RE: Price hike: PH Blog
Discussion
I think it's sad that so many great cars are getting priced out of being owned by the average enthusiast. I guess the knock on effect is people start looking for alternatives. I've certainly noticed a lot more enquiries about E21 323i now that a decent 2002tii will make £15k+. E30 M3 seem to be in even more demand than ever.
To think last year I took an F40 and F50 to a local fete and asked for donations from people who wanted to sit in them and have a photo taken. This year even if I were to take them (weather forecast is not too clever; gets me out of a hole!!!)They would have to be roped off and I wouldn't let anyone within 10 feet of them. Both cars have gone up in value by about £250,000 in the last 12 months.
"Judged for rarity, provenance, ability and driver appeal, it's worth double that. In fact if a 360 Challenge Stradale is heading for £200K, the Porsche is worth £300K. Where does that leave the [GT3] 4.0 RS? Somewhere north of that figure, not that I need reminding. Put it this way - if you plonked a 4.0 RS into a magazine end-of-year group test scenario and the judging criteria were based on interaction and speed, I think it would still beat all the 2014 competition."
Didn't they have / still have engine problems?! Buy one to look at perhaps
TX.
Didn't they have / still have engine problems?! Buy one to look at perhaps
TX.
You should see how the older, rarer classic cars are moving.
It is completely mental.
Old pre war Bentleys made from boxes of bits that have never shared space on a car together, fetching a million pounds. Bugattis made from bits brought together for the first time, fetching similarly big money, maybe more.
The newer stuff is a minefield, but get into older cars and it becomes a bloody nightmare.
Harris will hopefully be at the Goodwood revival again this year. The grid will be packed with cars of varying provenance, some of them claiming to be something they are not, many of them clinging to their history by having little more left of the original car than a wishbone or a rear differential, yet many of them will fetch millions at Bonhams next spring.
Its a mad, mad world.
It is completely mental.
Old pre war Bentleys made from boxes of bits that have never shared space on a car together, fetching a million pounds. Bugattis made from bits brought together for the first time, fetching similarly big money, maybe more.
The newer stuff is a minefield, but get into older cars and it becomes a bloody nightmare.
Harris will hopefully be at the Goodwood revival again this year. The grid will be packed with cars of varying provenance, some of them claiming to be something they are not, many of them clinging to their history by having little more left of the original car than a wishbone or a rear differential, yet many of them will fetch millions at Bonhams next spring.
Its a mad, mad world.
This article from back in February on the Classic and Sports Finance website kind of mirrors what CH is saying - there is still room for values to go up but the increase in values is beginning to cool.
Classic car market review - February 2014
Classic car market review - February 2014
toppstuff said:
You should see how the older, rarer classic cars are moving.
It is completely mental.
Old pre war Bentleys made from boxes of bits that have never shared space on a car together, fetching a million pounds. Bugattis made from bits brought together for the first time, fetching similarly big money, maybe more.
The newer stuff is a minefield, but get into older cars and it becomes a bloody nightmare.
Harris will hopefully be at the Goodwood revival again this year. The grid will be packed with cars of varying provenance, some of them claiming to be something they are not, many of them clinging to their history by having little more left of the original car than a wishbone or a rear differential, yet many of them will fetch millions at Bonhams next spring.
Its a mad, mad world.
This may help explain why Jaguar are now going to make the rest of the lightweight E-types they originally intended to (something like the last 6 of the originally anticipated run).It is completely mental.
Old pre war Bentleys made from boxes of bits that have never shared space on a car together, fetching a million pounds. Bugattis made from bits brought together for the first time, fetching similarly big money, maybe more.
The newer stuff is a minefield, but get into older cars and it becomes a bloody nightmare.
Harris will hopefully be at the Goodwood revival again this year. The grid will be packed with cars of varying provenance, some of them claiming to be something they are not, many of them clinging to their history by having little more left of the original car than a wishbone or a rear differential, yet many of them will fetch millions at Bonhams next spring.
Its a mad, mad world.
They apparently aren't farming the work out either - instead doing it all in-house. I'm surprised they've the skills.
If, as pistonheader, you buy a car today based on its expected value in 10 years time - all the passion of car ownership has gone out the window.
Depreciation over a few years, fair enough, but even then, you said be aiming for the car in two years you cant afford now!
Get out there and drive it for what it means to you and that excludes financially..
Depreciation over a few years, fair enough, but even then, you said be aiming for the car in two years you cant afford now!
Get out there and drive it for what it means to you and that excludes financially..
It's no different a market to wine or art or vintage watches.
Rarity and scarcity certainly play a huge role, but then there's that odd thing that it takes someone in position to spot it publicly to actually spot it.
I think it was last year that a relatively unassuming Rolex was sold at Christies. It was a manual wind, steel cased watch from an unloved and unvalued range, the Precision, that happened to be in great condition and slightly larger than is normal. It was estimated high at around £5000. It went for £91,000. Now watches that were previously ignored by the big collectors are being hoovered up and average prices have rocketed.
There's an alchemy to value and it's a mysterious combination of rarity, condition, provenance and just the simple fact that everyone else wants one.
My tip: The BMW Z3M Coupe.
Rarity and scarcity certainly play a huge role, but then there's that odd thing that it takes someone in position to spot it publicly to actually spot it.
I think it was last year that a relatively unassuming Rolex was sold at Christies. It was a manual wind, steel cased watch from an unloved and unvalued range, the Precision, that happened to be in great condition and slightly larger than is normal. It was estimated high at around £5000. It went for £91,000. Now watches that were previously ignored by the big collectors are being hoovered up and average prices have rocketed.
There's an alchemy to value and it's a mysterious combination of rarity, condition, provenance and just the simple fact that everyone else wants one.
My tip: The BMW Z3M Coupe.
corporalsparrow said:
It's no different a market to wine or art or vintage watches.
Rarity and scarcity certainly play a huge role, but then there's that odd thing that it takes someone in position to spot it publicly to actually spot it.
I think it was last year that a relatively unassuming Rolex was sold at Christies. It was a manual wind, steel cased watch from an unloved and unvalued range, the Precision, that happened to be in great condition and slightly larger than is normal. It was estimated high at around £5000. It went for £91,000. Now watches that were previously ignored by the big collectors are being hoovered up and average prices have rocketed.
There's an alchemy to value and it's a mysterious combination of rarity, condition, provenance and just the simple fact that everyone else wants one.
My tip: The BMW Z3M Coupe.
My tip: Lotus Elise.Rarity and scarcity certainly play a huge role, but then there's that odd thing that it takes someone in position to spot it publicly to actually spot it.
I think it was last year that a relatively unassuming Rolex was sold at Christies. It was a manual wind, steel cased watch from an unloved and unvalued range, the Precision, that happened to be in great condition and slightly larger than is normal. It was estimated high at around £5000. It went for £91,000. Now watches that were previously ignored by the big collectors are being hoovered up and average prices have rocketed.
There's an alchemy to value and it's a mysterious combination of rarity, condition, provenance and just the simple fact that everyone else wants one.
My tip: The BMW Z3M Coupe.
CraigyMc said:
toppstuff said:
You should see how the older, rarer classic cars are moving.
It is completely mental.
Old pre war Bentleys made from boxes of bits that have never shared space on a car together, fetching a million pounds. Bugattis made from bits brought together for the first time, fetching similarly big money, maybe more.
The newer stuff is a minefield, but get into older cars and it becomes a bloody nightmare.
Harris will hopefully be at the Goodwood revival again this year. The grid will be packed with cars of varying provenance, some of them claiming to be something they are not, many of them clinging to their history by having little more left of the original car than a wishbone or a rear differential, yet many of them will fetch millions at Bonhams next spring.
Its a mad, mad world.
This may help explain why Jaguar are now going to make the rest of the lightweight E-types they originally intended to (something like the last 6 of the originally anticipated run).It is completely mental.
Old pre war Bentleys made from boxes of bits that have never shared space on a car together, fetching a million pounds. Bugattis made from bits brought together for the first time, fetching similarly big money, maybe more.
The newer stuff is a minefield, but get into older cars and it becomes a bloody nightmare.
Harris will hopefully be at the Goodwood revival again this year. The grid will be packed with cars of varying provenance, some of them claiming to be something they are not, many of them clinging to their history by having little more left of the original car than a wishbone or a rear differential, yet many of them will fetch millions at Bonhams next spring.
Its a mad, mad world.
They apparently aren't farming the work out either - instead doing it all in-house. I'm surprised they've the skills.
Lister cars are doing it too. They are making 10 new Lister Knobblies. The originals fetch millions at auction. So the guy who owns the rights and the tooling is going to make some more..
http://listercars.com/#homepage
And a couple more to throw into the pot to fuel the debate:
Classic cars to watch in 2014
Classic car values - the economic argument
Classic cars to watch in 2014
Classic car values - the economic argument
Interest rates being low is a factor that drives the bubble true. But the point is that this only increases the fear of that bubble bursting and all, or some, the accrued money being lost. Criminally low interest rates stoke bubbles. Bubbles are bigger, bubbles burst harder. Rates staying where they are for political reasons is having insane effects - like this one. Anybody getting into the market now, to make money, needs their head examined.
Could someone please explain to me what it is with the E30 M3 that pushes prices up? I mean they made bloody 16000 of them!!!
It makes me cross that these enthusiast cars end up in the hands of collectors to be stuck in a garage for life and used as stocks and shares.
One other thing, who is it that actually starts this ridiculous price inflation? One dealer has to wake up in the morning and decide his cars are now worth 50k more than they were yesterday and the rest follow.
Maybe I'm bitter
It makes me cross that these enthusiast cars end up in the hands of collectors to be stuck in a garage for life and used as stocks and shares.
One other thing, who is it that actually starts this ridiculous price inflation? One dealer has to wake up in the morning and decide his cars are now worth 50k more than they were yesterday and the rest follow.
Maybe I'm bitter
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