RE: McLaren P1: Driven

[Mr Whippy]

Dr JonboyG said:

Amirhussain said:

CH doesn't have his TV show because apart from some people on PH, no one really knows who he is, pretty much everyone knows who Clarkson, Hammond and May are. And TBH I don't understand some of the praise and arse licking CH gets from some PH'ers.

Also just because he may be part of some alright videos online, doesn't mean its going to take of on the TV screens, Top Gear has more than 300 million viewers in over 100 countries worldwide, how many people you reckon would tune in to watch CH is he was given a TV slot?

A: broadcast TV is not the future.

B: in three days that P1 video has been watched by half a million people. I'd say that's more than just a few people on PH.

Exactly, everyone is moving to the web now and on demand is the future so why you'd want to move back to broadcast is beyond me for this kinda content.


I'm still waiting for an on-line channel that does more technical stuff.
A bit like the Best Motoring car reviews which were always really informative vs the journo-babble stuff we get.
Or anyone whose seen the Edmunds suspension walk-around type stuff, they also make great watching for those interested in how cars actually work and were developed and the end results.
Taking a look over the car first, then driving it on a road course, then slaloms and so on, then doing some racing side by side with similar cars.


Personally I think Evo TV has got this whole thing the best out of anyone so far. A good combo of technical, on-road, on-track, good editing, good audio, good drivers and also good on camera etc.

Just the flipping adverts on YT now. How long until they force you to watch them rather than just look at something else while they play themselves?

[Dr JonboyG]

E65Ross said:

Bare in mind those figures are totally skewed by those refreshing the page, watching it more than once etc.

And TV viewing figures are extrapolations of Nielson set top boxes and people writing in little diaries.

[Sway]

On the point that Ferrari, Porsche et al are using both E diff and brake steer, could part of the reason that they aren't using the seemingly new and spangly Akebono brakes with silicon carbide coating?

Perhaps they have limitations with brake steer Mclaren don't in this instance?

[DonkeyApple]

Mr Whippy said:

Dr JonboyG said:

Amirhussain said:

CH doesn't have his TV show because apart from some people on PH, no one really knows who he is, pretty much everyone knows who Clarkson, Hammond and May are. And TBH I don't understand some of the praise and arse licking CH gets from some PH'ers.

Also just because he may be part of some alright videos online, doesn't mean its going to take of on the TV screens, Top Gear has more than 300 million viewers in over 100 countries worldwide, how many people you reckon would tune in to watch CH is he was given a TV slot?

A: broadcast TV is not the future.

B: in three days that P1 video has been watched by half a million people. I'd say that's more than just a few people on PH.

Exactly, everyone is moving to the web now and on demand is the future so why you'd want to move back to broadcast is beyond me for this kinda content.


I'm still waiting for an on-line channel that does more technical stuff.
A bit like the Best Motoring car reviews which were always really informative vs the journo-babble stuff we get.
Or anyone whose seen the Edmunds suspension walk-around type stuff, they also make great watching for those interested in how cars actually work and were developed and the end results.
Taking a look over the car first, then driving it on a road course, then slaloms and so on, then doing some racing side by side with similar cars.


Personally I think Evo TV has got this whole thing the best out of anyone so far. A good combo of technical, on-road, on-track, good editing, good audio, good drivers and also good on camera etc.

Just the flipping adverts on YT now. How long until they force you to watch them rather than just look at something else while they play themselves?

The real question to be asking is why hasn't CH cashed in on the Christmas DVD market? Seems a very obvious way to flip a couple of hundred K into the coffers each Spring.

[isaldiri]

Sway said:

On the point that Ferrari, Porsche et al are using both E diff and brake steer, could part of the reason that they aren't using the seemingly new and spangly Akebono brakes with silicon carbide coating?

Perhaps they have limitations with brake steer Mclaren don't in this instance?

The 12C/650S are not equipped with the fancy akebono brakes the P1 has (which are as far as I am aware horrendously expensive) so it is absolutely not a matter of being limited by braking capability I'd reckon.

[dinkel]

Mr Whippy said:

I'm still waiting for an on-line channel that does more technical stuff.

So . . . I'm not alone here?

[Bombjack]

isaldiri said:

Sway said:

On the point that Ferrari, Porsche et al are using both E diff and brake steer, could part of the reason that they aren't using the seemingly new and spangly Akebono brakes with silicon carbide coating?

Perhaps they have limitations with brake steer Mclaren don't in this instance?

The 12C/650S are not equipped with the fancy akebono brakes the P1 has (which are as far as I am aware horrendously expensive) so it is absolutely not a matter of being limited by braking capability I'd reckon.

One thing the P1 could be doing that the 12C never could is minutely varying the torque at the driveshaft in fractions of a second by continuously adjusting electric motor output.

[Mr Whippy]

isaldiri said:

Sway said:

On the point that Ferrari, Porsche et al are using both E diff and brake steer, could part of the reason that they aren't using the seemingly new and spangly Akebono brakes with silicon carbide coating?

Perhaps they have limitations with brake steer Mclaren don't in this instance?

The 12C/650S are not equipped with the fancy akebono brakes the P1 has (which are as far as I am aware horrendously expensive) so it is absolutely not a matter of being limited by braking capability I'd reckon.

Indeed, wasn't the new MINI Cooper S using braked front wheels to act as a differential, among with many others I'd assume. ESP on many cars driven hard is probably giving brakes a hard time thermally too, ie, big fat AMG Mercs being hooned hard on a track. But still nowhere near as much as general high speed decelerations.


Just McLaren wanted to use this approach for this car so that is what they did.

There is nothing more to it than that.

Anyone who says any different, including McLaren, are just using it as marketing material rather than anything else. Though I'm sure McLaren would like to think that everyone thinks they are just better than everyone else, despite not saying it

[Mr Whippy]

Bombjack said:

isaldiri said:

Sway said:

On the point that Ferrari, Porsche et al are using both E diff and brake steer, could part of the reason that they aren't using the seemingly new and spangly Akebono brakes with silicon carbide coating?

Perhaps they have limitations with brake steer Mclaren don't in this instance?

The 12C/650S are not equipped with the fancy akebono brakes the P1 has (which are as far as I am aware horrendously expensive) so it is absolutely not a matter of being limited by braking capability I'd reckon.

One thing the P1 could be doing that the 12C never could is minutely varying the torque at the driveshaft in fractions of a second by continuously adjusting electric motor output.

I'm fairly sure loads of cars are braking front/rear wheels to control attitude of the car and act as differential devices for a number of years now.

This is nothing new.

Isn't the old 135Ci BMW using braking rear wheels to act as a differential.

And the current 911 Turbo rear braking for steering attitude control under brakes.


Just because McLaren tell us all about them doesn't make them new. It's just like the 12C's suspension. Interesting yes, but it'd been fitted to 90's luxury Japanese cars iirc.

Dave

[Mr Whippy]

dinkel said:

Mr Whippy said:

I'm still waiting for an on-line channel that does more technical stuff.

So . . . I'm not alone here?

I've been thinking about it a lot recently. The main problem is getting the cars that people are interested in, which tend to be the newer faster more exotic types and not diesel Astra's with funny McPs hehe

[RoverP6B]

Mr Whippy said:

The 12C's suspension. Interesting yes, but it'd been fitted to 90's luxury Japanese cars iirc.

Yeah, the Toyota Soarer/Lexus SC400 had a rare variant which had active hydraulic suspension - but I believe it was a licensed copy of that found in the Citroen Xantia Activa (another car much talked about here lately), which itself was a development of the old Citroen hydropneumatics, which first hit the market on the Traction Avant's rear axle in 1954, and which was also used by Rolls-Royce/Bentley (Silver Shadow, T1/2), Maserati (when they were owned by Citroen) and in altered form by Mercedes-Benz (W116, W126). However, I believe that McLaren has moved the game on somewhat in terms of the way the four corners of the car are interlinked. I think it's also the first implementation of this technology in a mid-engined application.

[Kawasicki]

RoverP6B said:

Mr Whippy said:

The 12C's suspension. Interesting yes, but it'd been fitted to 90's luxury Japanese cars iirc.

Yeah, the Toyota Soarer/Lexus SC400 had a rare variant which had active hydraulic suspension - but I believe it was a licensed copy of that found in the Citroen Xantia Activa (another car much talked about here lately), which itself was a development of the old Citroen hydropneumatics, which first hit the market on the Traction Avant's rear axle in 1954, and which was also used by Rolls-Royce/Bentley (Silver Shadow, T1/2), Maserati (when they were owned by Citroen) and in altered form by Mercedes-Benz (W116, W126). However, I believe that McLaren has moved the game on somewhat in terms of the way the four corners of the car are interlinked. I think it's also the first implementation of this technology in a mid-engined application.

It's Aussie tech, mate.

Google Tenneco Kinetic.

[The Vambo]

Kawasicki said:

It's Aussie tech, mate.

Google Tenneco Kinetic.

Very interesting, I presumed that Toyota, Audi and McLaren had all developed their own systems.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-anti-anti...

[vtgts300kw]

Mr Whippy said:

I'm still waiting for an on-line channel that does more technical stuff.
A bit like the Best Motoring car reviews which were always really informative vs the journo-babble stuff we get.
Or anyone whose seen the Edmunds suspension walk-around type stuff, they also make great watching for those interested in how cars actually work and were developed and the end results.
Taking a look over the car first, then driving it on a road course, then slaloms and so on, then doing some racing side by side with similar cars.

I'm surprised Drive hasn't done this already. I'd have thought there would be plenty of capable tuners/ workshops who could "front" the pieces to camera. Plenty of branding/ publicity involved.

[Kawasicki]

The Vambo said:

Kawasicki said:

It's Aussie tech, mate.

Google Tenneco Kinetic.

Very interesting, I presumed that Toyota, Audi and McLaren had all developed their own systems.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-anti-anti...

No, the suppliers often have most of the tech depth on components and systems/sub-systems. The vehicle manufacturers obviously have the experience when it comes to how well the vehicle comes together. Dampers on a Porsche probably have the same internals as dampers on a Kia. It's the tuning that is important.

[RoverP6B]

Kawasicki said:

Dampers on a Porsche probably have the same internals as dampers on a Kia

Somehow I doubt it! Point taken, though.

[Mr Whippy]

vtgts300kw said:

Mr Whippy said:

I'm still waiting for an on-line channel that does more technical stuff.
A bit like the Best Motoring car reviews which were always really informative vs the journo-babble stuff we get.
Or anyone whose seen the Edmunds suspension walk-around type stuff, they also make great watching for those interested in how cars actually work and were developed and the end results.
Taking a look over the car first, then driving it on a road course, then slaloms and so on, then doing some racing side by side with similar cars.

I'm surprised Drive hasn't done this already. I'd have thought there would be plenty of capable tuners/ workshops who could "front" the pieces to camera. Plenty of branding/ publicity involved.

If they do then no slow-motion, no woofly audio, no arty stuff. Just do things like Equinox from the 80's... professional engineering level stuff (like eng-tips) made into videos.

Race car engineering is also an interesting read but as the title notes, it's race cars 95% of the time (guessed statistic )

I think it needs different types of journalists though. Chris Harris is great at telling us how cars feel and things, but he's not really anywhere near appreciating engineering I wouldn't say. He still quotes torque out of context for example, which says enough

Dave

[Luther Blisset]

Max_Torque said:

Man in bedroom on internet "knows-more-about-cars-than-major(successful)-car-manufacturer" again.........



You should probably get a job with Mclaren Tom, they need people like you to think of all the silly things they have missed on their 4 year, ~500M, >10M man hr project.

£500 million? Does this mean they made an overall loss on the project?

[CraigyMc]

Luther Blisset said:

£500 million? Does this mean they made an overall loss on the project?

Depends.

If you're doing £866K x 375 cars (£324m) then it's probably worth noting that the average sale price of a P1 is over £1m because most customers are putting optional items on the car. In GBP, it'd be at least £375m on that basis. If you look at that average price in US dollars($1.6m), you get to a figure of about $600m.


For comparison, by the way, the McLaren F1 car cost £8m to develop according to Gordon Murray.

Edited by CraigyMc on Wednesday 12th March 15:25

[GALLARDOGUY]

What extras are there?

Can't be too many outside of fancy paint.