RE: Rickard Rydell's BTCC Mondeo to be sold
Discussion
Chris Eyre said:
For me, the NGTC engineering is a joke. Yes it had to get cheaper, but that was S2000. Now it's gone full shadow car. Only the BTCC history and PR elevates it as the premier series, else otherwise as I wrote, it's Eurocars with tube chassis all over again - and that lasted a handful of seasons before it died.
It relies on the public's total ignorance of what they're looking at. With NGTC, what exists between the front and rear spec subframes is near irrelevant to the performance of the cars, bar setting wheelbase length. They could all be Ladas and Skodas and the racing would be effectively the same.
The proof of that would be to put 20 Lada bodies between spec subframes, put identical livery on them all to the livery the teams use now - and watch the audience melt away.
It's a sleight of hand, and it relies on factors beyond the cars themselves to keep it interesting.
You could say the same thing for the cars in the late 90s steering racks bolted to engines/ roof line chopped on the volovs twin brake assembly I cant remember seeing them on the road cars of the time also the mid engine layout aswel which most of the super tourers were the engine sat behind the front wheels. So you could say nothing much as changed apart from the cost.
The final point is that the manafactures all though was good to have at the beginning soon pushed out the independents (which is what btcc as always been about) which lead to the year 2000 and only 3 manufactures left with very few indi due to the ridicules cost of it, it had to be changed.
S2000 although more road car based was still very expensive to build and the btcc relied on hand me downs from the wtcc which when you only have bmw/ seat/ Chevrolet that supplied cars at the end and with very few new s2000 cars built for the btcc only 4 cars which was the civic/Vectra/and the 2 versions of the focus.
That is why in 2009 with lack of new cars on the market the ngtc regs were born to make building new cars for smaller teams easer and it's worked without a shadow of a dought if btcc followed with the same rules as the wtcc we would have a very small grid with not many different models on the grid.
And the last point the btcc was never meant to be an international series which what it become in the 90s it was meant for wealthy men to go racing alongside manufacture cars and some well known drivers to show case the British car industry at the time to sell cars the only reason the 90s happened was there were no world touring car championships at the time so the manufacture went into the btcc to show case to the world.
However, the mass motor racing public seem to watch it, which is fine by the rulemakers and promoters provided they maintain an that engaged audience.
It relies on the public's total ignorance of what they're looking at. With NGTC, what exists between the front and rear spec subframes is near irrelevant to the performance of the cars, bar setting wheelbase length. They could all be Ladas and Skodas and the racing would be effectively the same.
The proof of that would be to put 20 Lada bodies between spec subframes, put identical livery on them all to the livery the teams use now - and watch the audience melt away.
It's a sleight of hand, and it relies on factors beyond the cars themselves to keep it interesting.
You could say the same thing for the cars in the late 90s steering racks bolted to engines/ roof line chopped on the volovs twin brake assembly I cant remember seeing them on the road cars of the time also the mid engine layout aswel which most of the super tourers were the engine sat behind the front wheels. So you could say nothing much as changed apart from the cost.
The final point is that the manafactures all though was good to have at the beginning soon pushed out the independents (which is what btcc as always been about) which lead to the year 2000 and only 3 manufactures left with very few indi due to the ridicules cost of it, it had to be changed.
S2000 although more road car based was still very expensive to build and the btcc relied on hand me downs from the wtcc which when you only have bmw/ seat/ Chevrolet that supplied cars at the end and with very few new s2000 cars built for the btcc only 4 cars which was the civic/Vectra/and the 2 versions of the focus.
That is why in 2009 with lack of new cars on the market the ngtc regs were born to make building new cars for smaller teams easer and it's worked without a shadow of a dought if btcc followed with the same rules as the wtcc we would have a very small grid with not many different models on the grid.
And the last point the btcc was never meant to be an international series which what it become in the 90s it was meant for wealthy men to go racing alongside manufacture cars and some well known drivers to show case the British car industry at the time to sell cars the only reason the 90s happened was there were no world touring car championships at the time so the manufacture went into the btcc to show case to the world.
However, the mass motor racing public seem to watch it, which is fine by the rulemakers and promoters provided they maintain an that engaged audience.
Edited by Chris Eyre on Friday 10th January 14:51
Some more 90s goodness here - by chance I found the footage of the race that is always missing from the season review tapes due to copyright: the British GP support race.
And what a race it was!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQFrdVCqNkE
And what a race it was!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQFrdVCqNkE
More people should have supported Rouse when he was trying to get the v8 silhouette series off the ground.
All the cars with the same drive train, spec sub frames at each end, where do we see this now.........
His was going to be rwd with a proper salon body.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/33516
Why did it not get approval, because it would have wiped out touring cars.
All the cars with the same drive train, spec sub frames at each end, where do we see this now.........
His was going to be rwd with a proper salon body.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/33516
Why did it not get approval, because it would have wiped out touring cars.
Shadow R1 said:
More people should have supported Rouse when he was trying to get the v8 silhouette series off the ground.
All the cars with the same drive train, spec sub frames at each end, where do we see this now.........
His was going to be rwd with a proper salon body.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/33516
Why did it not get approval, because it would have wiped out touring cars.
Because nobody wanted it, it was hard enough getting 20-24 cars on the grid come the mid 00s if this had happened both series would have been in single figures. Also at the time ascar was still around with v8? silhouette basically.All the cars with the same drive train, spec sub frames at each end, where do we see this now.........
His was going to be rwd with a proper salon body.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/33516
Why did it not get approval, because it would have wiped out touring cars.
technically ngtc is not a silhouette series as it uses a standard road going car, well if you see from tony gilham with the Passat both were built from 2009 vw passats with the mid section remained and the front and rear subframes bolted on. The engines aren't the same yes there is the toca unit but around half of the teams are using manufacture based engine, ford with mountnue/ Honda/bmw use niel brown engines/ proton are changing to Mitsubishi egines/ dyno jet did use Toyota engines not sure if autosport international will continue the same engine. Chevorlet are using rml engines if im correct.
This is interesting - whoever is selling the car is making a big profit if it does for for the estimated figure:
http://www.motorsportads.com/recently-sold/6997.ht...
It seems one can pick up an ST car for around 25-50k depending ont he car, its success in period and the spares package. Thats a lot of very highly developed car for the money! If only I had 25k lying spare....
http://www.motorsportads.com/recently-sold/6997.ht...
It seems one can pick up an ST car for around 25-50k depending ont he car, its success in period and the spares package. Thats a lot of very highly developed car for the money! If only I had 25k lying spare....
Zammy said:
90's kid here too and great memories from this thread, Thompsons 98' Accord was always my fave...now where's my copy of Toca? I'm sure I still have it!
The good memories. 
Toca 1/2 On the psone was good for it's time along with Gran Turismo 1/2. Now they've turned into the crazy handling Grid (think they got the physics for that from Vrally if you remember that game!) and GT5/6. They were ok up to Grid/GT5 IMO.iloveboost said:
The good memories. Toca 1/2 On the psone was good for it's time along with Gran Turismo 1/2. Now they've turned into the crazy handling Grid (think they got the physics for that from Vrally if you remember that game!) and GT5/6. They were ok up to Grid/GT5 IMO.
gt6 is better than gt5, and getting better with the updates! Toca 1/2 were ace though, still to be beaten in terms of intensity of racing Toca 1/2 On the psone was good for it's time along with Gran Turismo 1/2. Now they've turned into the crazy handling Grid (think they got the physics for that from Vrally if you remember that game!) and GT5/6. They were ok up to Grid/GT5 IMO.Chris Eyre said:
Krikkit said:
Thing is, with the extensive re-engineering that went on with the S2000 cars, most of the original character of the cars in terms of handling etc was completely negated.
I disagree.Take a Seat Leon S2000 BTCC front hub, that's Plato's steed (petrol & TDI) from 2005-2008. It's a production hub, modified. Commonplace to trackdayers and club racers, it has a ball joint spacer for geometry correction and a caliper adapter. It has a neat modification to tie the steering arm to the balljoint. That's all there is to it.
Not even close to Super Tourer ludicrousness, and not extensively reengineered in my view.
zebedee said:
iloveboost said:
The good memories. Toca 1/2 On the psone was good for it's time along with Gran Turismo 1/2. Now they've turned into the crazy handling Grid (think they got the physics for that from Vrally if you remember that game!) and GT5/6. They were ok up to Grid/GT5 IMO.
gt6 is better than gt5, and getting better with the updates! Toca 1/2 were ace though, still to be beaten in terms of intensity of racing Toca 1/2 On the psone was good for it's time along with Gran Turismo 1/2. Now they've turned into the crazy handling Grid (think they got the physics for that from Vrally if you remember that game!) and GT5/6. They were ok up to Grid/GT5 IMO.So going back to the original thread topic - forgive me if there is a link elsewhere - this Mondeo was sold for £103,500 last weekend at Race Retro:
http://www.dep-o.co.uk/news/record-race-retro-sale...
Strong money for one of the most developed cars going with a £10.5m budget behind it and sister cars in 2000.
http://www.dep-o.co.uk/news/record-race-retro-sale...
Strong money for one of the most developed cars going with a £10.5m budget behind it and sister cars in 2000.
David Richards (Prodrive) said (in the recent ITV Legends programme) that it was one of the most advanced race cars they have ever produced, and that is quite something coming from an outfit as diverse and impressive as Prodrive. I think someone got themselves a bargain! Running it might prove otherwise...
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