why did Mercedes of a certain era rust?
Discussion
DaveCWK said:
IIRC it was a combination of lower quality steel sourced on the advise of penny pinching accountants and the switch to water-based eco paint.
Please please please can we stop blaming accountants for everything.. (this isn't directed at you, but at every other person who finds it easy to blame someone whose job they don't understand).The media, or some comedian latched onto this about 10 years ago and its getting boring now.
Its not the accountants to blame, its the shareholders on their eternal drive to maximise their wealth. The accounatant helps the business look for ways to reduce costs, not ruin a company. I have never worked at a company run by accountants, and I don't think they exist in the real world. Its the CEO / Business functions that obey shareholders, and ultimately decisions rest with them, so please blame them!
Happy to be proved wrong by the myriad of keyboard warriors who sit in boardrooms taking their orders from accountants.
I have been reliably informed by a paint specialist (That wasn't his title but I can't remember the exact one) from DuPont that this happened.
He said Mercedes changed their paint process. It allowed the paint to lift of the metal and moisture to creep in, which is why it's on the edges - bonnet, wings etc. Then it was game over.
It wasn't really a cost thing just they were trying different things to be more efficient (cost?). The metal was the same quality they'd always used.
It was just a coincidence it occurred the same time as other cock ups.
He said Mercedes changed their paint process. It allowed the paint to lift of the metal and moisture to creep in, which is why it's on the edges - bonnet, wings etc. Then it was game over.
It wasn't really a cost thing just they were trying different things to be more efficient (cost?). The metal was the same quality they'd always used.
It was just a coincidence it occurred the same time as other cock ups.
Edited by GTIR on Friday 31st January 09:34
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GTIR said:
I have been reliably informed by a paint specialist (That wasn't his title but I can't remember the exact one) from DuPont that this happened.
He said Mercedes changed their paint process. It allowed the paint to lift of the metal and moisture to creep in, which is why it's on the edges - bonnet, wings etc. Then it was game over.
I can believe that. The paint on a W210 is really, unbelievably thin - it flakes off very easily. And the metal wasn't galvanised. He said Mercedes changed their paint process. It allowed the paint to lift of the metal and moisture to creep in, which is why it's on the edges - bonnet, wings etc. Then it was game over.
Dr Interceptor said:
SuperHangOn said:
I can believe that. The paint on a W210 is really, unbelievably thin - it flakes off very easily. And the metal wasn't galvanised.
No. The paint on some W210's was thin. It's not on mine.
St John Smythe said:
Probably had a respray at some point in it's life. Majority of w210s look like they've spent ten years at the bottom of the sea
Nope... Bought it at two years old from a friend who had owned the car from new.We've put 130k miles on it, and it has never seen a body shop.
Fastdruid said:
So they slashed the build costs and ruined MB's reputation for being 'bullet proof' and reliable.
No, they were still that, they just rusted.Edited by Fastdruid on Thursday 23 January 10:26
They have won awards for being ecologically advanced, this points to possible reasons connected with recycling steel and 'friendly' paint.
Dr Interceptor said:
SuperHangOn said:
I can believe that. The paint on a W210 is really, unbelievably thin - it flakes off very easily. And the metal wasn't galvanised.
No. The paint on some W210's was thin. It's not on mine.
Dr Interceptor said:
St John Smythe said:
Probably had a respray at some point in it's life. Majority of w210s look like they've spent ten years at the bottom of the sea
Nope... Bought it at two years old from a friend who had owned the car from new.We've put 130k miles on it, and it has never seen a body shop.
surveyor said:
Not sure on the thickness on mine, but it's going on the arches. Will need some pre-action treatment this summer. Sad, but not unexpected.
Shame our Gold ones aren't immune then :PI'll have to give mine a good clean at some point (it's normally just given to the local Eastern Europeans to wash) and check it over. Serviced and MOT'd yesterday though, so all good for another year.
GrizzlyBear said:
I seem to remember reading a few of the VW models weren't Galvanised in the 90s, but I think they switched back to Galvanised metal rather sharpish, hence why you see loads of VWs from the early 2000s.
Of course, the big question is have Merc changed their ways? If I buy a 5 year old merc, what are the chances of it rusting in the next decade.
Mk4 Golfs (late 90s up to mid 00s) love to rot, as do their Audi half brothers. The late model cars aren't much better than the early ones. Of course, the big question is have Merc changed their ways? If I buy a 5 year old merc, what are the chances of it rusting in the next decade.
Edited by GrizzlyBear on Thursday 23 January 21:43
GrizzlyBear said:
I seem to remember reading a few of the VW models weren't Galvanised in the 90s, but I think they switched back to Galvanised metal rather sharpish, hence why you see loads of VWs from the early 2000s.
Of course, the big question is have Merc changed their ways? If I buy a 5 year old merc, what are the chances of it rusting in the next decade.
Mk4 Golfs (late 90s up to mid 00s) love to rot, as do their Audi half brothers. The late model cars aren't much better than the early ones. Of course, the big question is have Merc changed their ways? If I buy a 5 year old merc, what are the chances of it rusting in the next decade.
Edited by GrizzlyBear on Thursday 23 January 21:43
Mild steel is reactive in air and water - it is keen to oxidise. If a manufacturer chooses to use such an unstable material to make cars out of then it needs to be properly isolated from the air and water environment by means of galvanising and painting in such a way that the isolation material does not detach from the steel. Mercedes evidently did not do this for cars of around the year 2000
It is very disappointing that Mercedes, a premium brand, do not acknowledge and compensate for this. I shall not buy another.
It is very disappointing that Mercedes, a premium brand, do not acknowledge and compensate for this. I shall not buy another.
vxsmithers said:
Please please please can we stop blaming accountants for everything.. (this isn't directed at you, but at every other person who finds it easy to blame someone whose job they don't understand).
The media, or some comedian latched onto this about 10 years ago and its getting boring now.
Its not the accountants to blame, its the shareholders on their eternal drive to maximise their wealth. The accounatant helps the business look for ways to reduce costs, not ruin a company. I have never worked at a company run by accountants, and I don't think they exist in the real world. Its the CEO / Business functions that obey shareholders, and ultimately decisions rest with them, so please blame them!
Happy to be proved wrong by the myriad of keyboard warriors who sit in boardrooms taking their orders from accountants.
Good points and you are right.The media, or some comedian latched onto this about 10 years ago and its getting boring now.
Its not the accountants to blame, its the shareholders on their eternal drive to maximise their wealth. The accounatant helps the business look for ways to reduce costs, not ruin a company. I have never worked at a company run by accountants, and I don't think they exist in the real world. Its the CEO / Business functions that obey shareholders, and ultimately decisions rest with them, so please blame them!
Happy to be proved wrong by the myriad of keyboard warriors who sit in boardrooms taking their orders from accountants.
foppo said:
vxsmithers said:
Please please please can we stop blaming accountants for everything.. (this isn't directed at you, but at every other person who finds it easy to blame someone whose job they don't understand).
The media, or some comedian latched onto this about 10 years ago and its getting boring now.
Its not the accountants to blame, its the shareholders on their eternal drive to maximise their wealth. The accounatant helps the business look for ways to reduce costs, not ruin a company. I have never worked at a company run by accountants, and I don't think they exist in the real world. Its the CEO / Business functions that obey shareholders, and ultimately decisions rest with them, so please blame them!
Happy to be proved wrong by the myriad of keyboard warriors who sit in boardrooms taking their orders from accountants.
Good points and you are right.The media, or some comedian latched onto this about 10 years ago and its getting boring now.
Its not the accountants to blame, its the shareholders on their eternal drive to maximise their wealth. The accounatant helps the business look for ways to reduce costs, not ruin a company. I have never worked at a company run by accountants, and I don't think they exist in the real world. Its the CEO / Business functions that obey shareholders, and ultimately decisions rest with them, so please blame them!
Happy to be proved wrong by the myriad of keyboard warriors who sit in boardrooms taking their orders from accountants.
triggerh4ppy said:
Didnt all german manufacturers have this issue in the early 2000's.
BMW - e46/e39 arch rust
Golf mk5 - arch rust
Mercedes - Various
Sounds like everyone just went alone with a cheaper process after each other until they realised they have issues.
Around about the same time they all invested a small fortune in new paint shops with water based paint technologies.BMW - e46/e39 arch rust
Golf mk5 - arch rust
Mercedes - Various
Sounds like everyone just went alone with a cheaper process after each other until they realised they have issues.
Funny though, the one Rover invested in at Cowley for the 75 is still used by BMW today to paint MINIs, and has done since 2000, has never had a problem.
As I understood it, it was cost cutting and not galvanizing.
I have a 2003 E Class (W211) and it has a slight bit of rust on the inner arches but nothing that's warranted a repair just yet. Certainly nothing compared to the state of some of the older models I've seen. The rest of the car is absolutely solid though, 120k so far and no signs it's got that many miles on it.
Also as mentioned, there's plenty of other cars of that same era that have rust. It's surprising as you'd think that it's modern enough that cars just stopped rusting but plenty about that did.
I have a 2003 E Class (W211) and it has a slight bit of rust on the inner arches but nothing that's warranted a repair just yet. Certainly nothing compared to the state of some of the older models I've seen. The rest of the car is absolutely solid though, 120k so far and no signs it's got that many miles on it.
Also as mentioned, there's plenty of other cars of that same era that have rust. It's surprising as you'd think that it's modern enough that cars just stopped rusting but plenty about that did.
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