RE: Ferrari LaFerrari: Review
Discussion
LDN said:
Max_Torque said:
The phrase "know thy enemy" seems apt here:
What's the background to this? Is it just a mule for them to dissect or is it a genuine visitor..?It's European, so there are probably less than 50 candidates at the moment - shouldn't take McLaren long to find out if they want to.
It's an Italian registered car too - I wonder if the original owner sold it on to a certain Maranello based manufacturer or if it's simply a HNWI popping by to see his Lala being screwed together...
CraigyMc said:
Gary C said:
CraigyMc said:
Bezor said:
I think Ferrari has nailed it just like they did with 458. There are some very essential ingredients that needs to be there in a desirable sports car, be it 458 or LaF and Chris mentioned some of them. Effortless driving and easy access to the limit. In other words a drivers car, just like 458. The drama it makes with the sound of V12. The modern aerodynamics Ferrari has used in this car that are more than enough. And obviously in comfort mode it's as comfy, if not more, than P1.
Mclaren on the other hand feels too much performance oriented. P1 has the reworked 3,8L turbo engine and extreme aerodynamics with a huge double diffuser and an even bigger wing in the back that rises a feet or 2 in the air. It's more of a race car than sports car, a line Mclaren seems to cross without maybe even knowing. That may be the reason P1 has such extreme aerodynamics that would rival a Le Mans group C car.
12C was a bit faster than 458 but lost in all important areas. Seems like it's the same all over again.
You're nearly an order of magnitude off in your downforce understanding.Mclaren on the other hand feels too much performance oriented. P1 has the reworked 3,8L turbo engine and extreme aerodynamics with a huge double diffuser and an even bigger wing in the back that rises a feet or 2 in the air. It's more of a race car than sports car, a line Mclaren seems to cross without maybe even knowing. That may be the reason P1 has such extreme aerodynamics that would rival a Le Mans group C car.
12C was a bit faster than 458 but lost in all important areas. Seems like it's the same all over again.
Certain Group C cars at their peak (1991-94) had circa 4500kg of downforce at 200mph. The P1 has a peak of 600kg.
I reckon (my amateur guessing only) that perhaps the TS010 and the Eagle Toyota might've reached those kinds of downforce figures, but I do wonder whether either would reach 200mph in maximum downforce trim. Either way, I'd welcome some citation. I think the last of the Group C / GTP cars were among the most interesting race cars of all.
chevronb37 said:
I reckon only two or three GTP cars could - theoretically - develop 10,000lbs of downforce at 200mph. Of those, I don't know whether any could reach 200mph in that configuration! Certainly from a lengthy chat with the owner of the Allard J2XC, it's apparent that that car would top out at about 175mph around Daytona, where a 962, for example, could reach 200mph+ but with nothing like the downforce.
I reckon (my amateur guessing only) that perhaps the TS010 and the Eagle Toyota might've reached those kinds of downforce figures, but I do wonder whether either would reach 200mph in maximum downforce trim. Either way, I'd welcome some citation. I think the last of the Group C / GTP cars were among the most interesting race cars of all.
With this sort of stuff, of course citations aren't exactly going to grow on trees. Have a read of All American Racing's Hiro Fujimori, talking about the Mk. III Eagle - http://www.mulsannescorner.com/hfujimori.html as it's probably as close as you'll get to someone saying "here's what we had".I reckon (my amateur guessing only) that perhaps the TS010 and the Eagle Toyota might've reached those kinds of downforce figures, but I do wonder whether either would reach 200mph in maximum downforce trim. Either way, I'd welcome some citation. I think the last of the Group C / GTP cars were among the most interesting race cars of all.
There were other cars in period that had downforce figures in a similar range - you rightly mention the Allard, which is a prime example of a car which could have been very successful for want of a better engine (it was designed with a view to having quite a bit more horsepower than it ended up with from the DFR). Had that got the 3.5 V10 Honda engine it deserved, it'd likely have cleaned up in Group C. Sadly it simply pulled its own suspension apart under load at the tests it ran in, and due to lack of funds the project folded. I think they only built one.
The TS010 is often mentioned in the same articles in the same ballpark for aero numbers (9500+ lbs).
Side note: the aero guy for the Allard had a fairly decent career after this car - Indycar, then several F1 teams (including head of aero for Ferrari and McLaren). His prototype dating from 1992 would not look out of place on a grid this year, to some degree reflecting how far ahead of its time the car was in layout.
CraigyMc said:
I had a think about not replying to this (largely because there's no way to do it without it probably turning into a flame war).
I slept on it then decided just now to do so, because the doublethink you've demonstrated is stunning and is simply irritating.
Here's what I think:
If you're going to have a pop at someone over journalistic ethics, you've chosen from the wrong end of the spectrum by targetting Harris.
You should have chosen else.
You fail to mention that he's the only guy who has already written and produced videos where he's voiced an opinion on how they manupulate this stuff.
If there's a car journalist in the world who won't put up with that sort of stuff, it's Chris, as he's already demonstrated.
He's the reason why a lot of the PH contributors (me included) know to a reasonable certainty that this stuff is happening at all, rather than simply suspecting it probably is.
The problem is that everyone who worships Sir Chris of Harris STILL believes that ONLY Ferrari do this. I slept on it then decided just now to do so, because the doublethink you've demonstrated is stunning and is simply irritating.
Here's what I think:
If you're going to have a pop at someone over journalistic ethics, you've chosen from the wrong end of the spectrum by targetting Harris.
You should have chosen else.
- Someone who hasn't publically shown up a manufacturer for their way of handling journalists like Harris did.
- Someone who hasn't written and "vlogged" about how they have used tricks like particularly sticky tyres and very powerful examples of the car to demonstrate separate aspects of the cars during journalist tests.
- Someone who knows this stuff goes on and says nothing at all about it in print.
- Essentially, you should have targetted just about any other car journalist who does Ferrari tests on a regular basis.
You fail to mention that he's the only guy who has already written and produced videos where he's voiced an opinion on how they manupulate this stuff.
If there's a car journalist in the world who won't put up with that sort of stuff, it's Chris, as he's already demonstrated.
He's the reason why a lot of the PH contributors (me included) know to a reasonable certainty that this stuff is happening at all, rather than simply suspecting it probably is.
So I can quite understand why Ferrari might feel mugged off about being "outed" like this. And that they might feel a bit sensitive about whether they want him to test their products in the future.TBH His "sod off" rant above was very much like the Jalopnik article. Probably not his wisest move
DuckAvenger said:
wicker said:
There was one of these at the PH stand at the Autosport Motor Show in Birmingham this year. One word to sum it up: WOW
Nice thread-bump. p
s off.s off and leave all the friendly chat about cars to everyone else 
Glad he liked the LaFerrari, I'm a P1 fan more so but can't deny the Ferrari is a special machine!
rosino said:
For me as you say the noise could be the deciding factor.. I just know n/a noise is just something else.. and if you are buying into "emotions" like you are in this case.. then the n/a noise would win over the knowledge that the P1 has the downforce of a F1 car of the 80s (or thereabout)..
At this level they are all clearly amazingly competent machines. So selecting your favourite based upon looks and sounds is perfectly valid. I'd take the Ferrari.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff