HOT HATCHES are amazing now. But.
Discussion
I've driven more than I can remember, but the ones that stand out as being good/great are:
306 GTi-6 - (hence why I voted it further up)
ZX 16v - slightly better handling than the 306 GTi-6 due to lower weight, but the engine's nowhere near as good.
Xsara VTS - same as 306, but feels slightly more sedate with the sound deadening and thicker pillars. Like a GTi-6 that's had a joint.....same thing, just very slightly mellower! And it doesn't look special in the slightest, whereas the 306 is a lovely looking thing (to me)
Alfa 147GTA - crazy. Not very good, but immensely likable and full of character. I'd have one like a shot and expect to get left behind in the twisties by pretty much everything else, before blatting past on the straights again!
MG ZS 180 - better than you'd believe. Thrashable V6 with brutish soundtrack, short(ish) gearing, brilliant chassis, good steering and very cheap. Only downside was the ride was insanely firm for day to day use. Sleeper value was good if you took the 180 badge off the back.
Charade GTti - that was a lot of fun. Sounded like a 911 Turbo, only better.
Renault 5 GT Turbo - completely original, too. Gigglefest and surprised how soft it was. Very comfy.
Renault Clio 172 - second choice. Loads of character again, only let down was driving position.
Saxo VTS - very sharp, very easy to change direction, engine feels gruntier than it should do.
AX GT - my favourite hot hatch, though by no means the best. Probably one of the most fun though.
Loads of others (Starlet Turbos, mk4 Astras, think I drove a 323GTi once.....can't remember what any of them were like though!) Oh, drove a Swift GTi once, that was cool. And the Punto GT, though in honesty it wasn't too great at corners.
I've driven 205 and 309 GTis around, but not with enough gusto to comment on them. They feel lively and full of feedback in normal driving though.
Never really got the Ford thing myself with the stuff I've driven, with the only real exception being a Fiesta Zetec S mk5. Not hot in the slightest (the engine is shamefully dull) but as an overall package it was great. Fiesta and Escort RS Turbos etc....all too point and squirt for me. Same with the Astra GTE, though the squirting bit was impressive!
VW I've only done a Polo G40 (briefly) and a few mk2 Golf GTis. Prefered the 8v GTi the most, but it seemed a bit too grown up, when a hot hatch should be a bit more silly. Managed to get the tail out big time on one of them though, and didn't realise they're actually quite lightweight until recently.
Yup, still the 306. You could use one everyday today and it'd do fine. Comfy, affordable, can do track days, can do countryside blasts, fairly reliable, looks nice but still discreet enough not to attract unwanted attention. Handling brilliant, engine grunty AND revvy, kudos of being one of the first 6-speeders (even if it was a gimmick) and I'm sure they'll climb in value. The Rallye certainly is.
306 GTi-6 - (hence why I voted it further up)
ZX 16v - slightly better handling than the 306 GTi-6 due to lower weight, but the engine's nowhere near as good.
Xsara VTS - same as 306, but feels slightly more sedate with the sound deadening and thicker pillars. Like a GTi-6 that's had a joint.....same thing, just very slightly mellower! And it doesn't look special in the slightest, whereas the 306 is a lovely looking thing (to me)
Alfa 147GTA - crazy. Not very good, but immensely likable and full of character. I'd have one like a shot and expect to get left behind in the twisties by pretty much everything else, before blatting past on the straights again!
MG ZS 180 - better than you'd believe. Thrashable V6 with brutish soundtrack, short(ish) gearing, brilliant chassis, good steering and very cheap. Only downside was the ride was insanely firm for day to day use. Sleeper value was good if you took the 180 badge off the back.
Charade GTti - that was a lot of fun. Sounded like a 911 Turbo, only better.
Renault 5 GT Turbo - completely original, too. Gigglefest and surprised how soft it was. Very comfy.
Renault Clio 172 - second choice. Loads of character again, only let down was driving position.
Saxo VTS - very sharp, very easy to change direction, engine feels gruntier than it should do.
AX GT - my favourite hot hatch, though by no means the best. Probably one of the most fun though.
Loads of others (Starlet Turbos, mk4 Astras, think I drove a 323GTi once.....can't remember what any of them were like though!) Oh, drove a Swift GTi once, that was cool. And the Punto GT, though in honesty it wasn't too great at corners.
I've driven 205 and 309 GTis around, but not with enough gusto to comment on them. They feel lively and full of feedback in normal driving though.
Never really got the Ford thing myself with the stuff I've driven, with the only real exception being a Fiesta Zetec S mk5. Not hot in the slightest (the engine is shamefully dull) but as an overall package it was great. Fiesta and Escort RS Turbos etc....all too point and squirt for me. Same with the Astra GTE, though the squirting bit was impressive!
VW I've only done a Polo G40 (briefly) and a few mk2 Golf GTis. Prefered the 8v GTi the most, but it seemed a bit too grown up, when a hot hatch should be a bit more silly. Managed to get the tail out big time on one of them though, and didn't realise they're actually quite lightweight until recently.
Yup, still the 306. You could use one everyday today and it'd do fine. Comfy, affordable, can do track days, can do countryside blasts, fairly reliable, looks nice but still discreet enough not to attract unwanted attention. Handling brilliant, engine grunty AND revvy, kudos of being one of the first 6-speeders (even if it was a gimmick) and I'm sure they'll climb in value. The Rallye certainly is.
s m said:
thiscocks said:
s m said:
Autocar's 93 test example weighed in at 981kg
Their 306 Gti figure was same as yours
oh ok. Will check where I got that Williams weight. Doubt it would have changed for the different phases of cars?Their 306 Gti figure was same as yours
Kitchski said:
I've driven more than I can remember, but the ones that stand out as being good/great are...
Certainly an impressive previously owned garage! I have always been tempted with a ZS 180 but cant quite make myself like the styling enough- although they are bloody good value for what is a pretty sorted saloon with a 2,5 v6.How do you compare the BX 16v engine with the ZX 16v one? I have only briefly driven the 306gti but the ZX16v seems much more mid-range focused. Very smooth power and torque but doesn't really ask to be revved.
ging84 said:
are you talking about the best performance outright, or best performance for the money, there are a generation of 300hp+ hot hatches now which sort of make comparisons to anything else fairly pointless.
But at £30k+ the cars themselves seem fair pointless as part of the appeal of a hot hatch in the past has been the affordability.
Absolutely right. But at £30k+ the cars themselves seem fair pointless as part of the appeal of a hot hatch in the past has been the affordability.
i've had 2 pug 205 1.9GTi's in my time and although they were amazing cars they would definitely not cut the mustard in todays hot hatch climate.
300bhp will be the entrance fee soon and add 4wheel drive, clever diffs, electronic driver aids, air conditioning and 19 speaker audio into the mix and anything pre 2014 starts to look a bit pathetic.
If cost isn't in the equation and its just about performance point to point i would say you'd have a tough time arguing against either an A45 AMG or a Golf R
300bhp will be the entrance fee soon and add 4wheel drive, clever diffs, electronic driver aids, air conditioning and 19 speaker audio into the mix and anything pre 2014 starts to look a bit pathetic.
If cost isn't in the equation and its just about performance point to point i would say you'd have a tough time arguing against either an A45 AMG or a Golf R
I'd have to go with a Clio Williams.
Having owned one for 7yrs I can relate to all the endless fuss about this marvellous car.
21yrs on and still raved about today In mainstream car magazines as one of the greatest hot hatches ever!
I suppose it is hard to agree or understand if you haven't ever driven one?!
Having owned one for 7yrs I can relate to all the endless fuss about this marvellous car.
21yrs on and still raved about today In mainstream car magazines as one of the greatest hot hatches ever!
I suppose it is hard to agree or understand if you haven't ever driven one?!
Matt UK said:
My choice will no doubt be controversial... But for me a hot hatch needs to be a jack of all trades, and so by definition is a master of none.
It is a one car that does it all so needs to balance fun handling, long journeys, feel, refinement, safety, family life, visual appeal, price, power, mpg, insurance, running costs and the ability to be parked anywhere etc etc.
Therefore my vote goes to the mk5 VW Golf GTI.
mk5 Gti isn't a hot hatch imho, even for its time it needs another 50hp.It is a one car that does it all so needs to balance fun handling, long journeys, feel, refinement, safety, family life, visual appeal, price, power, mpg, insurance, running costs and the ability to be parked anywhere etc etc.
Therefore my vote goes to the mk5 VW Golf GTI.
It pales to its contemporaries.
I haven't even driven a hot hatch but I always liked this video-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTTI-aMKn60#t=594
'...and I just can't help but drive this thing like a tit' is always amusing coming from an older gent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTTI-aMKn60#t=594
'...and I just can't help but drive this thing like a tit' is always amusing coming from an older gent.
Crafty_ said:
Matt UK said:
My choice will no doubt be controversial... But for me a hot hatch needs to be a jack of all trades, and so by definition is a master of none.
It is a one car that does it all so needs to balance fun handling, long journeys, feel, refinement, safety, family life, visual appeal, price, power, mpg, insurance, running costs and the ability to be parked anywhere etc etc.
Therefore my vote goes to the mk5 VW Golf GTI.
mk5 Gti isn't a hot hatch imho, even for its time it needs another 50hp.It is a one car that does it all so needs to balance fun handling, long journeys, feel, refinement, safety, family life, visual appeal, price, power, mpg, insurance, running costs and the ability to be parked anywhere etc etc.
Therefore my vote goes to the mk5 VW Golf GTI.
It pales to its contemporaries.
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