RE: Honda Integra Type R (DC5): PH Heroes
Discussion
I absolutely love the Vtec Type R engines in all of it's iterations. As a daily driver, many will find them a bit tiring but every time I drive one, I find them a refreshing change to all the diesel-alike turbo cars of the modern age. There is just something exhilarating about taking a car up to 8000rpm plus, it's a shame no one wants to make these kinds of engine any more, at least at a level affordable to the normal punter.
So why not buy an older example? The problem is every Type R has more than a whiff of boy racer to it, lovely for a 20 year old, not so much for a person of my age. The only real option for me is an S2000 but they are a bit too impractical unless you buy it specifically as a weekend toy, which admittedly I am tempted to do from time to time.
So why not buy an older example? The problem is every Type R has more than a whiff of boy racer to it, lovely for a 20 year old, not so much for a person of my age. The only real option for me is an S2000 but they are a bit too impractical unless you buy it specifically as a weekend toy, which admittedly I am tempted to do from time to time.
havoc said:
I owned one for 3 years - an early, pretty-snappy '03. And initially I found it very hard to dial into - understeer was the primary state, didn't understand it, but knew there was an agile car under there from what I'd read.
So...I took it to Chris at CentreGravity, we spent a while talking about what geo I wanted, and he then dialled it in (having greased all the adjustment bolts). Dropped the camber all round, dropped the rear toe-in*, dropped the front caster. Took it for a drive and it was a revelation...even on the original S02s you could FEEL the back-end loading up under power, and you knew that if you pushed that bit harded it would go. In the next 2.5 years I had 2 or 3 tank slappers (1 was very much my fault - enthusiastic 2nd gear roundabout exit in the wet trying to get the tail out, ran a little wide onto the white paint!), but never span it.
Steering doesn't tell you a lot, I agree, but that's no different to most modern BMWs, and people don't b
h about them in the same way. The chassis DOES though, esp. when you brace it up better. So you don't drive it like a hot hatch, you drive it like an old-school rear-driver...slow in, fast out. And you use the throttle in an analogue, not a digital way (heaven help you if you ever get behind the wheel of a TVR...the S2000's a pussy in comparison)...which gives you time to feel the car loading up, at which point you stop adding more power!
(BTW - I'm not convinced the VTEC kick is enough to snap the back end out.)
* Both actually increased the propensity to oversteer, but because it then happened sooner it happened less snappily and was catchable. I'm firmly of the opinion that a lot of the S2000's rep is/was caused by cocky journos beasting it ("it's just a Honda"?) and getting bitten, and by hot hatch owners jumping out of a fwd car into an AGILE rwd car and expecting it to behave the same. Oh, and the original S02's hated standing water, which wouldn't have helped.
Interesting read but seems a lot of work, in the end. I ended up going through two RX8s in just under 6 years and loved every second of them, especially the PZ. Compketely predictable RWD fun in an old school Capri/Manta vein with no effort required to get the tail out and no vices once it was. God , I miss that car! I'll be first in line if Mazda build another!So...I took it to Chris at CentreGravity, we spent a while talking about what geo I wanted, and he then dialled it in (having greased all the adjustment bolts). Dropped the camber all round, dropped the rear toe-in*, dropped the front caster. Took it for a drive and it was a revelation...even on the original S02s you could FEEL the back-end loading up under power, and you knew that if you pushed that bit harded it would go. In the next 2.5 years I had 2 or 3 tank slappers (1 was very much my fault - enthusiastic 2nd gear roundabout exit in the wet trying to get the tail out, ran a little wide onto the white paint!), but never span it.
Steering doesn't tell you a lot, I agree, but that's no different to most modern BMWs, and people don't b
h about them in the same way. The chassis DOES though, esp. when you brace it up better. So you don't drive it like a hot hatch, you drive it like an old-school rear-driver...slow in, fast out. And you use the throttle in an analogue, not a digital way (heaven help you if you ever get behind the wheel of a TVR...the S2000's a pussy in comparison)...which gives you time to feel the car loading up, at which point you stop adding more power!(BTW - I'm not convinced the VTEC kick is enough to snap the back end out.)
* Both actually increased the propensity to oversteer, but because it then happened sooner it happened less snappily and was catchable. I'm firmly of the opinion that a lot of the S2000's rep is/was caused by cocky journos beasting it ("it's just a Honda"?) and getting bitten, and by hot hatch owners jumping out of a fwd car into an AGILE rwd car and expecting it to behave the same. Oh, and the original S02's hated standing water, which wouldn't have helped.
Guvernator said:
So why not buy an older example? The problem is every Type R has more than a whiff of boy racer to it, lovely for a 20 year old, not so much for a person of my age. The only real option for me is an S2000 but they are a bit too impractical unless you buy it specifically as a weekend toy, which admittedly I am tempted to do from time to time.
Check out the CL7 Accord. Doesn't look much different to the Type S, but gets the 220bhp, 6 cog LSD running gear from the DC5 and all round double wishbone suspension of the DC2/EK9 and fantastic Recaros from the ATR.Kozy said:
Check out the CL7 Accord. Doesn't look much different to the Type S, but gets the 220bhp, 6 cog LSD running gear from the DC5 and all round double wishbone suspension of the DC2/EK9 and fantastic Recaros from the ATR.
Didn't think the CL7 Accord Type R (Euro R?) was ever made available in the UK which means tracking one down would probably be a pain. Besides, once you get to 4 door family saloon size, I think a screaming Vtec engine starts to make less sense. 
FlavaDave said:
I said horrible in many ways... I do believe I mentioned something to do with it being "very capable". Girls did hate it tho :-)
Even in many ways? I don't know what you mean at all-the DC2 was stunning. Tough, reliable and loved a thrashing even when I sold mine a couple of months back with 120k miles.Yes, girls hate it but who honestly cares?!
Guvernator said:
Kozy said:
Check out the CL7 Accord. Doesn't look much different to the Type S, but gets the 220bhp, 6 cog LSD running gear from the DC5 and all round double wishbone suspension of the DC2/EK9 and fantastic Recaros from the ATR.
Didn't think the CL7 Accord Type R (Euro R?) was ever made available in the UK which means tracking one down would probably be a pain. Besides, once you get to 4 door family saloon size, I think a screaming Vtec engine starts to make less sense. Guvernator said:
Didn't think the CL7 Accord Type R (Euro R?) was ever made available in the UK which means tracking one down would probably be a pain.
Neither was the DC5. 
Guvernator said:
Besides, once you get to 4 door family saloon size, I think a screaming Vtec engine starts to make less sense.
As an owner of an ATR for two years now, I disagree! It's a bloody fantastic car, and I have no doubt the CL7 continues that excellence on in a way the DC5 and EP3 never managed to from the DC2 and EK9.SidewaysSi said:
FlavaDave said:
I said horrible in many ways... I do believe I mentioned something to do with it being "very capable". Girls did hate it tho :-)
Even in many ways? I don't know what you mean at all-the DC2 was stunning. Tough, reliable and loved a thrashing even when I sold mine a couple of months back with 120k miles.Yes, girls hate it but who honestly cares?!
PS. I know what I'm saying is a bit harsh, just providing a balanced view point. Things tend to get worshiped through rose tinted specs so I thought I'd add an alternative opinion :-)
sinbad666 said:
The Megane R26 and Focus RS are often seen as some of the best hot hatches of that period but I found the DC5 better than the both of them.
Here's one of mine. This one was supercharged running stage 1, 317bhp circa 1250kgs
My old ATR and friends Focus.
And my megane
My DC2
Fantastic cars!Here's one of mine. This one was supercharged running stage 1, 317bhp circa 1250kgs
My old ATR and friends Focus.
And my megane
My DC2
FlavaDave said:
SidewaysSi said:
FlavaDave said:
I said horrible in many ways... I do believe I mentioned something to do with it being "very capable". Girls did hate it tho :-)
Even in many ways? I don't know what you mean at all-the DC2 was stunning. Tough, reliable and loved a thrashing even when I sold mine a couple of months back with 120k miles.Yes, girls hate it but who honestly cares?!
PS. I know what I'm saying is a bit harsh, just providing a balanced view point. Things tend to get worshiped through rose tinted specs so I thought I'd add an alternative opinion :-)
I used it to go shopping, drive around Europe and do the odd trackday and not only did it never let me down, it was thoroughly engaging, great fun and very special. I don't think there is a car for sub £10k that gives that racecar feel.
I was thinking about replacing it with an E46 M3 at one point and remember driving to the dealer in the Honda and then taking the M3 along the same roads. The BMW was heavy, dull, boring and nowhere near as much fun.
Bloody brilliant cars IMO.
I did a piece on my driving impressions here if interested:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
FlavaDave said:
What!?
I had a DC2 and it was a horrible car in many ways. OK yes it had an LSD which, at the time, was made for a unique/interesting drive. And on a flat road in the right weather it was a very capable car. But that's where it ended for me.
It was fragile, noisy, rattly, bouncy, lacked torque, girls hated it, expensive and nearly everything bar the engine felt like it was about to break. (Queue the quote from EVO, "too raw for some"). I disagree. Too raw for Britain as a daily driver is what it should say. Apologies in advance but I swapped it for a 172 cup which made far more sense as B-road blaster/daily driver when I was under 30.
I must admit, I longed for a DC5. But the trouble was, I was about 30 by the time I could really afford one. And a DC5 as a one-size-fits-all car for me at 30+ seemed ridiculous.
Don't get me wrong - I'm a car NUT like the rest of you. However unless you can afford two cars I think you have to consider image and comfort *a bit*
And because of that, the Integras fail for me as a serious proposition. Esp now when there's so much quality metal out there for the same money!
I must have been lucky and got a good one then as Ive had it 9 years and it doesnt have a single rattle, nothing has ever broke except a rear brake caliper, has enough torque if you drive it the way it was designed, is cheap to service and maintain and I dont care if girls dont like it as Im too busy having fun on the good roads out there.I had a DC2 and it was a horrible car in many ways. OK yes it had an LSD which, at the time, was made for a unique/interesting drive. And on a flat road in the right weather it was a very capable car. But that's where it ended for me.
It was fragile, noisy, rattly, bouncy, lacked torque, girls hated it, expensive and nearly everything bar the engine felt like it was about to break. (Queue the quote from EVO, "too raw for some"). I disagree. Too raw for Britain as a daily driver is what it should say. Apologies in advance but I swapped it for a 172 cup which made far more sense as B-road blaster/daily driver when I was under 30.
I must admit, I longed for a DC5. But the trouble was, I was about 30 by the time I could really afford one. And a DC5 as a one-size-fits-all car for me at 30+ seemed ridiculous.
Don't get me wrong - I'm a car NUT like the rest of you. However unless you can afford two cars I think you have to consider image and comfort *a bit*
And because of that, the Integras fail for me as a serious proposition. Esp now when there's so much quality metal out there for the same money!
I do however have friends whom the car is not suitable for and who prefer big heavy cars with lots of low down grunt so they dont have to change gears etc and can just trundle along at speed.
I could happily own a DC5 but like the EP3 and even more so the FN2 they're just too refined and numb in comparison. Its the raw handling and aggresive engine that I love so much.
This will be a never ending argument and it all depends what type of person you are as to which car you prefer. They all do different things better than each other.
The DC2 is a horrible car...
Crap 15inch wheels
Magnolia paint
No sound deadening
Very bumpy
No passenger mirror in the sun visor.
... and the best car ive ever owned. I drove a DC5 - it felt civilised.... who wants civilised??
Every drive be it to Tesco, or round Bedford track was an event and made you smile.
It was driving at its basic best - no mods cons, and they were never missed. One day ill have another... and ill never sell it.
Still miss mine terribly ... this from someone who drives a 911 turbo.
Crap 15inch wheels
Magnolia paint
No sound deadening
Very bumpy
No passenger mirror in the sun visor.
... and the best car ive ever owned. I drove a DC5 - it felt civilised.... who wants civilised??
Every drive be it to Tesco, or round Bedford track was an event and made you smile.
It was driving at its basic best - no mods cons, and they were never missed. One day ill have another... and ill never sell it.
Still miss mine terribly ... this from someone who drives a 911 turbo.
Riyazc said:
The DC2 is a horrible car...
Crap 15inch wheels
Magnolia paint
No sound deadening
Very bumpy
No passenger mirror in the sun visor.
... and the best car ive ever owned. I drove a DC5 - it felt civilised.... who wants civilised??
Every drive be it to Tesco, or round Bedford track was an event and made you smile.
It was driving at its basic best - no mods cons, and they were never missed. One day ill have another... and ill never sell it.
Still miss mine terribly ... this from someone who drives a 911 turbo.
The number of people Ive heard say this is crazy and is the very reason Im keeping mine. In a few years it'll go into the garage only to come out on special occasions.Crap 15inch wheels
Magnolia paint
No sound deadening
Very bumpy
No passenger mirror in the sun visor.
... and the best car ive ever owned. I drove a DC5 - it felt civilised.... who wants civilised??
Every drive be it to Tesco, or round Bedford track was an event and made you smile.
It was driving at its basic best - no mods cons, and they were never missed. One day ill have another... and ill never sell it.
Still miss mine terribly ... this from someone who drives a 911 turbo.
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