RE: £220K for a 964 RS
Discussion
rossb said:
...all old car/bike expenditure is an investment - and precise figures are presented in a rather opaque manner...
Obviously! 
Engine needs to be rebuilt to preserve the cars value.
Ugh really? I guess it makes sense.
Might as well upgrade it while I'm doing it, it will cost about the same and the car will be worth a lot more.
Well definately do it then.
Sigh- I suppose, if you recon I should
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 13th May 20:02
rossb said:
Fair comment - like the ex-wife bit. If I am owning up - my other half is told all old car/bike expenditure is an investment - and precise figures are presented in a rather opaque manner - if on the very odd occasion I have not dropped a load of money on another money pit - (which is what happens frequently) I tend to try and make the most of it to deflect attention from the less successful purchases. Anyway I am serious about an RSR - and will purchase a lottery ticket on way home tonight - even if I am buying in a heated market.
"precise figures are presented in a rather opaque manner" - I'm familiar with that! The comment about the 968 CS is harsh when people are getting worked up over the 964 RS. While punters have been waxing lyrically over the feel of the 964. They are forgetting the other better handling version from Porsche which really is a better 'drivers' car.
But hey don't let that get in the way of you raising your hand at an RM or Haggerty Auction.
But hey don't let that get in the way of you raising your hand at an RM or Haggerty Auction.
One of, if not the first ph carpools. I slevered at the time.
http://www.pistonheads.com/porsche/default.asp?sto...
http://www.pistonheads.com/porsche/default.asp?sto...
fblm said:
ORD said:
Nope. I would sell it in a hearbeat. The prices are absolutely absurd and are not prices for a car as a car, so I would not use it as a car; and I would not want it as an antique to sit in a garage, so I would cash in and pay off £100k of my mortgage and use the rest to buy 2 excelllent modern cars.
Spending £200k on old car is an exercise in speculative investment. No more and no less.
I disagree. You have no idea at all about the motivation of the buyer. Something tells me he's not worried about paying off £100k of his mortgage! I'd even hazard a guess he's already got 2 excellent modern cars. I dont think an RS is worth even 100k let alone over 200 so massively overpaying at auction plus fees when there are plenty cheaper for sale elsewhere would also seem like a bizarre way to 'invest'. As for not using the car, well thats just your opinion... mine will be getting its freshly rebuilt 3.8's nuts thrashed off it on track, just like it has the last 10 years. My kids can worry about how much it's worth. Spending £200k on old car is an exercise in speculative investment. No more and no less.
ORD said:
fblm said:
ORD said:
Nope. I would sell it in a hearbeat. The prices are absolutely absurd and are not prices for a car as a car, so I would not use it as a car; and I would not want it as an antique to sit in a garage, so I would cash in and pay off £100k of my mortgage and use the rest to buy 2 excelllent modern cars.
Spending £200k on old car is an exercise in speculative investment. No more and no less.
I disagree. You have no idea at all about the motivation of the buyer. Something tells me he's not worried about paying off £100k of his mortgage! I'd even hazard a guess he's already got 2 excellent modern cars. I dont think an RS is worth even 100k let alone over 200 so massively overpaying at auction plus fees when there are plenty cheaper for sale elsewhere would also seem like a bizarre way to 'invest'. As for not using the car, well thats just your opinion... mine will be getting its freshly rebuilt 3.8's nuts thrashed off it on track, just like it has the last 10 years. My kids can worry about how much it's worth. Spending £200k on old car is an exercise in speculative investment. No more and no less.
You stated that spending 200k on an old car could only be a speculative investment and you are wrong. I have done so because I want the car and I want prices lower, preferably much lower, so I can buy stuff I can't currently afford.
I read an article, in Octane I think, that was saying that the Arab, Russian, Chinese markets have nt begun to wake up to the whole western classic car culture, favouring the latest exotics and super luxury barges. As those emerging markets tastes mature the newly wealthy collectors will search the world for the must have iconic cars such as these special low volume 911s to add to their fleet. I think this market is set to continue growing and is currently largely driven by the European/US markets.
At least it's an investment that you can drive, touch, admire unlike sinking your money in some anonymous fund and the highlight being an annual statement less management fees. The challenge for the mere mortals is to spot the next icon car early and what cars the Russian billionaires of tomorrow are dreaming of now?
At least it's an investment that you can drive, touch, admire unlike sinking your money in some anonymous fund and the highlight being an annual statement less management fees. The challenge for the mere mortals is to spot the next icon car early and what cars the Russian billionaires of tomorrow are dreaming of now?
55 times better than a Boxster ? That depends on the criteria you're judging them by. They're 55 times more rare, of that I'm certain. And that, I suspect, counts for a lot.
I'd say they're 55 times more engaging, tactile and "special" to drive than any Boxster.
0-60 ? Quite frankly if that's your benchmark for what makes a car great (or not great) you most likely won't get the RS.
Overly stiff ride ? Grow a f*ckin pair (it's an urban myth, so get one with decent, modern tyres (ie not ten year old Michelin MXX's) fresh dampers, sensible geo settings and ride heights, and you'll find them an absolute blast for A & B road hooning.
Build a rep on the cheap ? yep, course it can be done, but it's the little things that make them. Take the ali bonnet for example, lift it up ('cause there's no gas struts to help you) prop it up using the ali strut (who's end goes into a specially formed nut that doubles up as the securing nut for the strut top mount).
Pull on the inner door latch release pulls (formed from doubled up loops of seat belt material) feel the way they release the door latches so mechanically (then try the pastiche of the same idea on the Cayman R and feel how, as a sop to the RS, they've tried to incorporate the same idea into a door trim that wasn't designed for it (neither was the release mechanism) and feel how utterly sh*te it feels in it's action when compared to the original. It's what happens when the marketing men decree what goes into a car, rather than letting an engineer decide.
Put the dainty key into the ignition switch and turn it against the perfectly weighted spring loading of the switch. Just as your wrist starts to run out of articulation, the starter kicks in and the flat six bursts into life. If your foot isn't on the clutch, you'll hear the sound of the gears in the transmission rattling away as the lack of a dual mass flywheel (and the harmonic damping it usually provides) allows the gears to chatter excitedly within their casing.
Sit there and wait for some heat to percolate through the flat six, and soon after you'll be able to hear the thick, glutinous oil coursing through the pipes running the length of the car as the precious life blood is pumped towards the thermostat, only to be sent back to be warmed further without troubling the car's oil cooler.
Press down the floor hinged clutch pedal with it's initially awkward over-centre action, then gently palm the slightly baulky gearlever into first. Press the accelerator expecting the tardy, nee lazy, damped response most modern cars provide, and find this car's powerplant reacts instantaneously and you've just encouraged the rev counter around to 3000rpm, and not the 1200rpm you'd intended.
Try again, but being too timid, you stall it .......
Another attempt, this time you succeed as the car's low down torque aids your franky pathetic attempts to master the over-centre clutch, the hair trigger throttle response and the recalcitrant gearbox.
Out on the open road, the oil temperature gauge shows signs of life, the gearbox becomes less baulky and the steering starts to lighten with speed.
Twenty minutes in and the engine is now nicely warmed through. Let the fun commence ......
From your gentle fifth gear cruise, change down into third and slowly depress the long travel, floor hinged throttle pedal all the way to it's stop. The induction noise hardens and increases in volume, the drivetrain grumbles as you accelerate through the rev range and the lack of dual mass flywheel creates harsh resonances that sound more akin to a coffee grinder. But keep accelerating and they'll disappear to leave just the mechanical sound of the flat six along with it's induction noise and the cooling fan shifting vast quantities of soothing, cool air over the barrels and cylinder heads buried within the bowels of that nondescript looking engine compartment.
At 6,800 rpm in third the gamee's all over and its time to start the process all over again in fourth.
A quick, gentle lift of the throttle, along with a short, quick prod of the clutch, allows you to thread the perfectly weighted, short(ish) throw, gear lever through the gate.
A corner approaches, so you lift off the throttle and change down, you get back on the throttle and turn the steering wheel, initially the helm feels stodgy, heavy and unresponsive, you curse the lack of power steering as the nose seems unwilling to cooperate with your request for a change in direction.
But wait, the wheel in front of you isn't the sole method of altering the car's trajectory, next time try using the brakes to keep the weight over the front wheels whilst you turn them, then carefully chose the moment to get back on the throttle (hard) to utilise both the grunt of that flat six AND the traction afforded as a result of its position over the rear wheels.
Suddenly 260hp seems more than enough to make indecently rapid progress, but more than that, you're a simply massive part of the process of going fast, you have to be, because without your guiding hand, your perfect timing, your ability to deftly come off the brakes and seamlessly reapply the throttle, this car doesn't steer, it needs, no relies, on you to manage it's imperfect weight distribution.
It's hot sweaty work in the summer, no aircon along with no insulation means that a large part of the heat generated by that 3.6 litre engine finds it's way into the cabin. Soon your back will be wringing wet and that "moist" feeling is only exacerbated by the leather facings on some of the most perfectly formed bucket seats ever to grace a car. Supportive enough to enable you to retain control without having to hang onto the steering wheel, but not so all enveloping as modern race seat.
On the right roads, driving experiences don't come much better, or indeed more intense.
And when you've had your hit, you'll not need to race all the way home, instead you'll be happy to potter at 6/10's, watching as other far more powerful cars overtake you, safe in the knowledge that despite what the manufacturers of their cars may tell them, their owners will have little or no idea what tactility, engagement and fun behind the wheel really are.
Finally you'll arrive home, hot, sweaty and possibly slightly deaf..... You'll undo your seatbelt, remove the keys from the ignition, wind your window up and step out.When you slam the door shut, two things will stand out :
Firstly the delightful noise the door makes when it closes. Partly a function of it's bank vault build quality, and partly the fact that it's unencumbered by door pockets, airbags, central locking motors, electric windows or their switchgear.
And the second thing that will stand out when you slam the door shut ? A light, gentle, barely discernible tinkling noise......
Those that have owned and driven these wonderful cars will most likely know what this "tinkling" noise is, whilst those that think they're an overpriced, underperforming, anachronism, probably won't. But neither will they care........
I'd say they're 55 times more engaging, tactile and "special" to drive than any Boxster.
0-60 ? Quite frankly if that's your benchmark for what makes a car great (or not great) you most likely won't get the RS.
Overly stiff ride ? Grow a f*ckin pair (it's an urban myth, so get one with decent, modern tyres (ie not ten year old Michelin MXX's) fresh dampers, sensible geo settings and ride heights, and you'll find them an absolute blast for A & B road hooning.
Build a rep on the cheap ? yep, course it can be done, but it's the little things that make them. Take the ali bonnet for example, lift it up ('cause there's no gas struts to help you) prop it up using the ali strut (who's end goes into a specially formed nut that doubles up as the securing nut for the strut top mount).
Pull on the inner door latch release pulls (formed from doubled up loops of seat belt material) feel the way they release the door latches so mechanically (then try the pastiche of the same idea on the Cayman R and feel how, as a sop to the RS, they've tried to incorporate the same idea into a door trim that wasn't designed for it (neither was the release mechanism) and feel how utterly sh*te it feels in it's action when compared to the original. It's what happens when the marketing men decree what goes into a car, rather than letting an engineer decide.
Put the dainty key into the ignition switch and turn it against the perfectly weighted spring loading of the switch. Just as your wrist starts to run out of articulation, the starter kicks in and the flat six bursts into life. If your foot isn't on the clutch, you'll hear the sound of the gears in the transmission rattling away as the lack of a dual mass flywheel (and the harmonic damping it usually provides) allows the gears to chatter excitedly within their casing.
Sit there and wait for some heat to percolate through the flat six, and soon after you'll be able to hear the thick, glutinous oil coursing through the pipes running the length of the car as the precious life blood is pumped towards the thermostat, only to be sent back to be warmed further without troubling the car's oil cooler.
Press down the floor hinged clutch pedal with it's initially awkward over-centre action, then gently palm the slightly baulky gearlever into first. Press the accelerator expecting the tardy, nee lazy, damped response most modern cars provide, and find this car's powerplant reacts instantaneously and you've just encouraged the rev counter around to 3000rpm, and not the 1200rpm you'd intended.
Try again, but being too timid, you stall it .......
Another attempt, this time you succeed as the car's low down torque aids your franky pathetic attempts to master the over-centre clutch, the hair trigger throttle response and the recalcitrant gearbox.
Out on the open road, the oil temperature gauge shows signs of life, the gearbox becomes less baulky and the steering starts to lighten with speed.
Twenty minutes in and the engine is now nicely warmed through. Let the fun commence ......
From your gentle fifth gear cruise, change down into third and slowly depress the long travel, floor hinged throttle pedal all the way to it's stop. The induction noise hardens and increases in volume, the drivetrain grumbles as you accelerate through the rev range and the lack of dual mass flywheel creates harsh resonances that sound more akin to a coffee grinder. But keep accelerating and they'll disappear to leave just the mechanical sound of the flat six along with it's induction noise and the cooling fan shifting vast quantities of soothing, cool air over the barrels and cylinder heads buried within the bowels of that nondescript looking engine compartment.
At 6,800 rpm in third the gamee's all over and its time to start the process all over again in fourth.
A quick, gentle lift of the throttle, along with a short, quick prod of the clutch, allows you to thread the perfectly weighted, short(ish) throw, gear lever through the gate.
A corner approaches, so you lift off the throttle and change down, you get back on the throttle and turn the steering wheel, initially the helm feels stodgy, heavy and unresponsive, you curse the lack of power steering as the nose seems unwilling to cooperate with your request for a change in direction.
But wait, the wheel in front of you isn't the sole method of altering the car's trajectory, next time try using the brakes to keep the weight over the front wheels whilst you turn them, then carefully chose the moment to get back on the throttle (hard) to utilise both the grunt of that flat six AND the traction afforded as a result of its position over the rear wheels.
Suddenly 260hp seems more than enough to make indecently rapid progress, but more than that, you're a simply massive part of the process of going fast, you have to be, because without your guiding hand, your perfect timing, your ability to deftly come off the brakes and seamlessly reapply the throttle, this car doesn't steer, it needs, no relies, on you to manage it's imperfect weight distribution.
It's hot sweaty work in the summer, no aircon along with no insulation means that a large part of the heat generated by that 3.6 litre engine finds it's way into the cabin. Soon your back will be wringing wet and that "moist" feeling is only exacerbated by the leather facings on some of the most perfectly formed bucket seats ever to grace a car. Supportive enough to enable you to retain control without having to hang onto the steering wheel, but not so all enveloping as modern race seat.
On the right roads, driving experiences don't come much better, or indeed more intense.
And when you've had your hit, you'll not need to race all the way home, instead you'll be happy to potter at 6/10's, watching as other far more powerful cars overtake you, safe in the knowledge that despite what the manufacturers of their cars may tell them, their owners will have little or no idea what tactility, engagement and fun behind the wheel really are.
Finally you'll arrive home, hot, sweaty and possibly slightly deaf..... You'll undo your seatbelt, remove the keys from the ignition, wind your window up and step out.When you slam the door shut, two things will stand out :
Firstly the delightful noise the door makes when it closes. Partly a function of it's bank vault build quality, and partly the fact that it's unencumbered by door pockets, airbags, central locking motors, electric windows or their switchgear.
And the second thing that will stand out when you slam the door shut ? A light, gentle, barely discernible tinkling noise......
Those that have owned and driven these wonderful cars will most likely know what this "tinkling" noise is, whilst those that think they're an overpriced, underperforming, anachronism, probably won't. But neither will they care........
Slippydiff said:
Pull on the inner door latch release pulls (formed from doubled up loops of seat belt material) feel the way they release the door latches so mechanically (then try the pastiche of the same idea on the Cayman R and feel how, as a sop to the RS, they've tried to incorporate the same idea into a door trim that wasn't designed for it (neither was the release mechanism) and feel how utterly sh*te it feels in it's action when compared to the original. It's what happens when the marketing men decree what goes into a car, rather than letting an engineer decide.
]
Damn you SlippyD, I am fortunate enough to have a 964RS NGT and a Cayman R. Pulling on the door release strap on the Cayman will now always feel like I am cheating with a cheap wannabe.]
s m said:
I think those prose would make an Allegro sound like the Ultimate Driving Machine, let alone the RS
I we thinking something similar about a diesel hatch:"The sensuous timbre of the dpf re-gen raising the pulse and arousing an almost bestial longing in anticipation of those newly burnt-clean internals and the potential for yet further particulate obstruction, with the tingling excitement brought about by the ever-present fear of imminent DMF, injector or fuel pump failure. Mmmmm"
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 14th May 10:06
Aroma of Petrol wafting in the air with.. just inhale it through your nose to get the full visceral intoxicating pleasure when you are piling in too hot to a particularly damp switchback, lifting off smartly,you felt the back end go light, enjoyed the fertile budding of a full on slide. you simply gave it a dab of oppo and you were away.
The Porka 964 is a b
h. And you spanked it.
The Porka 964 is a b
h. And you spanked it.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff