Tyre sidewall stiffness. Do you notice/care about it?
Discussion
jamieduff1981 said:
Yes I notice. In fairness it does need to be a fairly extreme end of the spectrum, but by way of example, I absolutely hated the internet hero that was the Toyo T1R. There is a balance to be struck though. Rock hard tyres aren't ideal either.
I likeT1Rs because they give a much gentler break away when they start to slide. Tango13 said:
I fitted some Goodyears Eagle F1's to my e39 M5 and the soft sidewall completly ruined the handling, a mate who has the same car took mine out and was visibly whiter. It felt like the entire rear suspension was falling out.
I'm currently running Vredestiens with a very stiff sidewall and it's perfect.
totally agree with you on this with the F1's - i even put a video of them on youtube and spoke to Goodyear as I couldn't believe the sidewalls could be that soft, but they confirmed the Assymetric 2s do have a soft sidewall I'm currently running Vredestiens with a very stiff sidewall and it's perfect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u5srFYLkD8
Bill said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Yes I notice. In fairness it does need to be a fairly extreme end of the spectrum, but by way of example, I absolutely hated the internet hero that was the Toyo T1R. There is a balance to be struck though. Rock hard tyres aren't ideal either.
I likeT1Rs because they give a much gentler break away when they start to slide. Great for gentle breakaway, terrible for cornering grip and wear.
Captain Muppet said:
It's not just a tyre sidewall issue with T1Rs - the tread blocks in the centre of the tyre are very narrow so they fold over very easily under side load. Fine under braking or acceleration, terrible for cornering. The MX5 race series only used them when scrubbed down to 4mm tread. (I found this out after buying some after an internet recommendation then asking one of the racers how they coped with them ).
Great for gentle breakaway, terrible for cornering grip and wear.
Interesting, ta. I did think they didn't have the ultimate cornering grip of the ContiSports Contacts they replaced, but they weren't hugely worse IMO.Great for gentle breakaway, terrible for cornering grip and wear.
jon- said:
I noticed it so much I started www.tyrereviews.co.uk
There's more going on than just sidewall stiffness to give you the feel you talk about, but I agree it's a huge deal for me.
I actually prefer the Bridgestone S001s on my M3 to the Michelin Pilot Super Sport due to the feel, even though the raw grip is lower.
ETA: I've been trying to think of a good way of measuring sidewall stiffness and charting it for the public, I can't think of a good way of measuring it accurately though.
That was you? There's more going on than just sidewall stiffness to give you the feel you talk about, but I agree it's a huge deal for me.
I actually prefer the Bridgestone S001s on my M3 to the Michelin Pilot Super Sport due to the feel, even though the raw grip is lower.
ETA: I've been trying to think of a good way of measuring sidewall stiffness and charting it for the public, I can't think of a good way of measuring it accurately though.
Well, I'll fly in the face of what's already been posted about Goodyear Assymetrics, my Evo 8 comes as standard with Yokohamas with rock hard sidewalls, and all it does for that car is ruin the ride.
The ride is beyond comparison now it has Goodyears on, the handling remains typically Evo, but it doesn't tramline now, and it doesn't shake your fillings out! If a car's decently set up from the factory, suspension wise, it would seem that tyre wall stiffness needn't be such an issue.
The ride is beyond comparison now it has Goodyears on, the handling remains typically Evo, but it doesn't tramline now, and it doesn't shake your fillings out! If a car's decently set up from the factory, suspension wise, it would seem that tyre wall stiffness needn't be such an issue.
Kozy said:
Fantastic website that is, bravo!
A sidewall stiffness rating would be fantastic. Can you not just measure the average spring rate with the tyre off the rim? Maybe an average rate and also a range?
It's called load rating, and all tyres have it.A sidewall stiffness rating would be fantastic. Can you not just measure the average spring rate with the tyre off the rim? Maybe an average rate and also a range?
Fast Hondas have typically been very fussy over tyres. I remember with my EP3, it was great on the OEM Bridgestones (in terms of construction, whereas the compound was very temperature sensitive) but, for example, Goodyear Eagles were atrocious, as the car tramlined everywhere and direction changes were terrible. Not the tyres fault per se, just the way the car was set up.
I have absolutely found this on my mk4 1.8t Golf with Uniroyal Rainexperts.
They are the correct size for the car, with the correct PSI, but they look under inflated, and steering feels a little sloppy.
I have now increased 4psi over recommended un loaded. 32rear 35 front.
Is increasing the preassure a bad idea? as i dont want to induce wear.
Help here would be greatly appreciated. The car is rarely abused or driven spirited. I just wanted a good rain tyre vs. value.
Paul
They are the correct size for the car, with the correct PSI, but they look under inflated, and steering feels a little sloppy.
I have now increased 4psi over recommended un loaded. 32rear 35 front.
Is increasing the preassure a bad idea? as i dont want to induce wear.
Help here would be greatly appreciated. The car is rarely abused or driven spirited. I just wanted a good rain tyre vs. value.
Paul
TonyRPH said:
Kozy said:
Fantastic website that is, bravo!
A sidewall stiffness rating would be fantastic. Can you not just measure the average spring rate with the tyre off the rim? Maybe an average rate and also a range?
It's called load rating, and all tyres have it.A sidewall stiffness rating would be fantastic. Can you not just measure the average spring rate with the tyre off the rim? Maybe an average rate and also a range?
TonyRPH said:
Kozy said:
Fantastic website that is, bravo!
A sidewall stiffness rating would be fantastic. Can you not just measure the average spring rate with the tyre off the rim? Maybe an average rate and also a range?
It's called load rating, and all tyres have it.A sidewall stiffness rating would be fantastic. Can you not just measure the average spring rate with the tyre off the rim? Maybe an average rate and also a range?
Sidewall stiffness is measured by deflection - although stidewall stiffness is a bit of a misnomer because so much of this is actually influenced by the bead and bead apex.
jon- said:
When comparing tyres across brands, load rating gives zero indication of sidewall strength.
How can that be right......as far as commercial vehicles are concerned, you can be prosecuted for having the wrong load rating on a van....if there wasn't an industry standard for load, you changed your tyres to a different brand with ostensibly the same ( say 95 ) rating, and they failed because they weren't as strong as the ones you'd replaced, where would you be? They may have different characteristics, but the inherent strength of a given rating, and therefore the stiffness, has to be standard across all makes, surely? Not having a go, just interested in the explanation?
Edited by Heaveho on Monday 20th January 18:12
Heaveho said:
Heaveho said:
How can that be right......as far as commercial vehicles are concerned, you can be prosecuted for having the wrong load rating on a van....if there wasn't an industry standard for load, you changed your tyres to a different brand with ostensibly the same ( say 95 ) rating, and they failed because they weren't as strong as the ones you'd replaced, where would you be?
They may have different characteristics, but the inherent strength of a given rating, and therefore the stiffness, has to be standard across all makes, surely?
Not having a go, but I'm interested to see the explanation?They may have different characteristics, but the inherent strength of a given rating, and therefore the stiffness, has to be standard across all makes, surely?
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