RE: Harry Metcalfe talks JLR Special Ops
Discussion
M4SER said:
Whatever happens, the total build number of 250 units is set in stone.
This is the key bit for me, it would be easy to build additional units and to meet 'overwhelming demand' but by limiting it to the 250 it shows real integrity and will protect values.Aren't JLR going to make you change your username Harry?
JDMDrifter said:
I love Jaguar's modern ways and then having their own spec ops division sounds awesome. Can we please have some truly mental cars and some uber luxury ones, my suggestions. Feel free to hire me 
XFRS GT - Fully stripped 2 seater with a huge rollcage, mad power, flared arches and semi slicks
XJS - Maybe an bespoke XJR coupe to rival the new S Class Coupe ?
Love both of these ideas, keep them coming...XFRS GT - Fully stripped 2 seater with a huge rollcage, mad power, flared arches and semi slicks
XJS - Maybe an bespoke XJR coupe to rival the new S Class Coupe ?
Don't forget SVO has responsibility for developing 'special versions' for both Jaguar AND Land Rover brands. Defender, Evoque, Discovery, Range Rover Sport, Range Rover..
Hmmm........let me think of a toy box that I would have....
F-Type V8 sportswagon (low volume) like the Lynx Eventer could be cool
Land Rover could try 6 wheel drive Range Rover like they did in the 1970's and 1980's
Range Rover cabrio low volume to compete with Rolls Royce ?
Evoque with a V8 engine
F-Type V8 sportswagon (low volume) like the Lynx Eventer could be cool
Land Rover could try 6 wheel drive Range Rover like they did in the 1970's and 1980's
Range Rover cabrio low volume to compete with Rolls Royce ?
Evoque with a V8 engine
M4SER said:
JDMDrifter said:
I love Jaguar's modern ways and then having their own spec ops division sounds awesome. Can we please have some truly mental cars and some uber luxury ones, my suggestions. Feel free to hire me
XFRS GT - Fully stripped 2 seater with a huge rollcage, mad power, flared arches and semi slicks
XJS - Maybe an bespoke XJR coupe to rival the new S Class Coupe ?
Love both of these ideas, keep them coming...XFRS GT - Fully stripped 2 seater with a huge rollcage, mad power, flared arches and semi slicks
XJS - Maybe an bespoke XJR coupe to rival the new S Class Coupe ?
Don't forget SVO has responsibility for developing 'special versions' for both Jaguar AND Land Rover brands. Defender, Evoque, Discovery, Range Rover Sport, Range Rover..
With regards to Range Rover, how about one that has none of the electrical gubbins instead of being a mobile life support system for Chelsea pensioners.
The challenge Harry and his team face is that, with limited unit runs, there is limited revenue coming in from the project before it becomes loss-making.
e.g. Standard XKR-S: £97,490
Special Ops XKR-S: £160,000? (the maximum someone would be prepared to pay?)
Increase revenue per unit: £62,500
x 200(?) units = £12.5m.
That would barely buy one injection mould tool for a new front bumper.
(No money for salaries, development work, testing, time in wind tunnel, time at MIRA, parts sign off/certification etc etc, and we've not touched the interior, engine, chassis, wheels etc etc)
Of course, 'halo' projects, even if they make a loss, are good for publicity and lead-in sales, but there's only so many of them the Board will be willing to sign off on before Harry and his team will be down at the job centre!
e.g. Standard XKR-S: £97,490
Special Ops XKR-S: £160,000? (the maximum someone would be prepared to pay?)
Increase revenue per unit: £62,500
x 200(?) units = £12.5m.
That would barely buy one injection mould tool for a new front bumper.
(No money for salaries, development work, testing, time in wind tunnel, time at MIRA, parts sign off/certification etc etc, and we've not touched the interior, engine, chassis, wheels etc etc)
Of course, 'halo' projects, even if they make a loss, are good for publicity and lead-in sales, but there's only so many of them the Board will be willing to sign off on before Harry and his team will be down at the job centre!
Edited by monthefish on Thursday 3rd July 13:47
M4SER said:
Don't forget SVO has responsibility for developing 'special versions' for both Jaguar AND Land Rover brands. Defender, Evoque, Discovery, Range Rover Sport, Range Rover..
Has to be a 5.0 V8 with an Automatic box in the Defender for the run-out edition of the Defender 90, surely?Looking forward to having a good look at the RRS SVR.
monthefish said:
The challenge Harry and his team face is that, with limited unit runs, there is limited revenue coming in from the project before it becomes loss-making.
e.g. Standard XKR-S: £97,490
Special Ops XKR-S: £160,000? (the maximum someone would be prepared to pay?)
Increase revenue per unit: £62,500
x 200(?) units = £12.5m.
That would barely buy one injection mould tool for a new front bumper.
(No money for salaries, development work, testing, time in wind tunnel, time at MIRA, parts sign off/certification etc etc, and we've not touched the interior, engine, chassis, wheels etc etc)
Of course, 'halo' projects, even if they make a loss, are good for publicity and lead-in sales, but there's only so many of them the Board will be willing to sign off on before Harry and his team will be down at the job centre!
Thats right keep it positive...come on its all about getting going rather than just doing what we always did. e.g. Standard XKR-S: £97,490
Special Ops XKR-S: £160,000? (the maximum someone would be prepared to pay?)
Increase revenue per unit: £62,500
x 200(?) units = £12.5m.
That would barely buy one injection mould tool for a new front bumper.
(No money for salaries, development work, testing, time in wind tunnel, time at MIRA, parts sign off/certification etc etc, and we've not touched the interior, engine, chassis, wheels etc etc)
Of course, 'halo' projects, even if they make a loss, are good for publicity and lead-in sales, but there's only so many of them the Board will be willing to sign off on before Harry and his team will be down at the job centre!
Edited by monthefish on Thursday 3rd July 13:47
I think your £12 million for an injection moulding tool as bit over optimistic but if you are doing special vehicles then you use low volume aluminium tools and often carbon fibre parts which does keep the costs down and revenue up.
0llie said:
M4SER said:
Don't forget SVO has responsibility for developing 'special versions' for both Jaguar AND Land Rover brands. Defender, Evoque, Discovery, Range Rover Sport, Range Rover..
Has to be a 5.0 V8 with an Automatic box in the Defender for the run-out edition of the Defender 90, surely?Looking forward to having a good look at the RRS SVR.
M4SER said:
Thanks for dropping by the stand and great to hear you liked the car. If you submitted a 'Letter of Interest' on Friday am, then you should be okay. Demand for Project 7 has been overwhelming with the UK allocation provisionally filled and another 100 or so customers on a waiting list (just in the UK). We are now working through the allocation process, so expect a call from Jaguar confirming your position on the list and that you want to move to the next stage.
For anyone else interested in buying a car, there's still availability in Europe (and the Far East) for LHD cars, as well as the USA, but if demand here in the UK is anything to go by, then this may change very quickly. Whatever happens, the total build number of 250 units is set in stone.
Next stop is Classic Le Mans where the Project 7 you saw at Goodwood will be lapping the circuit in the very capable hands of Le Mans winner, Andy Wallace. I'm there from Saturday morning so if anyone here wants a guided tour round the car then please come over and say hello!
Harry, thanks for the update, that is great news and congratulations on pushing the project forward to its first successful milestone. Looking forward to the next trick...For anyone else interested in buying a car, there's still availability in Europe (and the Far East) for LHD cars, as well as the USA, but if demand here in the UK is anything to go by, then this may change very quickly. Whatever happens, the total build number of 250 units is set in stone.
Next stop is Classic Le Mans where the Project 7 you saw at Goodwood will be lapping the circuit in the very capable hands of Le Mans winner, Andy Wallace. I'm there from Saturday morning so if anyone here wants a guided tour round the car then please come over and say hello!
Edited by M4SER on Thursday 3rd July 09:11
Pistachio said:
Thats right keep it positive...come on its all about getting going rather than just doing what we always did.
I think your £12 million for an injection moulding tool as bit over optimistic but if you are doing special vehicles then you use low volume aluminium tools and often carbon fibre parts which does keep the costs down and revenue up.
I wasn't being negative - far from it!! I was just trying to 'defend' poor Harry (not that he needs it) when people like us want special editions and then baulk at the cost of them, or complain when they've only done the suspension or only got an extra 20bhp over the standard model. I'm sure you've seen these type of comments as often as I have.I think your £12 million for an injection moulding tool as bit over optimistic but if you are doing special vehicles then you use low volume aluminium tools and often carbon fibre parts which does keep the costs down and revenue up.
Yes, the bespoke route does keep tool costs down, but also pushes piece prices up, and if the piece prices shoot up, you'll be eating heavily into the £60k theoretical budget.
All I'm trying to say is it is a very difficult balance to strike, but I applaud (and, as a car 'enthusiast', am grateful for) the companies that do this.
Edited by monthefish on Thursday 3rd July 14:23
Pistachio said:
Thats right keep it positive...come on its all about getting going rather than just doing what we always did.
I think your £12 million for an injection moulding tool as bit over optimistic but if you are doing special vehicles then you use low volume aluminium tools and often carbon fibre parts which does keep the costs down and revenue up.
Both of you are right. Trick is to 'box clever' and find ways to do the impossible. Project 7 took months to reach sign-off but we got there in the end and learnt a lot along the way..I think your £12 million for an injection moulding tool as bit over optimistic but if you are doing special vehicles then you use low volume aluminium tools and often carbon fibre parts which does keep the costs down and revenue up.
In the end, it all comes down to desirability, volumes and price, in that order.
M4SER said:
Both of you are right. Trick is to 'box clever' and find ways to do the impossible. Project 7 took months to reach sign-off but we got there in the end and learnt a lot along the way..
In the end, it all comes down to desirability, volumes and price, in that order.
What are the actual rules on low volume production?In the end, it all comes down to desirability, volumes and price, in that order.
Could you, for example, fit carbs to an AJV8 unit and design front ends that will massacre children?
I've never fully appreciated what you can do under rules like SVA etc.
DonkeyApple said:
Google Zulu Defender
Fortunate enough to have driven one, and they're absolutely bonkers 
Would be great to get one from a LR dealership with warranty etc. The best Defender ever to leave the factory (IMHO) was the 50th Anniversary, complete with 4.0 V8 and Auto Box
O/T, have you a build thread of your 2 door RR?
DonkeyApple said:
Could you, for example, fit carbs to an AJV8 unit and design front ends that will massacre children?
Even if you legally could (and you can't) the product will still have to meet corporate expectations. And the JLR brand is not about massacring children so that would not be allowed internally.Low volume niche halo products in anything other than a tiny company are a nightmare! Why do you think so many OEMs just make a few mad "show cars" each year, that quickly dissapear off the radar despite people at the shows saying "yeah, we could make this" etc!
At low volumes (<1000units) tooling costs are considerable, but with soft tooling you can reduce them, but this will form the effective volume limit (ie your tools will be worn out after 250units + spares, so you can't make any more, even if you wanted too)
Max_Torque said:
DonkeyApple said:
Could you, for example, fit carbs to an AJV8 unit and design front ends that will massacre children?
Even if you legally could (and you can't) the product will still have to meet corporate expectations. And the JLR brand is not about massacring children so that would not be allowed internally.Low volume niche halo products in anything other than a tiny company are a nightmare! Why do you think so many OEMs just make a few mad "show cars" each year, that quickly dissapear off the radar despite people at the shows saying "yeah, we could make this" etc!
At low volumes (<1000units) tooling costs are considerable, but with soft tooling you can reduce them, but this will form the effective volume limit (ie your tools will be worn out after 250units + spares, so you can't make any more, even if you wanted too)
So do limited runs have to still comply to modern emissions and safety rules? That kills a lot of potential.
0llie said:
DonkeyApple said:
Google Zulu Defender
Fortunate enough to have driven one, and they're absolutely bonkers Would be great to get one from a LR dealership with warranty etc. The best Defender ever to leave the factory (IMHO) was the 50th Anniversary, complete with 4.0 V8 and Auto Box
O/T, have you a build thread of your 2 door RR?
I'll try and find it and resurrect it when the first stages of the build are under way shortly.
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