RE: Lotus Elise S Club Racer: Review
Discussion
threespires said:
£6,000 more than a Golf cabrio
£4,000 more than an Audi A3 diesel cabrio
£12,000 less than an Audi TT cabrio
The Elise seems good value to me.
You seem to be choosing the most expensive models for your comparison? Each of the above can be had for significantly less - especially the TT cabrio.£4,000 more than an Audi A3 diesel cabrio
£12,000 less than an Audi TT cabrio
The Elise seems good value to me.
Edited by threespires on Monday 7th July 18:17
Moospeed said:
Shame it's still as heavy as that after it's been stripped out, even before someone might spec the weight back in.
That's the same weight as an early S2 Exige or a VX220 turbo isn't it? They were quite a chunk up in weight from the originals, even with a few airbags and whatnot it's hard to see how the S3 has gained so much more to start with.
Absolutely agree.That's the same weight as an early S2 Exige or a VX220 turbo isn't it? They were quite a chunk up in weight from the originals, even with a few airbags and whatnot it's hard to see how the S3 has gained so much more to start with.
I bought my S1 new in 1998. It weighs 700kg ..... gets to 60 in around 5 seconds ...... but more importantly handles like a butterfly.
How you can expect what is essentially the same car under the skin to handle as well with the equivalent of three extra people on board is beyond me.
Forget the new incarnation ...... buy an early S1 .... have BAGS of fun ...... and watch your "investment" grow!
Just sublime ..... and still makes me smile 16 years later.
threespires said:
k-ink said:
£39k! 
£6,000 more than a Golf cabrio £4,000 more than an Audi A3 diesel cabrio
£12,000 less than an Audi TT cabrio
The Elise seems good value to me.
Edited by threespires on Monday 7th July 18:17
t value to me. But then remember walking into a Lotus dealer and buying my perfect spec new 111R for £27k. Even then it was pushing it for a go kart. Yes some years have past but the car is still 99% the same.All VAGs are over priced. So that comparison is saying nothing really.
[brave pill taken] I bought one of these earlier this year. I was looking at a second hand R but the finance packages meant the new car would cost less per month plus, as I use it as a daily driver, warranty was a bonus. I looked at Boxsters but they were massively more expensive from a finance, list price, servicing, and insurance perspective. From a driving perspective as well, the S CR has been immense. An impromptu run round the local back roads and chance encounter with an Evo FQ360 was an eye opener, as much for me as for the Evo driver. I really think this is about as fast as anything on normal twisty roads.
Bad points - not a great deal. The car has a couple of creaks over very rough roads and you need to learn the right technique for various things such as closing the engine bay cover - you need to treat it like a normal bonet and let it drop an inch. Getting in and out is also all about technique. However my brother in law is 6"2 and quite wide and he was OK. I've seen taller people drive them also and they also are fine. Re noise, yes it's a bit flat. But those who have replaced the exhaust can have difficulties hearing the radio, and there's only so much fun can be had sitting in traffic.
The positives far outweigh any negatives though and even a drive to the local shops is something to look forward to.
Choice re Club Racer vs normal S was driven by colour and styling rather than weight saving, the options differ for each. For me toxic green was just too great a pull.
Bad points - not a great deal. The car has a couple of creaks over very rough roads and you need to learn the right technique for various things such as closing the engine bay cover - you need to treat it like a normal bonet and let it drop an inch. Getting in and out is also all about technique. However my brother in law is 6"2 and quite wide and he was OK. I've seen taller people drive them also and they also are fine. Re noise, yes it's a bit flat. But those who have replaced the exhaust can have difficulties hearing the radio, and there's only so much fun can be had sitting in traffic.
The positives far outweigh any negatives though and even a drive to the local shops is something to look forward to.
Choice re Club Racer vs normal S was driven by colour and styling rather than weight saving, the options differ for each. For me toxic green was just too great a pull.
greeneggsnsam said:
Fantuzzi said:
But its lighter than the 4c, the 895kg figure that is thrown around is its dry weight. Kerb/wet, it's over 1000kg.
A good 80kg difference between them.
Pedantry time! Kerb weight of the 4C is 995kg.A good 80kg difference between them.
Is that an alfa released stat?
An Italian magazine weighed one with options - radio, a/c, and it was 1013kg. Seemed pretty heavy to me for a CF tub, I know its a wide car, but I was still surprised.
http://forums.motortrend.com/70/9523015/the-genera...
I like it but it's a shame they could not have given it 250 hp to soften the blow of loosing the high rev 1.8, i know it was unavoidable but the car as good as it is, has this image in my mind of being inferior to the one they were making 4 or 5 years ago and that's not a good place to be.
peter450 said:
I like it but it's a shame they could not have given it 250 hp to soften the blow of loosing the high rev 1.8, i know it was unavoidable but the car as good as it is, has this image in my mind of being inferior to the one they were making 4 or 5 years ago and that's not a good place to be.
I have an SC and although I see your point, I don't think more power would improve the car - 220ish is plenty in an Elise for pretty rapid road work, IMO. If you're after a track toy, maybe consider an Exige instead? I'd rather it were a bit lighter than more powerful. I used to have an early S2 and you can really feel the difference the extra 100-odd kilos makes.chelme said:
Alfa 4C = Mini Supercar
Lotus Elise = Kitcar
Dan Trent = Woefully biased... ;-)
Exactly. Even if I love the Elises and I own my car for more than 16 years I have to admit that the Alfa 4C is the superior car to the supercharged Elise S. To have your fact sheet corrected I may quote the German magazine sport-auto who just has compared hte Elise S Club Racer (even in the same colour as Dan's test car) to the Alfa 4C:Lotus Elise = Kitcar
Dan Trent = Woefully biased... ;-)
weight with full fuel tank: Alfa 1024 kg, Elise 932 kg
Acceleration Alfa 4C / Elise S CR:
0 - 100 kmh (64 mph): 5,0 sec./5,2 sec.
0 - 160 kmh (100 mph): 11,8 sec./12,3 sec.
0 - 200 kmh (125 mph): 20,3 sec./22,3 sec.
80 - 120 kmh (4th/5th/6th gear) 4,2 - 5,8 - 10,1 sec. / 5,7 - 7,7 - 9,9 sec.
80 - 160 kmh (4th/5th/6th gear) 9,3 - 12,4 - 18,8 sec./ 11,9 - 15,9 - 21,5 sec.
Laptime Hockenheim GP circuit (short track) 1:14,0 / 1:15,1 min.
v max. 258 kmh (161 mph)/234 kmh (146 mph)
The author of the story Christian Gebhardt is a long standing Lotus lover, so no chance he was biased towards the Alfa.
And to answer the simple statement that the Alfa's carbon tub only saves a few kilos Dan forgot to mention that the torsional rigidity is far superior to the Elise's aluminium chassis.
A fellow Elise driver recently said: If Ferrari were to design a mini Ferrari, This would be the car. No more words needed.
ETA: An Alfa 4C owner who has other Lotusses in his family garage (2-11, Exige V6 Cup, Elise Cup 260) said that the 4C is way faster than the Cup 260, more like the Exige V6.
I wish Lotus had the balls to cancel the Toyota contract re. the engines and fit better ones in the cars. They deserve it.
Edited by BSC on Tuesday 8th July 00:13
I WISH said:
Moospeed said:
Shame it's still as heavy as that after it's been stripped out, even before someone might spec the weight back in.
That's the same weight as an early S2 Exige or a VX220 turbo isn't it? They were quite a chunk up in weight from the originals, even with a few airbags and whatnot it's hard to see how the S3 has gained so much more to start with.
Absolutely agree.That's the same weight as an early S2 Exige or a VX220 turbo isn't it? They were quite a chunk up in weight from the originals, even with a few airbags and whatnot it's hard to see how the S3 has gained so much more to start with.
I bought my S1 new in 1998. It weighs 700kg ..... gets to 60 in around 5 seconds ...... but more importantly handles like a butterfly.
How you can expect what is essentially the same car under the skin to handle as well with the equivalent of three extra people on board is beyond me.
Forget the new incarnation ...... buy an early S1 .... have BAGS of fun ...... and watch your "investment" grow!
Just sublime ..... and still makes me smile 16 years later.
Less really is more at this end of the weights spectrum!
Frimley111R said:
Oddball RS said:
blueg33 said:
Oddball RS said:
You ever met a Salesman who has said its quiet....?
Lotus Press Release 3 July said:
Today, Group Lotus plc is pleased to announce a 31% rise in global sports car sales for the first financial quarter of 2014.
Edited by Frimley111R on Monday 7th July 16:22
ess said:
Frimley111R said:
Oddball RS said:
blueg33 said:
Oddball RS said:
You ever met a Salesman who has said its quiet....?
Lotus Press Release 3 July said:
Today, Group Lotus plc is pleased to announce a 31% rise in global sports car sales for the first financial quarter of 2014.
Edited by Frimley111R on Monday 7th July 16:22
BSC said:
chelme said:
Alfa 4C = Mini Supercar
Lotus Elise = Kitcar
Dan Trent = Woefully biased... ;-)
Exactly. Even if I love the Elises and I own my car for more than 16 years I have to admit that the Alfa 4C is the superior car to the supercharged Elise S. To have your fact sheet corrected I may quote the German magazine sport-auto who just has compared hte Elise S Club Racer (even in the same colour as Dan's test car) to the Alfa 4C:Lotus Elise = Kitcar
Dan Trent = Woefully biased... ;-)
weight with full fuel tank: Alfa 1024 kg, Elise 932 kg
Acceleration Alfa 4C / Elise S CR:
0 - 100 kmh (64 mph): 5,0 sec./5,2 sec.
0 - 160 kmh (100 mph): 11,8 sec./12,3 sec.
0 - 200 kmh (125 mph): 20,3 sec./22,3 sec.
80 - 120 kmh (4th/5th/6th gear) 4,2 - 5,8 - 10,1 sec. / 5,7 - 7,7 - 9,9 sec.
80 - 160 kmh (4th/5th/6th gear) 9,3 - 12,4 - 18,8 sec./ 11,9 - 15,9 - 21,5 sec.
I'm not sure I agree with the "superior car" bit either; that's a deeply subjective thing and whilst the 4C certainly looks impressive on paper, but from everything I've read Alfa have made a bit of a dog's dinner of the handling and controls. Also, again this is purely personal preference, I don't like the drive-train choices they made.
I certainly don't see any reason to say the 4C is "worth" any more or less money than the Elise in terms of what it actually delivers to a driver/owner. They both have their pros and cons. Obviously you've picked reviews whcih have favoured the Alfa, but there have been plenty which have come to the opposite conclusion.
ETA: If anything I think the Elise's biggest problem is that it treads too close to the Exige.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 8th July 09:02
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