RE: BMW M5 (E34): Catch it while you can
Discussion
3795mpower said:
The E39 is slightly softer (especially when compaired to the 3.8 E34 with EDC dampers),
Slightly heavier, but countered by having lovely torquey V8 sound track.
It's said that in compairing E39 to E34 it's like the same engineers designed both,
But those same engineers were 10 years older hence a slightly more mature driving experience.
Please don't get me started on the E60.
Ahem. Poke..Slightly heavier, but countered by having lovely torquey V8 sound track.
It's said that in compairing E39 to E34 it's like the same engineers designed both,
But those same engineers were 10 years older hence a slightly more mature driving experience.
Please don't get me started on the E60.
Edited by 3795mpower on Friday 21st March 09:16
tell me about the e60
3795mpower said:
The E39 is slightly softer (especially when compaired to the 3.8 E34 with EDC dampers),
Slightly heavier, but countered by having lovely torquey V8 sound track.
It's said that in compairing E39 to E34 it's like the same engineers designed both,
But those same engineers were 10 years older hence a slightly more mature driving experience.
Please don't get me started on the E60.
Ahem. Poke..Slightly heavier, but countered by having lovely torquey V8 sound track.
It's said that in compairing E39 to E34 it's like the same engineers designed both,
But those same engineers were 10 years older hence a slightly more mature driving experience.
Please don't get me started on the E60.
Edited by 3795mpower on Friday 21st March 09:16
tell me about the e60
3795mpower said:
I won't rise to it.
The E60 is a topic for an entire thread of it's own, or indeed a sub thread of
"the rise and fall of BMW //M division, the pre and post Bangle years..."
Ok, I rose to it a bit.
Not a fan then?The E60 is a topic for an entire thread of it's own, or indeed a sub thread of
"the rise and fall of BMW //M division, the pre and post Bangle years..."
Ok, I rose to it a bit.
I almost considered going to look at an E34 3.6 in 2009 when I was looking at ST220 Mondeo's. It was a 100k mile example up at £4000 at a dealers. I could probably have gotten a few quid off it. Part of me really wishes that I had've. If I'd of kept it in good condition, I'd of not really lost on it. But, as I ended up doing 12,000 miles in 3 months later that year, I would've needed a second car or I'd of ruined it, so perhaps a blessing.
Would've been nice to compare it to my current E39. I still hanker after an E28 M5....
3795mpower said:
They can handle big mileages.
Our experience is the cars that get regular use encounter less issues than those that don't.
Obviously with mileage comes extra maintenance granted.
True. I've put 12k on my E39 since July, but its now flagging up some issues (potentially expensive, but we dont own these cars and worry about bills eh!) Our experience is the cars that get regular use encounter less issues than those that don't.
Obviously with mileage comes extra maintenance granted.
I just couldnt decide on the E34. I expect putting 12k miles on it, it spending alot of its time in North London being bashed about by unscrupulous owners of microbrains who bash their car doors into my doors, kids kicking footballs at my car or other microbrained people using my front bumper as their "i've gone too far back with the tow bar so must pull forward a bit, the poor sap in the car behind will never know" stop, it would've been ruined (all the above actually happened, to my old Vectra Elite).
Now my E39 just gets a different kind of vandalisation, in Aylesbury...
JDMDrifter said:
Would love one of these in techno violet, saw an estate a few months back in that shade and i was in awe 
Purple Tourings do look good - Although i think it's Daytona Violet as opposed to Techno violet.For me - an early (3.6 litre) car in Macau Blue with lotus leather and the '4 seat' option would be perfect. I had an E30 'Motorsport Edition' Convertible in Macau Blue and its a stunning colour - Dark blue in some light conditions, black in others. And purple in brilliant direct sunlight.
A while ago (although they still have it) a Macau Blue 3.6 M5 came up for sale local to me. I was very interested until i went to view the car - The 'garage' itself immediately put me on the back foot, then before i had even got out of the car i noticed it was fitted with after market 'angel eye' headlamps and strange coachlines, plus it turns out its been 'chipped' and had an an aftermarket exhaust fitted............. I walked away.
Save Ferris said:
Didn't one of these make SOTW a few years back?
Yes, on Friday 2nd September 2011: SOTW: BMW M5These are great cars, i've driven both the 3.6 and own a 3.8, the 3.6 sounds a tad harder and the 3.8 has softer clutch noticeably so, but the 3.8 is defo faster and properly so, i know these for fact, i won't say where or how i know, won't be responsible of me. On saying that the only downsides with the 3.8 for me is the constant worry about what to do when the time comes to freshen up or change the EDC ( £1,500 a corner), mine is working fine touch wood, and also the fact i never get to explore that car properly in UK due to the fact its rare to find a place to really explore the car properly without getting in serious trouble with the rozzers, however in Europe and in some country lanes of where near i used to live near france or Spain where i've gone with mine this cars are absolutely MENTAL in the right hands moreso with that EDC, it is a devastating tool, the sound is very close to CSL territory and it has ferocious pace so much so to keep a few 911's or 360 modena's close (in the right hands and right roads), No surprise then it was the fastest saloon in the world at its launch. My take on the maintenance is to drive it with respect and gentile approach, preventive maintenance and at these stage as i do use as a weekend car and it won't be a car to bankrupt you, same thing was said of the e30 m3 about timing chain etc and yet i've had mine for 17years + and all i did was change the tensor using the e36's part and c'est ca!!! Use the cars with care and enjoy....Don't know if this matters much, but took my e34 m5 to BMW a few weeks ago and some of the guys there swarmed the car stating "this was when we built proper cars now regulations compliance etc are what determines what we build" and i was advised to mine due to fact this was a driver involving car through and true!!!
^^^ Yep, I'd agree with a lot of that. While the S38_B38 motor isn't quite as "angry" as the S54 in the CSL, I think I may actually prefer the older one. It's a masterpiece of an engine
Many say that the whole purpose of supersaloons is to be able to do the daily tasks well, and then turn into a hooligan on demand, and I believe that is still true for the latest M5. However, with the E34 I find what it does is try and persuade you to turn into the hooligan, all the time! It takes a lot of restraint to not give in
The fact that to many it's just an old barge is a lot of the fun as well. I'm certainly no skilled racing driver, but these things really are able to mix it with a lot of more modern / superior metal when they're on the move. People love to look at on paper stats and say that Car A would "destroy" Car B due to a 20BHP difference or some such fairly meaningless fact. What I will say is that an E34 M5 3.8 can make a fairly good job of living with a 997 C2S or an E46 M3 on faster A-roads, and that's pretty impressive for a 20+ year old 4-door euro-barge. Or so I've been told anyway!
Many say that the whole purpose of supersaloons is to be able to do the daily tasks well, and then turn into a hooligan on demand, and I believe that is still true for the latest M5. However, with the E34 I find what it does is try and persuade you to turn into the hooligan, all the time! It takes a lot of restraint to not give in
The fact that to many it's just an old barge is a lot of the fun as well. I'm certainly no skilled racing driver, but these things really are able to mix it with a lot of more modern / superior metal when they're on the move. People love to look at on paper stats and say that Car A would "destroy" Car B due to a 20BHP difference or some such fairly meaningless fact. What I will say is that an E34 M5 3.8 can make a fairly good job of living with a 997 C2S or an E46 M3 on faster A-roads, and that's pretty impressive for a 20+ year old 4-door euro-barge. Or so I've been told anyway!
I've had three rather rare E34's.
Fistly a 540i Touring with the six speed manual box - huge low down grunt and torque but a little breathless over 5k revs, very rare as a manual with only 64 rhd Tourings made. Had it not been written off I would still be driving it now.
Next was an M5 Touring; sadly it was hampered by Atlantic weather damaged bodywork after living yards from the sea for six or seven years so when, after years of nervous enjoyment, the engine let go, the car was simply uneconomic to fix. Lovely engine, addictive sound and huge go over 4.5k but surprisingly powerless below 3k.
Finally the Alpina B10 4.6 Touring, combining the even bigger low down grunt of the V8 with continued power all the way to 6.5k revs - I've played against E34 3.8 M5's and an E39 B10 V8 and it's as quick as the latter and quicker than the former. It has the 340bhp of the 3.8 M5 but almost 20% more torques. The only thing it lacks is the still-addictive howl from that twin-cam straight six but I have a now-restored M635CSi for when the that particular urge needs attention.
The E34 cars are incredibly well made and I always vowed I'd get back in another after the M5T died - fortunately the Alpina arrived before I managed to track down the few made up rhd E34 M5 Tourings; two in 3.8 flavour and two in 3.6 flavour IIRC.
Fistly a 540i Touring with the six speed manual box - huge low down grunt and torque but a little breathless over 5k revs, very rare as a manual with only 64 rhd Tourings made. Had it not been written off I would still be driving it now.
Next was an M5 Touring; sadly it was hampered by Atlantic weather damaged bodywork after living yards from the sea for six or seven years so when, after years of nervous enjoyment, the engine let go, the car was simply uneconomic to fix. Lovely engine, addictive sound and huge go over 4.5k but surprisingly powerless below 3k.
Finally the Alpina B10 4.6 Touring, combining the even bigger low down grunt of the V8 with continued power all the way to 6.5k revs - I've played against E34 3.8 M5's and an E39 B10 V8 and it's as quick as the latter and quicker than the former. It has the 340bhp of the 3.8 M5 but almost 20% more torques. The only thing it lacks is the still-addictive howl from that twin-cam straight six but I have a now-restored M635CSi for when the that particular urge needs attention.
The E34 cars are incredibly well made and I always vowed I'd get back in another after the M5T died - fortunately the Alpina arrived before I managed to track down the few made up rhd E34 M5 Tourings; two in 3.8 flavour and two in 3.6 flavour IIRC.
My 3.8 saloon is my daily driver. Big armrest holds kids kit, ski hatch accommodates 3 m long 4x2's, BMW roof rack fits in seconds, LSD keeps you going in the slippery stuff, and chassis balance trivialises bad weather. It's a fantastic daily car. This is my second one, with sympathetically modded suspension that keeps costs down, doesn't ruin the ride, and still sharpens the drive. I've now covered more miles in E34 M5's than any other type of car.
It also makes every journey special. My 2 year old and 5 year old daughters both talk about the "racing car engine". It is so immediate in its throttle response and revviness you can't help but want to go for it, noise above 3.5 k is thoroughbred. With 90 bhp/litre and no VANOS it has an idle that rocks the car and rattles windows, and a rather cammy power delivery that feels really special as it gets going. Is there another family saloon with individual throttle bodies and a straight through back box as standard? With no traction control as well it's really a bit mental compared to a modern polished synthesised product, like a TVR in a restrained suit. A former BMW engineer was praising it as one built "before they got spoiled".
That suit was cut by Ercole Spada, who also designed the Aston DB4 GT Zagato (flame surfacing?). So, despite the ubiquity of being a 5 series, its classy and understated. The ergonomics are superb, and after 500 miles I'm invariably in a better mood than when i started. And always regret having to switch it off. Mine has cost me a lot, but I've had it 6 years, its not depreciating, I don't really want to go faster - I'd end up in gaol. And it ticks every box.
It also makes every journey special. My 2 year old and 5 year old daughters both talk about the "racing car engine". It is so immediate in its throttle response and revviness you can't help but want to go for it, noise above 3.5 k is thoroughbred. With 90 bhp/litre and no VANOS it has an idle that rocks the car and rattles windows, and a rather cammy power delivery that feels really special as it gets going. Is there another family saloon with individual throttle bodies and a straight through back box as standard? With no traction control as well it's really a bit mental compared to a modern polished synthesised product, like a TVR in a restrained suit. A former BMW engineer was praising it as one built "before they got spoiled".
That suit was cut by Ercole Spada, who also designed the Aston DB4 GT Zagato (flame surfacing?). So, despite the ubiquity of being a 5 series, its classy and understated. The ergonomics are superb, and after 500 miles I'm invariably in a better mood than when i started. And always regret having to switch it off. Mine has cost me a lot, but I've had it 6 years, its not depreciating, I don't really want to go faster - I'd end up in gaol. And it ticks every box.
Edited by Baddie on Friday 21st March 23:07
These are great cars, i've driven both the 3.6 and own a 3.8, the 3.6 sounds a tad harder and the 3.8 has softer clutch noticeably so, but the 3.8 is defo faster and properly so, i know these for fact, i won't say where or how i know, won't be responsible of me. On saying that the only downsides with the 3.8 for me is the constant worry about what to do when the time comes to freshen up or change the EDC ( £1,500 a corner), mine is working fine touch wood, and also the fact i never get to explore that car properly in UK due to the fact its rare to find a place to really explore the car properly without getting in serious trouble with the rozzers, however in Europe and in some country lanes of where near i used to live near france or Spain where i've gone with mine this cars are absolutely MENTAL in the right hands moreso with that EDC, it is a devastating tool, the sound is very close to CSL territory and it has ferocious pace so much so to keep a few 911's or 360 modena's close (in the right hands and right roads), No surprise then it was the fastest saloon in the world at its launch. My take on the maintenance is to drive it with respect and gentile approach, preventive maintenance and at these stage as i do use as a weekend car and it won't be a car to bankrupt you, same thing was said of the e30 m3 about timing chain etc and yet i've had mine for 17years + and all i did was change the tensor using the e36's part and c'est ca!!! Use the cars with care and enjoy....Don't know if this matters much, but took my e34 m5 to BMW a few weeks ago and some of the guys there swarmed the car stating "this was when we built proper cars now regulations compliance etc are what determines what we build" and i was advised to mine due to fact this was a driver involving car through and true!!!
Baddie said:
That suit was cut by Ercole Spada, who also designed the Aston DB4 GT Zagato (flame surfacing?). So, despite the ubiquity of being a 5 series, its classy and understated.
Not so. The E30, E32, E34 are all the work of Claus Luthe, who'd been involved in most E series previous - and IIRC was Head of Design post E28 - which is why those three models sit together as a family of 3,5 &7 series like none before or since. Sadly his career ended in tragic circumstances.I love the E34 design, it's just so finely resolved in every detail. Heck, I have one, have had it for years - and no plans to change
Huff said:
Baddie said:
That suit was cut by Ercole Spada, who also designed the Aston DB4 GT Zagato (flame surfacing?). So, despite the ubiquity of being a 5 series, its classy and understated.
Not so. The E30, E32, E34 are all the work of Claus Luthe, who'd been involved in most E series previous - and IIRC was Head of Design post E28 - which is why those three models sit together as a family of 3,5 &7 series like none before or since. Sadly his career ended in tragic circumstances.I love the E34 design, it's just so finely resolved in every detail. Heck, I have one, have had it for years - and no plans to change
With Spada being the chief stylist until 1983 (Clause Luthe being the Chief designer)and the original proposals for the E34 being submitted in 1982 and 1983 i think that Spada can lay claim to the E34 (he can certainly lay claim for penning the lines of the E32) But i understand J mays was ultimatly responsible for the final detailing of the design (of the E34) in 1984 or 85.
Edited by richard300 on Friday 28th March 13:46
Edited by richard300 on Saturday 29th March 08:17
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