RE: Ariel Atom titanium chassis new details
Discussion
Singleseatracer said:
A huge amount of effort and cost for a road car, the result is still hugely compromised, if the quest is for ultimate performance then buy a racing car and experience a focused machine designed for the purpose, expensive nonsense
Have you ever driven an Atom? The last word I'd use to describe them is compromised...canucklehead said:
JonnyVTEC said:
MrQuick said:
Can someone explain why you would not go carbon fibre instead of titanium?
It would be just as light and stiff.
I always thought the whole point to use titanium is in high heat applications because of its extremely high melting point?
It would be just as light and stiff.
I always thought the whole point to use titanium is in high heat applications because of its extremely high melting point?
No good in compression loads, CF works as a tub and a CF Atom would make such a good tub a rubber duck would need to drive it.
Titanium has qualities other than high temp. Good material to hold engines to air raft wings, just need to forge to near to the shape you want as machining it is a total pain.
d to mill or turn and the don't work it hard enough.Use a properly sharp tool with a big depth of cut and a lot more load than seems sane and you'll be fine.
I've seen a hand ground HSS part off tool last for hours on Titainium.
that guy did make me laugh, when I saw that the third comment was about his jeans had to laugh again. Excellent!sherbert90 said:
Singleseatracer said:
A huge amount of effort and cost for a road car, the result is still hugely compromised, if the quest is for ultimate performance then buy a racing car and experience a focused machine designed for the purpose, expensive nonsense
Have you ever driven an Atom? The last word I'd use to describe them is compromised...redroadster said:
Vastly overpriced will be even more so now ,how much does some tubing cost to bend and weld ? plenty of suckers will buy though.
It costs a lot to buy proper drawn Ti (not the cheap rolled chinese stuff on budget bikes). The skill and equipment to work it properly is far from cheap. Hardly anything is built to last these days. When someone actually makes the effort we get a thread full of moaners. No wonder 99.9% of companies just make cheap disposable tat these days.k-ink said:
redroadster said:
Vastly overpriced will be even more so now ,how much does some tubing cost to bend and weld ? plenty of suckers will buy though.
It costs a lot to buy proper drawn Ti (not the cheap rolled chinese stuff on budget bikes). The skill and equipment to work it properly is far from cheap. Hardly anything is built to last these days. When someone actually makes the effort we get a thread full of moaners. No wonder 99.9% of companies just make cheap disposable tat these days.There is a lot of over egging of the difficulty in manufacturing in Ti going on here.
Welding Ti is not much more difficult than welding some Stainless Steels. It can be machined fairly easily these days.
I work for BAE building these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M777_howitzer and therefore probably seen more Ti fabrication, machining and manufacture than most.
Oh, and we don't weld it in a big plastic bag either.
Welding Ti is not much more difficult than welding some Stainless Steels. It can be machined fairly easily these days.
I work for BAE building these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M777_howitzer and therefore probably seen more Ti fabrication, machining and manufacture than most.
Oh, and we don't weld it in a big plastic bag either.
Autocar from March:
Titanium is incredibly strong – it has the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any metal – but it's also extremely difficult to fabricate. If exposed to oxygen during welding, titanium combusts before it melts, hence the necessity for a complicated, argon-filled welding chamber.
The frame and the welding process have been developed alongside Frome-based Caged Laser Engineering, and part-funded for by the Technology Strategy Board’s Niche Vehicle Programme fund.
Ariel's Simon Saunders told Autocar that, when development is complete, "We'd like to do a limited edition. It would be a brilliant track car. The alternative would be to offer it as an option on the range."
Titanium is incredibly strong – it has the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any metal – but it's also extremely difficult to fabricate. If exposed to oxygen during welding, titanium combusts before it melts, hence the necessity for a complicated, argon-filled welding chamber.
The frame and the welding process have been developed alongside Frome-based Caged Laser Engineering, and part-funded for by the Technology Strategy Board’s Niche Vehicle Programme fund.
Ariel's Simon Saunders told Autocar that, when development is complete, "We'd like to do a limited edition. It would be a brilliant track car. The alternative would be to offer it as an option on the range."
JonnyVTEC said:
Autocar from March:
Titanium is incredibly strong – it has the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any metal – but it's also extremely difficult to fabricate. If exposed to oxygen during welding, titanium combusts before it melts, hence the necessity for a complicated, argon-filled welding chamber.
The frame and the welding process have been developed alongside Frome-based Caged Laser Engineering, and part-funded for by the Technology Strategy Board’s Niche Vehicle Programme fund.
Ariel's Simon Saunders told Autocar that, when development is complete, "We'd like to do a limited edition. It would be a brilliant track car. The alternative would be to offer it as an option on the range."
A 'brilliantly expensive to fix' track car. Titanium is incredibly strong – it has the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any metal – but it's also extremely difficult to fabricate. If exposed to oxygen during welding, titanium combusts before it melts, hence the necessity for a complicated, argon-filled welding chamber.
The frame and the welding process have been developed alongside Frome-based Caged Laser Engineering, and part-funded for by the Technology Strategy Board’s Niche Vehicle Programme fund.
Ariel's Simon Saunders told Autocar that, when development is complete, "We'd like to do a limited edition. It would be a brilliant track car. The alternative would be to offer it as an option on the range."
Fools and money
JonnyVTEC said:
Autocar from March:
Titanium is incredibly strong – it has the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any metal – but it's also extremely difficult to fabricate. If exposed to oxygen during welding, titanium combusts before it melts, hence the necessity for a complicated, argon-filled welding chamber.
The frame and the welding process have been developed alongside Frome-based Caged Laser Engineering, and part-funded for by the Technology Strategy Board’s Niche Vehicle Programme fund.
Ariel's Simon Saunders told Autocar that, when development is complete, "We'd like to do a limited edition. It would be a brilliant track car. The alternative would be to offer it as an option on the range."
Wrong material property hilighted. It's stiffness to weight ratio that's important. Steel is the stiffest. Just make it thinner, and prevent buckling. Titanium is incredibly strong – it has the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any metal – but it's also extremely difficult to fabricate. If exposed to oxygen during welding, titanium combusts before it melts, hence the necessity for a complicated, argon-filled welding chamber.
The frame and the welding process have been developed alongside Frome-based Caged Laser Engineering, and part-funded for by the Technology Strategy Board’s Niche Vehicle Programme fund.
Ariel's Simon Saunders told Autocar that, when development is complete, "We'd like to do a limited edition. It would be a brilliant track car. The alternative would be to offer it as an option on the range."
Max_Torque said:
Gary C said:
And titanium is corrosion resistant too, which is nice.
At low temperature. Read some of the stories from the SR-71 for strange things that start to happen when it gets hot! ;-)
We use titanium tubes in our condenser with sea water, 25 years and no corrosion.
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