there, not unless you are driving like a knob. So whether you need to use high revs or just a heavy foot makes no difference, because you won't be doing it anyway.
The point about how much performance you need to use round town is that you don't need a 200bhp hatchback there, not unless you are driving like a knob. So whether you need to use high revs or just a heavy foot makes no difference, because you won't be doing it anyway.
Kozy said:
dukebox9reg said:
As i've said the vtec thing is good but as a 20 year old (or 20 year old mentality). Not a 30year+ with a child and a 'professional' job.
I'm 28 with a nipper and a professional job. I still enjoy every oppourtunity to nut it in my ATR. When I'm not nutting it, it pootles about like any other 2 litre NASP engine, which is more than enough.If you need to use 200bhp constantly, that says more about your driving that the car.
Kozy said:
Honda do have a shocking reliability record don't they, so many engine failures!
It's just terrible isn't it,Largest manufacturer of internal combustion engines in the world and one of every 1 in 344 of their motors fail. Half the rate of Toyota
It's just not good enough, they really need to sort themselves out
This is how hard it is to kill the engine in my Civic the D16Y7. To give you a clue as to how long it holds out, the video is in three parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1Aqi4Jgyqo
Edited by hedges88 on Tuesday 3rd December 11:45
I had a 1996 Honda Accord 2.2 VTEC, it was astonishing. Unfortunately I had to get rid of it as replacing the rotten fuel tank would have cost a fortune, as it was a mission to get to. The engine was so sweet and massively powerful throughout its life and all I really did was change the oil and filter every 4.5K miles. I changed the discs to be fair. It was on 236,000 miles and the engine would have continued on forever - never smoked, no issues at all and didn't miss a beat. I miss my old green, semi-rotten Beast!
Love the ek9's, dc2's & s2000's & was planning on getting a dc2 before redundancy. Great fun cars with great n/a engines. The Toyota had good lift aswell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxBwY3FXydY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxBwY3FXydY
Having been a ITR (DC2) devotee for a few years I can only agree about the willingness of the engine to rev and sheer pleasure of making the most of it - even better back in the day because there wasn't so much around at the time to keep up with it.
The whole thing about engines that rev though - I'd already spent 10 years of driving cars with engines that would rev way past 8500rpm - past 10000rpm even and we aren't talking bike engines either. Fiat's old sohc engine would happily do so without any modifications and one of the reasons I stuck with them was I'd been unable to find much that could substitute the fun to be had out of such versatile, free-revving mechanicals. The problem I am faced again with now, especially given the redline on cars seems to be getting lower (so much for progress)
The whole thing about engines that rev though - I'd already spent 10 years of driving cars with engines that would rev way past 8500rpm - past 10000rpm even and we aren't talking bike engines either. Fiat's old sohc engine would happily do so without any modifications and one of the reasons I stuck with them was I'd been unable to find much that could substitute the fun to be had out of such versatile, free-revving mechanicals. The problem I am faced again with now, especially given the redline on cars seems to be getting lower (so much for progress)
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