RE: McLaren 650S: Review
Discussion
Cobnapint said:
Chicane-UK said:
blasos said:
Why are you proud to be British? Is that something you achieved? Did you, as a sperm or egg, have some say in the matter of getting your parents to bang in good ol' Britannia? I mean, someone may be grateful or happy to be born into or to have lived in a certain society. But to be proud? I'm pretty sure you had no input in the matter. Are you proud of McLaren? Did you happen to have a hand on the design, testing, production or some other phase of the creation of this product? Or are you just a brainwashed patriot who's proud because his parents got hot and sweaty in the same country as where this company was developed? Honest question. Think about it.
Deary me. Blasos, I'm not sure you should have been released back into the community quite so early.
Yes, for the record, I am a true Brit (not one, by the way, that has just climbed out the back of an artic, sung the national anthem without stammering and recited a few lines of Shakespeare before being given a piece of paper to prove it - but that's another subject), and looking round at what's going on in other parts of the world, I'm very proud to be one too.
McLaren are British, they are good, so I'm proud to be nationalistically associated with them. That's the way it works round here. Have another tablet FFS.
It is just like Muslims/Christians/Jews/Hindus being madly proud of being Muslim/Christian/Jewish/Hindu when they only reason they are on religion, rather than another, is that they were born into that religion.
Schnellmann said:
I am playing devil's advocate a bit..but why are you proud? You didn't answer any of Blasos' points. If you were born and bred British then you haven't made a conscious choice (some could argue that new immigrants could be prouder if they specifically came to the UK because they were drawn to the British way of life - although I doubt many do as I assume economic reasons are the primary driver).
It is just like Muslims/Christians/Jews/Hindus being madly proud of being Muslim/Christian/Jewish/Hindu when they only reason they are on religion, rather than another, is that they were born into that religion.
So I've had a Korean asking me why I think I'm so clever being proud to be British, and now somebody from Switzerland. It is just like Muslims/Christians/Jews/Hindus being madly proud of being Muslim/Christian/Jewish/Hindu when they only reason they are on religion, rather than another, is that they were born into that religion.
I'm sorry guys, but your bizarre questioning on this matter has probably provided a better answer than any I could come up with.
Cobnapint said:
Schnellmann said:
I am playing devil's advocate a bit..but why are you proud? You didn't answer any of Blasos' points. If you were born and bred British then you haven't made a conscious choice (some could argue that new immigrants could be prouder if they specifically came to the UK because they were drawn to the British way of life - although I doubt many do as I assume economic reasons are the primary driver).
It is just like Muslims/Christians/Jews/Hindus being madly proud of being Muslim/Christian/Jewish/Hindu when they only reason they are on religion, rather than another, is that they were born into that religion.
So I've had a Korean asking me why I think I'm so clever being proud to be British, and now somebody from Switzerland. It is just like Muslims/Christians/Jews/Hindus being madly proud of being Muslim/Christian/Jewish/Hindu when they only reason they are on religion, rather than another, is that they were born into that religion.
I'm sorry guys, but your bizarre questioning on this matter has probably provided a better answer than any I could come up with.
We made a conscious decision to move back to the UK so that our daughter could grow up in the UK and feel properly British (even though the standard of living and my career prospects were better in Switzerland).
I found Blasos' post quite confrontational. However, I also thought that he had a valid and interesting point as to why someone should be proud of belonging to a country they were born in (and so had not actively chosen).
It is interesting that you don't seem able to give a straight answer to the question.
dxbtiger said:
I wonder if MSO will put the 12C front on a 650S?
Actually I am sure they will, just a matter of cost!
Both Spiders are on display outside my office at the moment, 12C is a much better looking machine for me from the front than the 650S.
Edit - the wheels look s
t in the flesh as well
650S looks better to me, But i like both Actually I am sure they will, just a matter of cost!
Both Spiders are on display outside my office at the moment, 12C is a much better looking machine for me from the front than the 650S.
Edit - the wheels look s
t in the flesh as wellEdited by dxbtiger on Wednesday 2nd April 06:55
Schnellmann said:
Cobnapint said:
Schnellmann said:
I am playing devil's advocate a bit..but why are you proud? You didn't answer any of Blasos' points. If you were born and bred British then you haven't made a conscious choice (some could argue that new immigrants could be prouder if they specifically came to the UK because they were drawn to the British way of life - although I doubt many do as I assume economic reasons are the primary driver).
It is just like Muslims/Christians/Jews/Hindus being madly proud of being Muslim/Christian/Jewish/Hindu when they only reason they are on religion, rather than another, is that they were born into that religion.
So I've had a Korean asking me why I think I'm so clever being proud to be British, and now somebody from Switzerland. It is just like Muslims/Christians/Jews/Hindus being madly proud of being Muslim/Christian/Jewish/Hindu when they only reason they are on religion, rather than another, is that they were born into that religion.
I'm sorry guys, but your bizarre questioning on this matter has probably provided a better answer than any I could come up with.
We made a conscious decision to move back to the UK so that our daughter could grow up in the UK and feel properly British (even though the standard of living and my career prospects were better in Switzerland).
I found Blasos' post quite confrontational. However, I also thought that he had a valid and interesting point as to why someone should be proud of belonging to a country they were born in (and so had not actively chosen).
It is interesting that you don't seem able to give a straight answer to the question.
Schnellmann said:
Cobnapint said:
Schnellmann said:
I am playing devil's advocate a bit..but why are you proud? You didn't answer any of Blasos' points. If you were born and bred British then you haven't made a conscious choice (some could argue that new immigrants could be prouder if they specifically came to the UK because they were drawn to the British way of life - although I doubt many do as I assume economic reasons are the primary driver).
It is just like Muslims/Christians/Jews/Hindus being madly proud of being Muslim/Christian/Jewish/Hindu when they only reason they are on religion, rather than another, is that they were born into that religion.
So I've had a Korean asking me why I think I'm so clever being proud to be British, and now somebody from Switzerland. It is just like Muslims/Christians/Jews/Hindus being madly proud of being Muslim/Christian/Jewish/Hindu when they only reason they are on religion, rather than another, is that they were born into that religion.
I'm sorry guys, but your bizarre questioning on this matter has probably provided a better answer than any I could come up with.
We made a conscious decision to move back to the UK so that our daughter could grow up in the UK and feel properly British (even though the standard of living and my career prospects were better in Switzerland).
I found Blasos' post quite confrontational. However, I also thought that he had a valid and interesting point as to why someone should be proud of belonging to a country they were born in (and so had not actively chosen).
It is interesting that you don't seem able to give a straight answer to the question.
Being proud of the achievements of fellow countrymen, be they individuals or companies, is of course simply an expression of patriotism - it's actually a very good example of what patriotism is. You don't need to have had a hand in choosing to live in a specific country to feel patriotic nor do you need to have had a hand in the achievements you are celebrating to be proud and this focussing on whether someone chose to live in a specific country determining whether they have the right to feel proud is bizarre
I'm not sure anyone should ever be made to feel the need to justify or explain their patriotism - I imagine for most people it's not something they have sat down and thought about and is in fact more instinctive
Blasos and yourself may genuinely wonder what is behind the instinctive patriotism of millions of people around the world but I'm not sure attacking a post innocuously mentioning they are proud of a car manufacturer from their own country is the most sensible way of going about it
jonby said:
Here's a question on that theme I'm genuinely interested in. I drive a high performance second car (it's a whole other debate whether V12 Vantage is a sportscar or a supercar !!!) and drive it pretty hard, from multi day Alpine road trips to track days. I drive it pretty much as fast as I can, where road circumstances allow. I often do this with fellow owners of similar types of cars. Never once do we talk about trying to drift the cars. I have a friend who traded in his 12C for a CGT, to sit alongside his F40, because he found the 12C too boring to drive despite being faster than both but again, he never talked about drifting and he is an amateur racing driver.
But there seems to be a trend in reviews over the last few years to talk about the ability of cars to drift, to the extent it impacts on the overall rating given by the journo to the car. How many potential owners in the real world use drifting capabilities as an influencing factor when choosing their car ? I'm really not sure whether I'm in a minority in finding this aspect almost irrelevant but would be fascinated to find out
Right I'll stop posting now, time to work !
I suppose the drifting craze has come about from the (not wholly untrue) perception that a car being able to hold a long drift is usually one that is considered well sorted handling wise with predictable behaviour at the limit. Which is important I guess even to the average performance car owner who might not be going sideways every roundabout but would like to know if he runs slightly out of talent on track the car isn't going to spit him into a barrier.... The current trend of reviewers to be spending most of the video sideways is taking this to extreme though I agree.... I suppose once a few have done so and it's proven quite popular every other reviewer wants to get stuck in to show he's not any inferior in driving compared to the competition.But there seems to be a trend in reviews over the last few years to talk about the ability of cars to drift, to the extent it impacts on the overall rating given by the journo to the car. How many potential owners in the real world use drifting capabilities as an influencing factor when choosing their car ? I'm really not sure whether I'm in a minority in finding this aspect almost irrelevant but would be fascinated to find out
Right I'll stop posting now, time to work !
jonby said:
Here's a question on that theme I'm genuinely interested in. I drive a high performance second car (it's a whole other debate whether V12 Vantage is a sportscar or a supercar !!!) and drive it pretty hard, from multi day Alpine road trips to track days. I drive it pretty much as fast as I can, where road circumstances allow. I often do this with fellow owners of similar types of cars. Never once do we talk about trying to drift the cars. I have a friend who traded in his 12C for a CGT, to sit alongside his F40, because he found the 12C too boring to drive despite being faster than both but again, he never talked about drifting and he is an amateur racing driver.
But there seems to be a trend in reviews over the last few years to talk about the ability of cars to drift, to the extent it impacts on the overall rating given by the journo to the car. How many potential owners in the real world use drifting capabilities as an influencing factor when choosing their car ? I'm really not sure whether I'm in a minority in finding this aspect almost irrelevant but would be fascinated to find out
Right I'll stop posting now, time to work !
You've made some excellent points throughout this thread, I agree with the above.But there seems to be a trend in reviews over the last few years to talk about the ability of cars to drift, to the extent it impacts on the overall rating given by the journo to the car. How many potential owners in the real world use drifting capabilities as an influencing factor when choosing their car ? I'm really not sure whether I'm in a minority in finding this aspect almost irrelevant but would be fascinated to find out
Right I'll stop posting now, time to work !
Indeed, a very good point jonby.
I've driven pretty much every supercar from the last 9 years extensively, on road but also on tracks and never have I desired to drift one of them.
However, I do love to watch it being done by TG, Harris etc, especially in slow mo. But it shouldn't have any impact on the review of a car as it's pointless to judge a car on this in the real world.
I've driven pretty much every supercar from the last 9 years extensively, on road but also on tracks and never have I desired to drift one of them.
However, I do love to watch it being done by TG, Harris etc, especially in slow mo. But it shouldn't have any impact on the review of a car as it's pointless to judge a car on this in the real world.
dxbtiger said:
I wonder if MSO will put the 12C front on a 650S?
Actually I am sure they will, just a matter of cost!
Both Spiders are on display outside my office at the moment, 12C is a much better looking machine for me from the front than the 650S.
Edit - the wheels look st in the flesh as well
the 650S looks a bitsa compared with the 12C, however it sounds like in all other respects it is an improvement. not that any of this is particularly relevant to me :-(Actually I am sure they will, just a matter of cost!
Both Spiders are on display outside my office at the moment, 12C is a much better looking machine for me from the front than the 650S.
Edit - the wheels look s
t in the flesh as wellEdited by dxbtiger on Wednesday 2nd April 06:55
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