RE: BMW M3 farewell diary
Discussion
have done over 25k miles in my manual e90 - makes a brilliant daily - and with BTB modded exhaust - still causes me to wind down the window periodically to listen to that evocative howl. do not know what if anything i will replace it with in short/medium term - it's a keeper i think. i like changing gear - its not too big - i love it's handling on bumpy country roads and if you turn up at a customers it's just another 3 series unless they look close. bloody good everyday car
scoobyPPP said:
I have a Manual E92 and after reading all these comments about the DCT I really wish I had bought one, hopefully it wont be too difficult to shift it when I come to sell it.
I've got a few similar pangs today! Have a comp pack manual car which I love, but wonder what it would be like to have a DCT car. I completely ruled out DCT without even driving it first. Since then, I've had a test drive where it didn't bowl me over - although it was probably only 15 miles. I'd like one for a longer time to compare. ratty6464 said:
scoobyPPP said:
I have a Manual E92 and after reading all these comments about the DCT I really wish I had bought one, hopefully it wont be too difficult to shift it when I come to sell it.
I've got a few similar pangs today! Have a comp pack manual car which I love, but wonder what it would be like to have a DCT car. I completely ruled out DCT without even driving it first. Since then, I've had a test drive where it didn't bowl me over - although it was probably only 15 miles. I'd like one for a longer time to compare. The only upside to having the extra gear was during daily driving as it removed a flatish sport between 2nd to 3rd but when using the whole rev range the manual was perfect.
ratty6464 said:
scoobyPPP said:
I have a Manual E92 and after reading all these comments about the DCT I really wish I had bought one, hopefully it wont be too difficult to shift it when I come to sell it.
I've got a few similar pangs today! Have a comp pack manual car which I love, but wonder what it would be like to have a DCT car. I completely ruled out DCT without even driving it first. Since then, I've had a test drive where it didn't bowl me over - although it was probably only 15 miles. I'd like one for a longer time to compare. krallicious said:
ratty6464 said:
scoobyPPP said:
I have a Manual E92 and after reading all these comments about the DCT I really wish I had bought one, hopefully it wont be too difficult to shift it when I come to sell it.
I've got a few similar pangs today! Have a comp pack manual car which I love, but wonder what it would be like to have a DCT car. I completely ruled out DCT without even driving it first. Since then, I've had a test drive where it didn't bowl me over - although it was probably only 15 miles. I'd like one for a longer time to compare. The only upside to having the extra gear was during daily driving as it removed a flatish sport between 2nd to 3rd but when using the whole rev range the manual was perfect.
Is the DCT a gearbox that grows on you like the rest of the car or for people is it generally a quick like or loathe feeling?
I'm sorry Matt (or is it Dan, both names are at the bottom of the piece), but I think you are feeling guilty about talking your friend into buying the C63 and are a bit biased. There is no comparison between a C63 and an M3, the BMW is a scalpule compaired to the Mercedes hamfisted hammer. The BMW has better handling, looks, gearbox and interior.
Only the engine in the C63 is outstanding everything else is dull or poorly made. Mercedes build quality is so bad and their customer service so poor, I am constantly amazed anyone buys their cars let alone stays loyal to the brand. There is even a guy on here who bought a new C63 507 coupe that came with the wrong wheels, (Mercedes didn't seem to care and made him pay to replace them)!
I loved my M3 and hated my C63, the BMW can run rings around the Mercedes on every level.
Only the engine in the C63 is outstanding everything else is dull or poorly made. Mercedes build quality is so bad and their customer service so poor, I am constantly amazed anyone buys their cars let alone stays loyal to the brand. There is even a guy on here who bought a new C63 507 coupe that came with the wrong wheels, (Mercedes didn't seem to care and made him pay to replace them)!
I loved my M3 and hated my C63, the BMW can run rings around the Mercedes on every level.
Edited by findtomdotcom on Monday 3rd February 20:31
ratty6464 said:
Are dealerships inclined to loan a DCT for a day? That might be a good shout to sort it in my mind once and for all.
Is the DCT a gearbox that grows on you like the rest of the car or for people is it generally a quick like or loathe feeling?
You're unlikely to get a DCT for a day but, if my experience was anything to go by, you won't need that long.Is the DCT a gearbox that grows on you like the rest of the car or for people is it generally a quick like or loathe feeling?
A half hour blat did it for me, just make sure you learn and fiddle with the settings before going out then do some round town stuff and find a nice stretch of ribbony tarmac to experience the maximum amount of downchange throttle blippage.
Hated your C63. Really? Wow!
But it's good that we all think differently. I *much* prefer the looks of the C63 and I would have to take point with your comments that the interior is worse. I'm sorry but the materials used in the M3 are very poor in comparison. A good example is the boot floor and loadspace side covers; extremely flimsy and poorly flocked on the 3 x M3s I've seen, but resolutely sturdy and better produced in the C63.
I've always heard the M3 is the better handling car, and I have no reason to doubt it, but I would urge anyone thinks the C63 is just a drag-racer to try one; it really can be made to dance.
As you can tell, I love mine. As a daily proposition, it was far more suitable than an M3, although I have no doubt an M3 would show it up on a track.
But it's good that we all think differently. I *much* prefer the looks of the C63 and I would have to take point with your comments that the interior is worse. I'm sorry but the materials used in the M3 are very poor in comparison. A good example is the boot floor and loadspace side covers; extremely flimsy and poorly flocked on the 3 x M3s I've seen, but resolutely sturdy and better produced in the C63.
I've always heard the M3 is the better handling car, and I have no reason to doubt it, but I would urge anyone thinks the C63 is just a drag-racer to try one; it really can be made to dance.
As you can tell, I love mine. As a daily proposition, it was far more suitable than an M3, although I have no doubt an M3 would show it up on a track.
urquattroGus said:
Having driven both, the C63 has a more special engine (especially with the Performance pack and lightened internals), and is nicer day to day.
I think the M156 V8 is a modern classic. Difficult to quantify until you have experienced one
Well it's special in terms of it's very big but doesn't get that much specific output does it? As a feat of engineering getting 490ps out of 6.2 litres is hardly ground breaking? Even less so in the standard model which struggles to get 74hp per litre Vs. the S65 at 105. I think the M156 V8 is a modern classic. Difficult to quantify until you have experienced one
For me, as piece of engineering the S65 is more impressive than the M156.
ghibbett said:
As you can tell, I love mine. As a daily proposition, it was far more suitable than an M3, although I have no doubt an M3 would show it up on a track.
I haven't driven a C63 but I would imagine its make a really good daily & I stand by the fact that I would have enjoyed a C63 more than I did my M3 in daily use. 
LoonR1 said:
This is going to sound stupid but what has the CP got that the normal M3 doesn't. I just specced mine to the full when I bought it. 
Wiki said:
For 2011, BMW added the ZCP Competition Package to the M3’s lineup. Unlike the ZCP offered on the previous generation E46, the newest package didn’t change very much about the E92. Most of the adjustments were made to suspension components and the computer governing stability control. The changes for the E92 ZCP are as follows:
- The suspension has been lowered by 10mm. The spring rates are the same, but the springs themselves are shorter, to compensate for the shorter stance. The suspension’s shock damping was also adjusted by the M division. This was in order to compensate for the lower ride height, primarily for rebounding damping rates as opposed to actual compression.
- The Electronic Damper Control in the “Sport Mode” has been modified. A quote taken from the Manager of BMWNA’s M Division, Larry Koch: “The Sport Mode before ZCP was locked at 75% of the way to full stiff. It still has that as a default, but is now variable like the ‘Comfort’ and ‘Normal’ modes.” This translates to a stiffer ride whilst sport mode is engaged, aiding heavy cornering on a track at a cost to ride comfort when driving normally on the road.
- Modifications have been made to the computer governing the Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) in M Dynamic Mode. It is reworked and renamed to “Dynamic Traction Control” (DTC) which allows for larger angles of slip in heavy cornering. This translates to the rear end sliding out further than would be allowed on a non-ZCP M3 before the DTC kicks in to stop the tail slide. Also, once the DTC does kick in, instead of cutting power to the wheels in order to correct the slide (which is normal for the DSC on stock M3s), the DTC computer instead applies the brakes to individual wheels in order to keep the car from spinning excessively.
- In addition, forged 19 inch wheels in the same style as those on the E46 CSL are added to the car.
Wills2 said:
urquattroGus said:
Having driven both, the C63 has a more special engine (especially with the Performance pack and lightened internals), and is nicer day to day.
I think the M156 V8 is a modern classic. Difficult to quantify until you have experienced one
Well it's special in terms of it's very big but doesn't get that much specific output does it? As a feat of engineering getting 490ps out of 6.2 litres is hardly ground breaking? Even less so in the standard model which struggles to get 74hp per litre Vs. the S65 at 105. I think the M156 V8 is a modern classic. Difficult to quantify until you have experienced one
For me, as piece of engineering the S65 is more impressive than the M156.
The displacement certainly brings on the torque though....
I wouldnt knock the sound of the s65 at high revs, but for me the lack of torque was a major let down, it's each to their own though. Have you heard a c63 at close quarters? it's almost impossible not to giggle....
As it is short stroke it still revs aggresively to the 7200 rpm redline.
Incidentally I currently have an M135i and would love to get the next gen M3!
ratty6464 said:
Are dealerships inclined to loan a DCT for a day? That might be a good shout to sort it in my mind once and for all.
Is the DCT a gearbox that grows on you like the rest of the car or for people is it generally a quick like or loathe feeling?
If you spend most of your time in heavy traffic, or on a track, then DCT is the way to go.Is the DCT a gearbox that grows on you like the rest of the car or for people is it generally a quick like or loathe feeling?
If you enjoy the act of changing gear in a car with an absolute peach of a responsive engine, stick with the manual. Fit the F10 M5 gear knob, for improved looks and feel.
I went for manual with my first E92, after plenty of experience with DCT on road, where I found it boring, and track.
For my second, I thought should really give DCT more of a chance, so managed to arrange a week long loan of one. After a couple of days, I was either driving like a nutter, constantly in the 6-8.3k range, or trundling around in D2.
I was bored, and the only way I could make it interesting after those first 2 days was to rag the car.
With DCT you are only ever a click or 2 away from being in the "right" gear, so you never bother to exploit the massive usable rev range, or enjoy the razor sharp throttle response. Everything just becomes too easy. For me, that equals boredom.
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