Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 really soft/thin sidewalls?

[jon-]

xRIEx said:

jon- said:

Sadly sidewalls are getting softer and softer for better RR and noise label data.

Is softer better for reducing rolling resistance? I would have thought stiffer sidewalls would be.

Softer sidewalls mean less weight, which is important for rolling resistance.

[Clark3y]

AS2 are certainly very light compared to tyres with proper sidewalls in them. I put these on my old 328 which had a lot of work put into the chassis and normally ran on AD08, I felt that it ruined the car. What was pin sharp and accurate steering became loose and vague, the car wallowed around and had a really confidence sapping shimmy/squirm when driven hard over rough ground. They have very good grip, but without the crisp feel I never felt confident to press on with them, I took them off after a week and went to Bridgestone.

[xRIEx]

jon- said:

xRIEx said:

jon- said:

Sadly sidewalls are getting softer and softer for better RR and noise label data.

Is softer better for reducing rolling resistance? I would have thought stiffer sidewalls would be.

Softer sidewalls mean less weight, which is important for rolling resistance.

Ah, I see

[simonh9]

xRIEx said:

jon- said:

xRIEx said:

jon- said:

Sadly sidewalls are getting softer and softer for better RR and noise label data.

Is softer better for reducing rolling resistance? I would have thought stiffer sidewalls would be.

Softer sidewalls mean less weight, which is important for rolling resistance.

Ah, I see

The main difference is that a stiff sidewall absorbs more energy as it deflects (consider that it is constantly deflecting and returning as the wheel rotates), so the softer the sidewall, the less energy is lost. There can be a very big difference in rolling resistance between a tyre tuned for sharp handling and one for economy.

The holy grail is to achieve both, which is where the top manufacturers come in.

[tenpenceshort]

dme123 said:

Soft sidewalls seems to have been a feature of the Eagle F1 range of tyres for years and years, the old GSD3 were well known for it. I find them to be unusually progressive and friendly when you loose grip, it's possible the soft sidewall contributes to this?

I made the mistake of putting them on my 2002 CTR a few years ago. They were stunningly bad on that car, particularly tramlining over the crown of the road when overtaking. Nice compound but awful construction for that car.

[Ozzie Osmond]

kambites said:

Tire sidewall stiffness varies enormously, just take a few different tyres and try to flex the sidewalls with your hands.

...especially the dreaded runflats!

[Fox-]

Another reason why this is my favourite tyre ever. Fantastic grip wet or dry, low noise and lovely ride quality.

[iloveboost]

Ok so a higher load index/speed rating doesn't mean a stiffer tyre it just means the tyres maintain a safe pressure/heat at that pressure/speed?
I guess a stiffer than average tyre acts like a lower profile tyre than it is and a softer than average tyre acts like a higher profile tyre than it is?

[HertsBiker]

kambites said:

jon- said:

Sadly sidewalls are getting softer and softer for better RR and noise label data.

I'm not sure I agree with the "sadly" bit. With wheels getting ever heavier and sidewalls ever lower, I think they need to be getting softer for mainstream cars.

Me too! My mondeo is ruined if I run stiff walls up front, but amazing with soft walls. Currently on the factory 18s. Ridiculous size, should be 17 or 16. Automotive fashion eh?

[slipstream 1985]

its the only tyre i ran on the noble and many other did too. Seems to be a trend here of the tyre suiting high performance cars, evo's nobles, tvr's csl's but not hot hatches and the likes.

[Jurgen]

Clark3y said:

AS2 are certainly very light compared to tyres with proper sidewalls in them. I put these on my old 328 which had a lot of work put into the chassis and normally ran on AD08, I felt that it ruined the car. What was pin sharp and accurate steering became loose and vague, the car wallowed around and had a really confidence sapping shimmy/squirm when driven hard over rough ground. They have very good grip, but without the crisp feel I never felt confident to press on with them, I took them off after a week and went to Bridgestone.

That's pretty much how I feel about them, although not as strongly as you. But the difference with the AD08's much be huge! I think it's very dependant on the car. My early S2000 has very quick steering with not a lot of feel, this extra bit of vagueness around the center doesn't help with confidence. What I hate most is the slightly wallowy feeling on rough surfaces, almost feels like bad dampers on the car. However I now learned to ignore those signals and they are quite good when driven hard. Very grippy and progressive on the limit. Next time I'll try some AD08R's I think

This review seems to support my feelings about these tyres, they also complain about lack of confidence and vague steering feel: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/goodyear-e...

[jimbobsimmonds]

Jurgen said:

Clark3y said:

AS2 are certainly very light compared to tyres with proper sidewalls in them. I put these on my old 328 which had a lot of work put into the chassis and normally ran on AD08, I felt that it ruined the car. What was pin sharp and accurate steering became loose and vague, the car wallowed around and had a really confidence sapping shimmy/squirm when driven hard over rough ground. They have very good grip, but without the crisp feel I never felt confident to press on with them, I took them off after a week and went to Bridgestone.

That's pretty much how I feel about them, although not as strongly as you. But the difference with the AD08's much be huge! I think it's very dependant on the car. My early S2000 has very quick steering with not a lot of feel, this extra bit of vagueness around the center doesn't help with confidence. What I hate most is the slightly wallowy feeling on rough surfaces, almost feels like bad dampers on the car. However I now learned to ignore those signals and they are quite good when driven hard. Very grippy and progressive on the limit. Next time I'll try some AD08R's I think

This review seems to support my feelings about these tyres, they also complain about lack of confidence and vague steering feel: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/goodyear-e...

My car is nose heavy and on coilovers so is rather stiff. Coming from AD08s to the Goodyears results in the car losing some sharpness. The sidewalls are so soft the car wobbles for a couple of seconds after I shut the door; and any high speed evasive manoevers can feel a little nervous as the car is wobbling on its tyres. However, my car is very stiff so probably needs a very stiff tyre like the AD08. The grip and traction (a biggie on my car) on the Goodyears has been very good and I have yet too have any poo moments with them on.

I would buy them for any "normal" car I get, but for mine I will not be going for them next time...

[kambites]

iloveboost said:

I guess a stiffer than average tyre acts like a lower profile tyre than it is and a softer than average tyre acts like a higher profile tyre than it is?

In terms of ride quality and handling yes, except the "small wheel/stiff tyre" combination tends to be lighter than the "big wheel/soft tyre" one. Thus using soft sidewalls to compensate for big wheels is completely the wrong thing to do if you value dynamics and/or ride quality over fashion. It is, however, usually cheaper than replacing the wheels with smaller ones.

[Dakkon]

They are ok on the road, but useless on track will overheat in a couple of laps.

[kambites]

Yes, I can imagine they wouldn't be particularly good on track but in my experience none of the best road tyres are, you want completely different behaviour from a track tyre.

The best compromise between road and track seems to be something like the AD08 but they do have their limitations in both environments.

[Studio117]

I run them at the moment but I'm looking for something with a stiffer sidewall. Any recommendations available in 17 inch?

[kambites]

Studio117 said:

I run them at the moment but I'm looking for something with a stiffer sidewall. Any recommendations in 17'?

As people have said above, Michelin Pilot Sports are marginally stiffer whilst offering similar grip levels.

[jon-]

Studio117 said:

I run them at the moment but I'm looking for something with a stiffer sidewall. Any recommendations available in 17 inch?

Bridgestone. I wrote something about this actually:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Bridgestone-P...

[Studio117]

kambites said:

As people have said above, Michelin Pilot Sports are marginally stiffer whilst offering similar grip levels.

Looking on event' website the main ones available are

pirelli p zero
pirelli potenza re50
continental sport contact 5
MICHELIN PILOT PRIMACY HP

so many choices

[GravelBen]

I haven't tried the F1A2, but switched from F1 GSD3 to Bridgestone RE001/002 and they have a much stiffer/stronger sidewall without seeming to give much/anything away in other areas. Seems to fit with other comments about Bridgestones being stiffer.

I found both the GSD3 and similar Toyo T1R to be too soft for my taste (in 215/45R17), felt less precise and were much more susceptible to sidewall cuts and punctures on the loose stuff.