RE: McLaren 650S: Review
Discussion
thatdude said:
blasos said:
Why are you proud to be British? Is that something you achieved? Did you, as a sperm or egg, have some say in the matter of getting your parents to bang in good ol' Britannia? I mean, someone may be grateful or happy to be born into or to have lived in a certain society. But to be proud? I'm pretty sure you had no input in the matter. Are you proud of McLaren? Did you happen to have a hand on the design, testing, production or some other phase of the creation of this product? Or are you just a brainwashed patriot who's proud because his parents got hot and sweaty in the same country as where this company was developed? Honest question. Think about it.
Also, what's with the rather petty "Fiat" snipe? Are you attempting to mock a car in order to make your beloved McLaren seem superior?
Do you feel proud of Korea / to be a Korean?Also, what's with the rather petty "Fiat" snipe? Are you attempting to mock a car in order to make your beloved McLaren seem superior?
[quote=jonby]The 650S reviews across all the mags/websites which all went live overnight have an air of predictability about them and a strong whiff of emperor's new clothes
Put bluntly, my guess (which I'm prepared to be laughed at for, bearing in mind I've not yet driven the 650S) is that the new car is an improvement but I'm sceptical that the actual base character of the car is substantially changed over the 12C. Why ? Because nobody complained that the 12C wasn't fast enough or incredibly capable yet much of the praise for the 650S (looking across all the latest reviews, not just PH) seems to revolve around these areas rather than 'character', which was the main area of criticism for the 12C
[/quote
Well exaggeration and 'spinning' facts is journalism!
I know Mclaren don't want them writing:
'The 12C could have made far more power and looked like the P1 however until the model year after the P1 was sold it was deliberately restricted and had a more conventional Noble M600/Lotus Evora-esque front end.'
Mclaren want journalists to be entertaining to get publicity for their brand and advertising. As long as they are reasonable otherwise I guess they won't get any cars to review. Saying that Clarkson seems to have done ok.
Put bluntly, my guess (which I'm prepared to be laughed at for, bearing in mind I've not yet driven the 650S) is that the new car is an improvement but I'm sceptical that the actual base character of the car is substantially changed over the 12C. Why ? Because nobody complained that the 12C wasn't fast enough or incredibly capable yet much of the praise for the 650S (looking across all the latest reviews, not just PH) seems to revolve around these areas rather than 'character', which was the main area of criticism for the 12C
[/quote
Well exaggeration and 'spinning' facts is journalism!
I know Mclaren don't want them writing:
'The 12C could have made far more power and looked like the P1 however until the model year after the P1 was sold it was deliberately restricted and had a more conventional Noble M600/Lotus Evora-esque front end.'
Mclaren want journalists to be entertaining to get publicity for their brand and advertising. As long as they are reasonable otherwise I guess they won't get any cars to review. Saying that Clarkson seems to have done ok.
The main thing this car had to do for me was fix the generic front end and they've done that.
I've seen a couple of 12Cs on the road and each time I've had to wait until it got closer to be sure what it is. A car in this category shouldn't need a second glance, its looks should announce itself with supreme confidence.
I've seen a couple of 12Cs on the road and each time I've had to wait until it got closer to be sure what it is. A car in this category shouldn't need a second glance, its looks should announce itself with supreme confidence.
Dan Trent said:
As guilty as any in the business of being magnetically drawn to the drifting be-all end-all but from a media perspective what makes the more attractive vid: Harris doing a clean 'lap time' run in a 458/650S/GT3/etc or one where he immolates a set of tyres?
For what it's worth, my favourite moment - the one I'd bottle if I could - driving the 650S was coming out of that fast left-right at Ascari and the smooth blend from massive front end bite at apex through lovely neutrality to just a hint of oversteer on the exit as the turbos spooled up, followed by the redline 'inertia push' upshift. Just magic. Not showboating, just effing fast and absolutely thrilling. And it's that harmonisation and calibration of all the controls - brake, chassis, throttle, aero, etc - that really works beautifully in the 650S.
So, yes, sideways tyres/pants on fire makes for good vids and pics. But it's the more subtle stuff that really marks out a proper car in my book, which is why I tried to focus more on that and not get carried away doing skids. Not to belittle the latter, of course. Because I love doing that too!
Anyway, just my tuppence worth.
Cheers,
Dan
For what it's worth, my favourite moment - the one I'd bottle if I could - driving the 650S was coming out of that fast left-right at Ascari and the smooth blend from massive front end bite at apex through lovely neutrality to just a hint of oversteer on the exit as the turbos spooled up, followed by the redline 'inertia push' upshift. Just magic. Not showboating, just effing fast and absolutely thrilling. And it's that harmonisation and calibration of all the controls - brake, chassis, throttle, aero, etc - that really works beautifully in the 650S.
So, yes, sideways tyres/pants on fire makes for good vids and pics. But it's the more subtle stuff that really marks out a proper car in my book, which is why I tried to focus more on that and not get carried away doing skids. Not to belittle the latter, of course. Because I love doing that too!
Anyway, just my tuppence worth.
Cheers,
Dan
Thanks for the input. I suppose at the end of the day it's between us intense enthusiasts (or nerds) who want to know these practicalities and limitations, and those who just like to know how fast it goes and how fast it can try to turn (I'm not saying people who like drifting and silly stuff are thick).It's up to you to find that balance in the content, which can't be easy I'm sure.
Chicane-UK said:
blasos said:
Why are you proud to be British? Is that something you achieved? Did you, as a sperm or egg, have some say in the matter of getting your parents to bang in good ol' Britannia? I mean, someone may be grateful or happy to be born into or to have lived in a certain society. But to be proud? I'm pretty sure you had no input in the matter. Are you proud of McLaren? Did you happen to have a hand on the design, testing, production or some other phase of the creation of this product? Or are you just a brainwashed patriot who's proud because his parents got hot and sweaty in the same country as where this company was developed? Honest question. Think about it.
Deary me. Blasos, I'm not sure you should have been released back into the community quite so early.
Yes, for the record, I am a true Brit (not one, by the way, that has just climbed out the back of an artic, sung the national anthem without stammering and recited a few lines of Shakespeare before being given a piece of paper to prove it - but that's another subject), and looking round at what's going on in other parts of the world, I'm very proud to be one too.
McLaren are British, they are good, so I'm proud to be nationalistically associated with them. That's the way it works round here. Have another tablet FFS.
From a purely aesthetic POV I really didn't like the first press shots of the 650S. I thought it looked clumsy and very 'me too' wrt to the P1. But oddly, the more I saw the photos, and since seeing it in the metal, I've really grown to like the looks.
Sure it doesn't have the classical good looks of the 12C, understated and 'smooth', but it's aggressive and purposeful for sure.
I'm certain McLaren will keep selling the 12C, but only because there are a large number of supercar owners who want the understated looks of the 12C - for a car with 600+bhp it certainly doesn't shout about it too much.
I've done a lot of miles in 12C coupes and spiders, and I can't wait to drive the 650S to see how it compares.
Sure it doesn't have the classical good looks of the 12C, understated and 'smooth', but it's aggressive and purposeful for sure.
I'm certain McLaren will keep selling the 12C, but only because there are a large number of supercar owners who want the understated looks of the 12C - for a car with 600+bhp it certainly doesn't shout about it too much.
I've done a lot of miles in 12C coupes and spiders, and I can't wait to drive the 650S to see how it compares.
Cobnapint said:
Chicane-UK said:
blasos said:
Why are you proud to be British? Is that something you achieved? Did you, as a sperm or egg, have some say in the matter of getting your parents to bang in good ol' Britannia? I mean, someone may be grateful or happy to be born into or to have lived in a certain society. But to be proud? I'm pretty sure you had no input in the matter. Are you proud of McLaren? Did you happen to have a hand on the design, testing, production or some other phase of the creation of this product? Or are you just a brainwashed patriot who's proud because his parents got hot and sweaty in the same country as where this company was developed? Honest question. Think about it.
Deary me. 
ks.Cobnapint said:
jimmy156 said:
Really? The 12c was a pretty fantastic car, heralded by many reviews as superior to its rivals but 'lacking soul.'
I cannot see how McLaren screws up with the 12c, apart from some initial teething problems which by all accounts were dealt with extremely well. Can you see ferrari issuing free updates to existing owners that add power(?) and improve the car significantly?
It was a fantastic car, but it's just been superseded by an even better one which is (all things considered) very close in price to the 'lesser being'.I cannot see how McLaren screws up with the 12c, apart from some initial teething problems which by all accounts were dealt with extremely well. Can you see ferrari issuing free updates to existing owners that add power(?) and improve the car significantly?
Or any other car where they've replaced it, right?
storminnorman said:
Dan Trent said:
As guilty as any in the business of being magnetically drawn to the drifting be-all end-all but from a media perspective what makes the more attractive vid: Harris doing a clean 'lap time' run in a 458/650S/GT3/etc or one where he immolates a set of tyres?
For what it's worth, my favourite moment - the one I'd bottle if I could - driving the 650S was coming out of that fast left-right at Ascari and the smooth blend from massive front end bite at apex through lovely neutrality to just a hint of oversteer on the exit as the turbos spooled up, followed by the redline 'inertia push' upshift. Just magic. Not showboating, just effing fast and absolutely thrilling. And it's that harmonisation and calibration of all the controls - brake, chassis, throttle, aero, etc - that really works beautifully in the 650S.
So, yes, sideways tyres/pants on fire makes for good vids and pics. But it's the more subtle stuff that really marks out a proper car in my book, which is why I tried to focus more on that and not get carried away doing skids. Not to belittle the latter, of course. Because I love doing that too!
Anyway, just my tuppence worth.
Cheers,
Dan
For what it's worth, my favourite moment - the one I'd bottle if I could - driving the 650S was coming out of that fast left-right at Ascari and the smooth blend from massive front end bite at apex through lovely neutrality to just a hint of oversteer on the exit as the turbos spooled up, followed by the redline 'inertia push' upshift. Just magic. Not showboating, just effing fast and absolutely thrilling. And it's that harmonisation and calibration of all the controls - brake, chassis, throttle, aero, etc - that really works beautifully in the 650S.
So, yes, sideways tyres/pants on fire makes for good vids and pics. But it's the more subtle stuff that really marks out a proper car in my book, which is why I tried to focus more on that and not get carried away doing skids. Not to belittle the latter, of course. Because I love doing that too!
Anyway, just my tuppence worth.
Cheers,
Dan
Thanks for the input. I suppose at the end of the day it's between us intense enthusiasts (or nerds) who want to know these practicalities and limitations, and those who just like to know how fast it goes and how fast it can try to turn (I'm not saying people who like drifting and silly stuff are thick).It's up to you to find that balance in the content, which can't be easy I'm sure.
Dan
I think we’re probably just witnessing the learning process that McLaren is going through when it comes to dealing with auto journalists.
With the 12C they found out that regardless of what their empirical measurements said, because it wouldn’t drift easily journalistic groupthink set in and proclaimed that it was a very good car subjectively not quite as good as a 458.
What McLaren have done now is use the old trick of telling the journos that virtually everything on the car has been “tweaked”. Since motoring journalists love nothing more than demonstrating their incredible perceptive skills by claiming that they can tell the difference between a 19mm diameter anti-roll bar and a 20mm one, the 650S press-pack was catnip to them. They can now drive the car and happily pronounce that it’s a “revelation” compared to the 12C even though the quantitative differences are probably negligible...
With the 12C they found out that regardless of what their empirical measurements said, because it wouldn’t drift easily journalistic groupthink set in and proclaimed that it was a very good car subjectively not quite as good as a 458.
What McLaren have done now is use the old trick of telling the journos that virtually everything on the car has been “tweaked”. Since motoring journalists love nothing more than demonstrating their incredible perceptive skills by claiming that they can tell the difference between a 19mm diameter anti-roll bar and a 20mm one, the 650S press-pack was catnip to them. They can now drive the car and happily pronounce that it’s a “revelation” compared to the 12C even though the quantitative differences are probably negligible...
British Beef said:
Mr Whippy said:
Sooo, they've made everything perfect, but then went and ruined the looks
Nice work McLaren.
Very subjective, I think the facelift is a big improvement over the slightly dull old front end (which I thought received a lot of negative comments). Cant please everyone!!Nice work McLaren.
The new front end simply looks stuck on. Had they re-worked the sides and back properly then I'd probably be more open to the new design but as it stands it's really not nice.
Maybe in 18 months they'll make it more perfect again, 680RS, with updated sides and rear
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