RE: Ariel Atom 3.5R
Discussion
http://youtu.be/FT2W1cpxqX4 part 1
http://youtu.be/ZSrdzXDH04M part 2
Nothing too scientific, but interesting none the less.
Atom vs Caterham vs Lotus.
http://youtu.be/ZSrdzXDH04M part 2
Nothing too scientific, but interesting none the less.
Atom vs Caterham vs Lotus.
BigBen said:
For me it's a moot point unless Caterham go beyond their target market of the malnourished and midgets I won't be driving one any time soon.
Have you sat in a CSR or SV Caterham? They are wider, longer and taller and can fit some big blokes in them. At 6ft and 14 stone, I am not particularly malnourished or attracted to employment in carnivals, but I fit in a standard car. SV or CSR with lowered floors, can fit guys of 6ft6in plus, I even heard of one guy who was 6ft9in getting in one. The original R500 lap was in freezing conditions and they couldn't get heat in the tyres. It was confidently predicted the R500 would have been near the top on a slightly warmer day. The 620R also went round in the wet.
Atoms are great, but they do seem tricker to drive and often a bit slower on trackdays than sevens. The quoted weight is also "ambitious" as I have heard MUCH higher weights for atoms than thos equotes.
dino ferrana said:
Have you sat in a CSR or SV Caterham? They are wider, longer and taller and can fit some big blokes in them. At 6ft and 14 stone, I am not particularly malnourished or attracted to employment in carnivals, but I fit in a standard car. SV or CSR with lowered floors, can fit guys of 6ft6in plus, I even heard of one guy who was 6ft9in getting in one.
I'm 6'1" and 94kg. I just about fit into a normal caterham, but it's not comfortable and the gear lever is mostly wrist rather than arm. Feet for big folk can be a problem (I wear race boots, but others at events I go to quite often have to take a trainer off to fit!).In an SV I am quite comfortable without even needing to put the seat all the way back.
dino ferrana said:
BigBen said:
For me it's a moot point unless Caterham go beyond their target market of the malnourished and midgets I won't be driving one any time soon.
Have you sat in a CSR or SV Caterham? They are wider, longer and taller and can fit some big blokes in them. At 6ft and 14 stone, I am not particularly malnourished or attracted to employment in carnivals, but I fit in a standard car. SV or CSR with lowered floors, can fit guys of 6ft6in plus, I even heard of one guy who was 6ft9in getting in one. The original R500 lap was in freezing conditions and they couldn't get heat in the tyres. It was confidently predicted the R500 would have been near the top on a slightly warmer day. The 620R also went round in the wet.
Atoms are great, but they do seem tricker to drive and often a bit slower on trackdays than sevens. The quoted weight is also "ambitious" as I have heard MUCH higher weights for atoms than thos equotes.
Agree that they sometimes seem slower than sevens on trackdays, however that is on a trackday where the range of abilities is huge, I have passed 300bhp Atoms in my lesser model, I have also been passed by 160 bhp ones that were better driven.
My first Atom was about 550kg but that was pre-Honda engines the Rover K-series being a lot lighter so would expect the current cars are closer to 600.
TheFinners said:
I do love how Ariel looked at the existing Atom and thought: 'hmm, this could do with an extra 40bhp' 
Well putting my cynical hat on I think they looked at the Atom V8 and went 'lets put the bodywork on the normal Atom and charge LOADSA MONEY! MWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!'I know it's a bit faster but it's just a pulley swap and a remap isn't it? Still if you have to ask the price...
CraigyMc said:
mikesalt said:
It'd be interesting to pitch this against the Caterham 620R. Straight lines, the Atom is going to destroy the Caterham but on track, I don't know. Pistonheads, are you up for arranging such a challenge?
Also, throw the Westfield Mega S2000 with the optional supercharger into the mix. That's good for 347 BHP as long as the cooling holds up.
If they can run on the same tyres as each other, that would be an interesting fair fight.Also, throw the Westfield Mega S2000 with the optional supercharger into the mix. That's good for 347 BHP as long as the cooling holds up.
RichB1 said:
I think the main reason for the additional cost is just the sadev sequential box. They are crazy expensive.
Good boxes though. They are smooth enough that when you're under power on or near the limit of cornering, you can change up without unsettling the rear very much, unlike a manual box.CraigyMc said:
RichB1 said:
I think the main reason for the additional cost is just the sadev sequential box. They are crazy expensive.
Good boxes though. They are smooth enough that when you're under power on or near the limit of cornering, you can change up without unsettling the rear very much, unlike a manual box.
BigBen said:
I have driven an SV but it was not comfortable. I am 6"6 and built like a company director and the Caterham does not have enough room. CSR with lowered floor may help. I suspect Ariel have got a lot of customers because they don't fit Caterhams, certainly the main reason I originally got an Atom. Per my comment above I think the Atom is tricker to drive than the Caterham, but that is part of the fun.
Agree that they sometimes seem slower than sevens on trackdays, however that is on a trackday where the range of abilities is huge, I have passed 300bhp Atoms in my lesser model, I have also been passed by 160 bhp ones that were better driven.
My first Atom was about 550kg but that was pre-Honda engines the Rover K-series being a lot lighter so would expect the current cars are closer to 600.
Fair enough chap, sounds like you've had a good go and found it not to your comfort. Only thing I would add was the first time I sat in a Caterham it felt like there was one pedal and that my legs were impossibly close together. However, I did find that after driving for a little while it became comfortable. This wasn't instant, but I found that I was just used to bigger cars with loads of cockpit space and it was an adjustment. Once adjusted I have found I can do long journeys over many hours and I don't get out stiff or sore (which I have from some conventional cars). Agree that they sometimes seem slower than sevens on trackdays, however that is on a trackday where the range of abilities is huge, I have passed 300bhp Atoms in my lesser model, I have also been passed by 160 bhp ones that were better driven.
My first Atom was about 550kg but that was pre-Honda engines the Rover K-series being a lot lighter so would expect the current cars are closer to 600.
Wonder why they still quote 550? It isn't like 600 is anywhere near a modern tintop! Since the K days the car has a heavier engine, supercharger, intercooler, oil cooler, wings and hydraulic actuators for the gearbox. That adds a fair bit, still INCREDIBLY light compared to hot hatch, but not going to be 550. Anyone seen a real cornerweight for an Atom 300? I know Caterhams are often heavier than quoted weights, but it is usually a bit closer than that.
Skylinecrazy said:
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Of course not. That is why I am seeing the wheat through the chaff of big wow number.BigBen said:
Give him a chance, I was about to place an order for one of the cheaper better cars that he obviously knows how to make.
MNR, MK Indy, Roadrunner Racing, Westfield to name the popular ones. Turbo'ed/SC'ed F20C jobbie can be sorted for £30k easily. That'll be about 450bhp and 580kg 
CraigyMc said:
The guys I know who have atoms are enthusiasts (do you buy an Atom if you aren't one?) - and all of them can drive pretty well because they do trackdays, things like Palmersport and in some cases, actual MSA licensed motorsport and things like the VLN races at the Nurburgring.
If you want, come to the full Palmersport day on August 6th, introduce yourself to me, and if you're quicker than the atom guys I know, I'll give you a tenner of my own money.
C
So you want me to spend £400 on a silly Palmersport day for the prospect of winning a tenner?! I'm at Blyton Park on Sunday, feel free to turn up If you want, come to the full Palmersport day on August 6th, introduce yourself to me, and if you're quicker than the atom guys I know, I'll give you a tenner of my own money.
C
I have no doubt there are people who own Atoms who know how to drive them but I have yet to witness them on track. usually they belt it on the straights and are like Bambi on ice around the corners.Usually, the guys to watch are in the Clio 172/182s.
rhinochopig said:
There's a lot of expensive kit in it though. I would imagine you wouldn't get much change out of 15k for a SADEV box and another 5k for something like a geartronics paddle-shift.
Yeah there is some silly expensive kit in there and yes that box is probably the price you say. Still, that is £69k minus the box. It's a lot of money.Zumbruk said:
Blimey, you can get internet service in the dark mephitic place your head is obviously lodged?
Yes, the real world is a dingy place, but I choose to live there rather than the glitzy glam of pub ammo world.dino ferrana said:
Just looked back at a previous thread and someone had weighed a supercharged atom at 660kg. Now I can't vouch for the accuracy of equipment used, but that does suggest a BIG increase over 550!
Doesn't surprise me in the least.RocketRabbit said:
CraigyMc said:
The guys I know who have atoms are enthusiasts (do you buy an Atom if you aren't one?) - and all of them can drive pretty well because they do trackdays, things like Palmersport and in some cases, actual MSA licensed motorsport and things like the VLN races at the Nurburgring.
If you want, come to the full Palmersport day on August 6th, introduce yourself to me, and if you're quicker than the atom guys I know, I'll give you a tenner of my own money.
C
So you want me to spend £400 on a silly Palmersport day for the prospect of winning a tenner?! I'm at Blyton Park on Sunday, feel free to turn up If you want, come to the full Palmersport day on August 6th, introduce yourself to me, and if you're quicker than the atom guys I know, I'll give you a tenner of my own money.
C
I have no doubt there are people who own Atoms who know how to drive them but I have yet to witness them on track. usually they belt it on the straights and are like Bambi on ice around the corners.Usually, the guys to watch are in the Clio 172/182s.
Of course it's not about the money, it's about your statement that atom drivers are slow, I'd like you to prove you're faster than the ones I know, and if you can then I'll happily give you a tenner. If you can't I'd quite like it if you said you were wrong, obviously I'll do likewise if you're faster than them.
The Atom is one of the events at Palmersport which is run against the clock - everyone who does the full day has all their laps timed, and everyone's fastest laps go on the board. I've been on a few of these days now, so I have a reasonable feel for the standard. It'd be interesting to know how you'd get on.
C
Edited for speeling.
Edited by CraigyMc on Friday 9th May 16:52
RocketRabbit said:
BigBen said:
Give him a chance, I was about to place an order for one of the cheaper better cars that he obviously knows how to make.
MNR, MK Indy, Roadrunner Racing, Westfield to name the popular ones. Turbo'ed/SC'ed F20C jobbie can be sorted for £30k easily. That'll be about 450bhp and 580kg CraigyMc said:
A Palmersport full day is actually more like £900 depending on how you buy it, and yes, I'd like you to back up your claim by attending one. It's not like it's £900 down the drain as it's a pretty entertaining event.
Of course it's not about the money, it's about your statement that atom drivers are slow, I'd like you to prove you're faster than the ones I know, and if you can then I'll happily give you a tenner. If you can't I'd quite like it if you said you were wrong, obviously I'll do likewise if you're faster than them.
The Atom is one of the events at Palmersport which is run against the clock - everyone who does the full day has all their laps timed, and everyone's fastest laps go on the board. I've been on a few of these days now, so I have a reasonable feel for the standard. It'd be interesting to know how you'd get on.
C
Edited for speeling.
£900 is 4 track days.Of course it's not about the money, it's about your statement that atom drivers are slow, I'd like you to prove you're faster than the ones I know, and if you can then I'll happily give you a tenner. If you can't I'd quite like it if you said you were wrong, obviously I'll do likewise if you're faster than them.
The Atom is one of the events at Palmersport which is run against the clock - everyone who does the full day has all their laps timed, and everyone's fastest laps go on the board. I've been on a few of these days now, so I have a reasonable feel for the standard. It'd be interesting to know how you'd get on.
C
Edited for speeling.
Edited by CraigyMc on Friday 9th May 16:52
BigBen said:
I think you have to build all of those yourself and possibly using second hand engines / gearboxes. Also don't think any of them are likely to be 'better', specifically they won't be as developed as a Caterham or Ariel.
Factory can happily build them for you. And just because they aren't as expensive, doesn't mean they won't be as well developed. The chassis on the RRR SR2 is a work of art. Westfield have jsut paid to do extensive research on Reynolds steels for a 17% weight reduction combined with 30% stiffness increase. Besides, if you know what you're doing, building it is an enjoyable experience.Edited - forgot about Westfield.
Edited by RocketRabbit on Friday 9th May 17:30
RocketRabbit said:
BigBen said:
I think you have to build all of those yourself and possibly using second hand engines / gearboxes. Also don't think any of them are likely to be 'better', specifically they won't be as developed as a Caterham or Ariel.
Factory can happily build them for you. And just because they aren't as expensive, doesn't mean they won't be as well developed. The chassis on the RRR SR2 is a work of art. Westfield have jsut paid to do extensive research on Reynolds steels for a 17% weight reduction combined with 30% stiffness increase. Besides, if you know what you're doing, building it is an enjoyable experience.Edited - forgot about Westfield.
Edited by RocketRabbit on Friday 9th May 17:30
Ben
Welshbeef said:
All this talk about light weight what about the drivers weight? If you have a 11stone chap or an 18 stone chap it will have a note able impact to power to weight also quarter tank filling v full tank would again change the acceleration rate.
Simple yet wonderfully obvious point.And yes, it works. I've a Fisher Fury with an R1 engine (~165hp, not going to worry pub bores) that weighed in at 427kg at last corner weighting. About 18months ago I started looking for performance upgrades and set to work on myself - binned 26kg in all, back to the weight I was at 18yrs old. And easily maintained since then
That's 5+% power:weight improvement for the car with me in it - for free!; fueled and running we are at 505kg. Not many will get remotely close; and yes it does make the thing even more of a joy to drive. I couldn't care less about outright speed.
Edited by Huff on Friday 9th May 23:36
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