How much does a road cost?
Discussion
Super Slo Mo said:
And not to mention that the estate road is only just over half the width of the B road quoted.
Seems to me like the B road is pretty good value for money.
was going to point that out as well isn;t the standard for a new build B road 3 and a bit metres per carriageway and if it's suburban / urban you'd have 2 paths Seems to me like the B road is pretty good value for money.
mph1977 said:
was going to point that out as well isn;t the standard for a new build B road 3 and a bit metres per carriageway and if it's suburban / urban you'd have 2 paths
new build suburban/urban B road would have lighting as standard spec and likely some form of upgrade works to the main surface water system present locally. A new build "estate" road will feed into the scheme surface water system most likely SUDS so the drainage cost will be quite low due the "system" forming part the main scheme not the roads package. In fairness estate type roads built today will contain street parking bays, humps, chicanes and maybe pavers rather than SMA all adding to the cost vs new B roads.
About 15 years ago I worked for a large group - part of which was involved in building roads. I remember asking a chap at a meeting how much it would cost me to have my own private 3-lane motorway (only need it one way!) a couple of miles in length. As a ballpark figure (not a quote) he reckoned including barriers / hard shoulder / overhead gantries / rumble strips etc, it would cost me between £5m and £20m.
He did say that that figure pales into insignificance compared to big runways but the meeting started and I never found out why.
He did say that that figure pales into insignificance compared to big runways but the meeting started and I never found out why.
he states rural b road. So unless my rural b roads are different from yours, quite likely one bit of road, lines painted on, no pavement, no lights. No new drainage system required; whenever I've seen resurfacing all the drainage and ironworks are left in situ.
If everyone is ok with that costing a million pound a mile, crack on.
If everyone is ok with that costing a million pound a mile, crack on.
sleep envy said:
CoolHands said:
If everyone is ok with that costing a million pound a mile, crack on.
So where are the savings to be made? You still haven't explained how you'd reduce the costs. I'm intrigued. Its actually rather more complex than people think. For a start, you need to survey to check the land,any pipes and cables etc. Then you need to plan and build, all sorts of different techniques can be used depending on the situation. And on it goes....
The answer is a simple one, how long is a piece of string!
sleep envy said:
CoolHands said:
If everyone is ok with that costing a million pound a mile, crack on.
So where are the savings to be made? You still haven't explained how you'd reduce the costs. I'm intrigued. CoolHands said:
he states rural b road. So unless my rural b roads are different from yours, quite likely one bit of road, lines painted on, no pavement, no lights. No new drainage system required; whenever I've seen resurfacing all the drainage and ironworks are left in situ.
If everyone is ok with that costing a million pound a mile, crack on.
So you're switching your new business to resurfacing now instead of road laying? If everyone is ok with that costing a million pound a mile, crack on.
sleep envy said:
CoolHands said:
If everyone is ok with that costing a million pound a mile, crack on.
So where are the savings to be made? You still haven't explained how you'd reduce the costs. I'm intrigued. 1. the poster is a genius and can actually reduce thecosts but is keeping the method close to his chest
2. he's swallowed the 'kipper/ Freewibbler hype that if we dismantled EU 'generated' or all statute law it would mean everything could be done for a fraction of theprice it costs today
3. he hasn;t actually got a clue and like the taxpayers alliance or your common or garden powerfully built libertarian / psychopath company director just thinks that because it;s done by an LA they are price gouging the ordinary council tax payer....
A few years ago, the M25 J28 was 'improved' I just happened to see the relative planning documents in the local library. I was totally shocked at the number of 'bodies' from various organisations that had to be consulted, and the costs of their input. Off the top of my head, it amounted to about half the total sum actually spent on that junction. On paper work. Even the local badgers and butterflys got a lookin.
CoolHands said:
he states rural b road. So unless my rural b roads are different from yours, quite likely one bit of road, lines painted on, no pavement, no lights. No new drainage system required; whenever I've seen resurfacing all the drainage and ironworks are left in situ.
If everyone is ok with that costing a million pound a mile, crack on.
We're talking about building a road from scratch, not re-surfacing. If everyone is ok with that costing a million pound a mile, crack on.
You seemed ok with the estate road cost at £400 per metre, which is £643,000 per mile.
Extrapolate this to a B road, which will still be a lot wider than the estate road at 4 or so metres, it'll be at least 6.5 or 7 metres; so let's use the smaller of the numbers for the sake of argument, and you get an equivalent cost of £1,050,000 or thereabouts, per mile.
Not sure what your argument is, to be honest. According to my fag-packet maths, the rural B road is marginally cheaper than the estate road, on a roughly like for like basis.
CoolHands said:
he states rural b road. So unless my rural b roads are different from yours, quite likely one bit of road, lines painted on, no pavement, no lights. No new drainage system required; whenever I've seen resurfacing all the drainage and ironworks are left in situ.
If everyone is ok with that costing a million pound a mile, crack on.
I was referring to the new build element of his q but yes surfacing won't generally touch the drainage, new build obviously would. If everyone is ok with that costing a million pound a mile, crack on.
Asphalt is expensive, aggregate is expensive, plant and labour to construct is expensive. Site surveys, design and planning are all expensive and time consuming.
Improved scheme planning in terms of managing resources to allow the private providers to schedule the work more efficiently could lower LA costs, some LA's very pretty good at this anyway.
If the LA had a full multi year pipeline of new build schemes internalising delivery may produce savings by removing the contractors margin.
I can't honestly see any obvious item that could significantly reduce scheme costs for surfacing or new build.
Got the info below from the City of Manchester Repairs Review;
The average cost of resurfacing per m2 is £16 for roads and £23 for pavements, although this is dependent on depth of construction required.
Trying my best at maths, i think it would cost roughly £476352 to repair a 10 mile stretch. Anyone whos good at maths could probably get a more accurate (i.e. correct) answer.
The average cost of resurfacing per m2 is £16 for roads and £23 for pavements, although this is dependent on depth of construction required.
Trying my best at maths, i think it would cost roughly £476352 to repair a 10 mile stretch. Anyone whos good at maths could probably get a more accurate (i.e. correct) answer.
northwest monkey said:
About 15 years ago I worked for a large group - part of which was involved in building roads. I remember asking a chap at a meeting how much it would cost me to have my own private 3-lane motorway (only need it one way!) a couple of miles in length. As a ballpark figure (not a quote) he reckoned including barriers / hard shoulder / overhead gantries / rumble strips etc, it would cost me between £5m and £20m.
He did say that that figure pales into insignificance compared to big runways but the meeting started and I never found out why.
When they dug up one of the runways at Bentwaters it was about 8 to 10' thick and at least as wide as a motorway (in both directions). He did say that that figure pales into insignificance compared to big runways but the meeting started and I never found out why.
If anybody wants to build a racing circuit they normally start with an airfield, country park or quarry for very good reasons.
Actually a Landfill site would probably be a good starting point too as they often have concrete access roads.
Personally I prefer the quarry idea as it's lower than the surroundings so noise should be less of an issue, it's "waste" land so should be cheaper and by virtue of being a dirty great hole should have some decent elevation changes.
I'd go for Eau Rougue but also would like to see Paddock Hill, The Gooseneck and The Mountain....
Actually Oakington had the real makings of a great circuit. Shame it's not used for trackdays any more.
There's also a slightly banked corner on the A1101 heading east just north of Ely near me which rises to a roundabout onto the A10. The direction changes are epic as it goes from a fast right hander into a left then tight right followed by a slackening left. It brightens up what would be a desperately boring road...
Actually I'd through the Blackwall Tunnel in there too...
Actually I'd through the Blackwall Tunnel in there too...
There's also a slightly banked corner on the A1101 heading east just north of Ely near me which rises to a roundabout onto the A10. The direction changes are epic as it goes from a fast right hander into a left then tight right followed by a slackening left. It brightens up what would be a desperately boring road...
Actually I'd through the Blackwall Tunnel in there too (mostly because it's a tunnel with bends and elevation changes)
And the Applecross Pass in Scotland.
These days it may well be possible to digitise and 3d print your favourite road sections into the kart track.
Wow, to be a corrupt President of the European Commission. Lots of space in the Spanish interior or Eastern Europe...
Actually I'd through the Blackwall Tunnel in there too (mostly because it's a tunnel with bends and elevation changes)
And the Applecross Pass in Scotland.
These days it may well be possible to digitise and 3d print your favourite road sections into the kart track.
Wow, to be a corrupt President of the European Commission. Lots of space in the Spanish interior or Eastern Europe...
lamboman100 said:
I know someone who bought himself a nice home from the proceeds of fastfood and traffic light "incentives" 
Today I had a boring trip from Lowton to Bolton, had to do it twice, quickest route was 9.1 miles through urban areas, I counted 23 sets of lights including pelican crossings and 2 roundaboutsevery set of lights had frustrated drivers waiting, some deciding red still meant go, both roundabouts had nobody waiting and traffic flowing freely
So I do believe somebody somewhere is getting very rich out of traffic lights, they're every f
king where robinessex said:
I was totally shocked at the number of 'bodies' from various organisations that had to be consulted, and the costs of their input. Off the top of my head, it amounted to about half the total sum actually spent on that junction. On paper work. Even the local badgers and butterflys got a lookin.
+1The cost of the stuff you can see built is normally a small fraction of the total cost.
Everyone, but everyone, has to be consulted - at enormous cost - and woe
betide any project that gets an attack of the NIMBYs.
Even worse if Rentamob turn up and decide some random animal or plant species are going to suffer.
Even worserer if Stumpy and his mates dig in for the season. Think of the badger.
Of course, the sooner a new road goes in, the sooner we all benefit (imagine London
*without* the M25).
So all this footdragging by various groups costs money not just in listening
to what they have to say, but also in terms of postponing the time when we
start to benefit from the new road.
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